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Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: 808CUDA] #685563
07/18/10 09:34 PM
07/18/10 09:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
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There are two different big block Milodon water pumps I think- any idea which part# is better for a street car?
I have a 440source water pump, I would rather TRY a Milodon and make sure the pump I have isn't a factor- my Mr Gasket high flow stat sure was..... I want to compare water pumps next....


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: 808CUDA] #685564
07/18/10 09:40 PM
07/18/10 09:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
RyanJ Offline
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State College, PA
Interesting reading....

I put a new 440Source pump & Housing on my 600 HP 440 in my Daily Driver '68 RR last year because I am cheap LOL Never really spent too much time looking @ either piece... only issue I ran into is the pump impeller is VERY tight to the housing, so tight that with no gasket they touch... the thickness of the water pump gasket IS the clearance between the impeller & the housing...

Have to say this motor probably runs cooler than any I've ever built. 160 T stat & it will sit on 160-165 on any "normal day" I just drive it 120+ miles to track & back couple weeks ago on a 94 degree Saturday... Climbing 7 mountains here in PA on 322 (very long very gruelling mountain climb) I never saw over 174 degrees. This is alum head (INDY EZ's) with killer big Alum rad & high flow mechanical fan...

It will climb to about 180 if you sit @ stop light for 2-3 minutes in high heat day.. so the low speed flow is not worlds greatest, as some have mentioned. If I was really concerned about that I'd put an electric pump on it, which has constant flow rate... as soon as you start moving again & RPM's come up above 2000, temp comes right back down into the 160's. If you are really concerned about high temps sitting @ a light or in heavy traffic, pop it into neutral or push in clutch & rev motor a few times, helps circulate water, & will keep temps lower...

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #685565
07/19/10 11:20 AM
07/19/10 11:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,675
Mt. Eden Ky.
Hemi Allstate Offline
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Mt. Eden Ky.
Quote:

There are two different big block Milodon water pumps I think- any idea which part# is better for a street car?
I have a 440source water pump, I would rather TRY a Milodon and make sure the pump I have isn't a factor- my Mr Gasket high flow stat sure was..... I want to compare water pumps next....




What were your issues with the MR Gasket stat?
I am using the Source pump and housing on the 472 Hemi in the 69 RR I am working on. I will see if it is a problem on this one. It has a 26" Afco custom radiator.
This was my engine, and is similar to yours, minus the ultra cool induction you have!
Is this the Milodon pump to use?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts.aspx?sku=MIL-16260

Mark


http://marsh-racing.com/Mark%20Mahorney-Allstate.htm
1996 Ram 1500 Sport
1968 road runner
1952 Sears Allstate licensed, pump gas, Hemi 5.98 @ 115.73 1.33 60 ft. The best is yet to come. Painless Performance / Street RODDER magazine Top 100 for 2019
Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: Hemi Allstate] #685566
07/19/10 05:54 PM
07/19/10 05:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here
CrAzYMoPaRGuY  Offline
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Posts: 16,452
Canada
Quote:

Quote:

There are two different big block Milodon water pumps I think- any idea which part# is better for a street car?
I have a 440source water pump, I would rather TRY a Milodon and make sure the pump I have isn't a factor- my Mr Gasket high flow stat sure was..... I want to compare water pumps next....




What were your issues with the MR Gasket stat?
I am using the Source pump and housing on the 472 Hemi in the 69 RR I am working on. I will see if it is a problem on this one. It has a 26" Afco custom radiator.
This was my engine, and is similar to yours, minus the ultra cool induction you have!
Is this the Milodon pump to use?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts.aspx?sku=MIL-16260

Mark




I put it in another thread Mark.... but I was thinking my Jensen was running warm. I eventually found a little coolant seepage coming from my thermostat gasket, so I bought a new gasket.... AND a Stant 160 degree thermostat.
I tossed both the Mr Gasket 160 high flow stat and the Stant 160 stat into a pot filled with water, then added heat.
The Stant stat started opening at 165 degrees, it was fully open by 170 degrees.
The Mr Gasket 160 high flow stat started opening at.... well.... the water got to 210 degrees and the stat NEVER opened!!!!! I tried it a few times!

I heard a ton of bad things about them here and there on the internet but always thought it was probably some other problem, that kinda thing...
Now I'm gonna stay away from the Mr Gasket high flow stats!!!!

I have a 440source pump on my Jensen, I just HAVE to try a Milodon to see if it makes a difference.
I'm trying to get a 16260 as we speak!


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #685567
07/19/10 07:08 PM
07/19/10 07:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186
Wherever I am.
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Junky Offline
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Aren't all the "high flow" thermostats (like Mr. Gasket) made by Robert Shaw?


