727 Quest. 2nd to 3rd shifts late. Semi-long
#677743
04/22/10 09:50 PM
04/22/10 09:50 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,377 Tennessee
WyleECoyote
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Place it in drive. Accelerate; 1st to 2nd shifts at about 35/40 mph. 2nd to 3rd shifts at 65 mph. It really labors and hangs until you hit 65. Okay - so lets go back to 1995... I rebuilt a 727 for a 440, 10:1, .550 roller. I used an article from one of the Mopar Mags; Valve body: threw out some of the check balls and drilled out a hole here and there a little larger. Accumulator Spring: I'm pretty sure I tossed it. Line Pressure: I remember the article had me make a gauge out of cardboard and adjust the spacing to the gauge. Torque Converter: 2500 stall. This drive train never made it into my Road Runner; job change forced me to throw it in my 84 Crew Cab Dually with 4.10 rearend, to get from Utah to Tennessee. WHAT A BLAST OF A ROAD TRIP THAT WAS!!! Transmission worked great for running it hard. Fast Forward to 2010: I never drove the truck after I got here. Now I'm at a point where I'm ready to play with the truck and drive it. I pulled out the built 440 and put in a bone stock 72 440 and a stock torque converter. Finally - the question: Of the 3 mods I did; valve body, accumulator spring, line pressue - which one mod, or combination there of, makes the late shifting point from 2nd to 3rd at 65 mph? I'd love for the 2nd to 3rd shift point to be lower - like around 50 or 55. Thanks in advance for the inputs!
Wile E. Coyote Super Genius, Lover of FCA US LLC Products ************* 68 Road Runner (440 4-spd), 71 Superbee (383 slap), 71 Charger 500 (383 4-spd wA/C 1of 182), 72 Imperial, 74 Charger SE (440 sunroof), 84 D350 Crew-cab Dually (440), 75 D300 Dually Tandem (318 4-speed)
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UPDATE: Re: 727 Quest. 2nd to 3rd shifts late.
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#677749
04/29/10 09:26 PM
04/29/10 09:26 PM
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Posts: 1,377 Tennessee
WyleECoyote
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So "yesterday" finally came and I played around with the truck... I undid the kickdown linkage and tied it forward. Went for a drive and it shifted GREAT! 2nd to 3rd happened repeatedly at 46 mph! The shifts were firm (nice) but both 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd happened at what seemed like "normal" speeds. So now, to I reconnect the kickdown and keep drilling holes in it to shorten its travel???
Wile E. Coyote Super Genius, Lover of FCA US LLC Products ************* 68 Road Runner (440 4-spd), 71 Superbee (383 slap), 71 Charger 500 (383 4-spd wA/C 1of 182), 72 Imperial, 74 Charger SE (440 sunroof), 84 D350 Crew-cab Dually (440), 75 D300 Dually Tandem (318 4-speed)
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Re: UPDATE: Re: 727 Quest. 2nd to 3rd shifts late.
[Re: WyleECoyote]
#677750
04/30/10 01:50 PM
04/30/10 01:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,747 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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I'll ask again, how much throttle are you using to get those shifts?
If it's light throttle the shifts are way too late for having the lever tied full forward. With the lever full forward and light throttle you should be in top gear at 20 mph or less.
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Re: UPDATE: Re: 727 Quest