2010 Black Challenger SE <> 3.5 V6
Custom Shift Knobs www.flameball.com Check It Out
Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: Junky] #685568
07/19/10 07:35 PM
07/19/10 07:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here
CrAzYMoPaRGuY  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
Quote:

Aren't all the "high flow" thermostats (like Mr. Gasket) made by Robert Shaw?




I'm not sure. I still have my less than stellar one, I could take a photo?

I couldn't find a Milodon 16260 on short notice, I ended up grabbing an Edelbrock 8814 pump so I'll have to see if there is a difference over the 440source pump......


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #685569
07/19/10 09:21 PM
07/19/10 09:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,675
Mt. Eden Ky.
Hemi Allstate Offline
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Mt. Eden Ky.
Quote:

Quote:

Aren't all the "high flow" thermostats (like Mr. Gasket) made by Robert Shaw?




I'm not sure. I still have my less than stellar one, I could take a photo?

I couldn't find a Milodon 16260 on short notice, I ended up grabbing an Edelbrock 8814 pump so I'll have to see if there is a difference over the 440source pump......





Do you know if the same problem holds true for the Milodon high flow t-stat? I have purchase two of them for projects. I also put one in a friends blown 360 Dart, that runs a bit too hot!


http://marsh-racing.com/Mark%20Mahorney-Allstate.htm
1996 Ram 1500 Sport
1968 road runner
1952 Sears Allstate licensed, pump gas, Hemi 5.98 @ 115.73 1.33 60 ft. The best is yet to come. Painless Performance / Street RODDER magazine Top 100 for 2019
Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: Hemi Allstate] #685570
07/19/10 10:50 PM
07/19/10 10:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here
CrAzYMoPaRGuY  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Aren't all the "high flow" thermostats (like Mr. Gasket) made by Robert Shaw?




I'm not sure. I still have my less than stellar one, I could take a photo?

I couldn't find a Milodon 16260 on short notice, I ended up grabbing an Edelbrock 8814 pump so I'll have to see if there is a difference over the 440source pump......





Do you know if the same problem holds true for the Milodon high flow t-stat? I have purchase two of them for projects. I also put one in a friends blown 360 Dart, that runs a bit too hot!




I looked at both in pictures, they sure look the same but I can't say either way with certainty.
I'll take a few pics and post them later.... I have heard many things bad about the Mr Gasket high flows but always took the posts with a grain of salt. BUT.... it still bothered the back of my mind....
I am now pulling off my 440Source pump. I don't BELIEVE it isn't doing it's job, but I will straight swap the pump to my brand new Edelbrock 8814 and report back if there ARE any changes whatsoever....
I don't mind experimenting, and I want my car running with NO heat issues whatsoever. I don't care WHAT it takes to get there!
I want my coolant to be cooooool while I'm driving so I can pay more attention to my Lucas wiring going up in smoke.


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #685571
07/19/10 11:04 PM
07/19/10 11:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
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SoooOoooooo...........

Take a guess which one is the freshly removed 44source pump, and which is the Edelbrock 8814.

It's now going in, no idea what to expect, but the differences are easy to see with a casual glance IMO......?

6095099-pumps.jpg (147 downloads)

CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #685572
07/19/10 11:12 PM
07/19/10 11:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing Offline
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Northern Indiana
Sorry I did not catch this on here to warn you,butI took the Edelbrock pump off of my 440 in my dually.It was running hotter than I cared for.The previous owner had put this on it,and had a hi-dollar Griffin radiator,shroud,etc.I compared the Edelbrock pump to a 440 Source pump and they are as close of exact copies as you could get.I assume the Edelbrock design is what they were trying to copy.
Anyway,I went with a flow cooler pump and dropped 20+ degrees from this thing compared to the Edelbrock pump.
Save yourself the trouble,the expensive Edelbrock pump sucks too.

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: Dunnuck Racing] #685573
07/19/10 11:55 PM
07/19/10 11:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here
CrAzYMoPaRGuY  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
Quote:

Sorry I did not catch this on here to warn you,butI took the Edelbrock pump off of my 440 in my dually.It was running hotter than I cared for.The previous owner had put this on it,and had a hi-dollar Griffin radiator,shroud,etc.I compared the Edelbrock pump to a 440 Source pump and they are as close of exact copies as you could get.I assume the Edelbrock design is what they were trying to copy.
Anyway,I went with a flow cooler pump and dropped 20+ degrees from this thing compared to the Edelbrock pump.
Save yourself the trouble,the expensive Edelbrock pump sucks too.




That's an Edelbrock beside a 440source pump right above in the pic. They are different just from a glance IMO. The Edelbrock impeller wheel is a much larger diameter..

And I've heard a few complaints about the FlowKoolers falling apart, maybe somebody else could chime in, but I was going to run a FlowKooler on my Coupe and got several bad feedbacks on them!

Are ANY of them good?
Makes me think a stock factory waterpump is worth looking at....?


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: Dougsmopars] #685574
07/20/10 12:08 AM
07/20/10 12:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,473
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12 Offline
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N.E. OHIO, USA
IT'S THE CAM!!!!!!


Quote:

My 440 ran 190 on hottest days. Installed new cam,Installed new cam, Installed new cam,Installed new cam, and went to 440 source water pump housing and pump. Car runs hot now and summer hasn't started. Will adding electric fan help or do i have to dump the 440 source parts?




Which cam did you install when you started having over heating problems? I guess that's where the term "just installed a HOT cam" came from You've done everything but change the cam or did I miss that part?

Just my but I'm betting the cam is the "source" of all of your high temp problems.


MikeR

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: A12] #685575
07/20/10 12:52 AM
07/20/10 12:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,537
PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
superwrench Offline
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PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
Well....you guys got me to thinking about my overheating problem now!!!
I changed over from a MP viscous drive fan to the HHR electric fan about 4 months ago.
I then noticed that the car was not cooling down as it normally would,and the lower rad hose was always quite cool where as the top hose was singin' hot. The fan wanted to run almost continuously.
So....this thread got the best of me so I took out the Source pump tonite and put in a MP aluminum one.
Result......the car will sit and idle now with the fan cutting in and out at about 185*....just over the stat temp of 180. It hasn't done that for months!!!
I'm sort of thinking that the curved vane design is not as good as the old "paddle wheel" set up on the Mopar pump and it wasn't pumping as hard. What d'ya think???
I'll find out this Friday at our Outlaw Shootout because it's been pretty hot lately and once I get down to the last few cars, the hotlapping usually takes it toll.
Lets hope.....

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: superwrench] #685576
07/20/10 03:27 PM
07/20/10 03:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,888
Athens, Greece
Pyper70 Offline
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Athens, Greece
On the recommendation of a few here...I sold my 440 Source housing and pump on Ebay....I just didnt wanna be a statistic. I will be ordering a brand new one from Mazzolini. Even Mazz said that the 440 stuff is hit or miss...usually a miss....I just hope those Rods and crank hold together.

I still have the stock Cast Iron on my block, runs 210 on a summer day when it is 85*F outside...I am doing house renovations this summer so working on the cooling system will be a Winter job and probably won't have any news til then


Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #685577
07/20/10 03:40 PM
07/20/10 03:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,888
Athens, Greece
Pyper70 Offline
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Pyper70  Offline
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Quote:



so I bought a new gasket.... AND a Stant 160 degree thermostat.
I tossed both the Mr Gasket 160 high flow stat and the Stant 160 stat into a pot filled with water, then added heat.
The Stant stat started opening at 165 degrees, it was fully open by 170 degrees.
The Mr Gasket 160 high flow stat started opening at.... well.... the water got to 210 degrees and the stat NEVER opened!!!!! I tried it a few times!






I think I was one of the you took with a grain of salt. I was getting a bad overheating problem and I yanked the 160*F Mr. Gasket T-Stat out and tested it. I started opening at 195*F. I chucked it in a box. I installed the smaller throat 160*F Stant but the Premium one from Napa. It started opening at 155 and full open by 168*F.

On my last visit to the States I went looking for Mopar 160*F / 180*F T-Stats from Mr. G....Nothing....Special Order...I guess no one wants to carry them anymore. All I could find was Ford and GM. I won't buy another Mr. G T-Stat again.

I actually used 2 thermocouples in my testing of the T-Stats. My readings were accurate. My heat source was controlled, elevated 1 degree every 30 seconds for the first 100 and then 1/2 degree per minute degree the last 100.

Amazing how the 40 yr old design still outperforms the new design and still costs $4 compared to $10 (not to mention all the other damage you are inflicting on your system)


Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: JohnRR] #685578
07/20/10 05:37 PM
07/20/10 05:37 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,295
dark side of the moon
D
Dougsmopars Offline OP
top fuel
Dougsmopars  Offline OP
top fuel
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,295
dark side of the moon
Why buy a used houseing sight unseen when i could go online and get a brand new delivered in 2 days? I'm not restoring a 100 point show car. Who cares if the houseing is aluminum? It works and car is on the road. If someone local had one i would have gotten it. Buying used it would have taken weeks to post wait for reply. get pics then wait for delivery. New on line was at my house in 2 days.

Re: Running hot with 440 source housing and pump [Re: 808CUDA] #685579
07/20/10 08:07 PM
07/20/10 08:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 733
Long Island NY
yellow sixpack Offline
super stock
yellow sixpack  Offline
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Posts: 733
Long Island NY
Anything they sell is
And there shipping charges are threw the roof.
I would never buy anything from them again.


If you can't be smart.....don't be stupid!
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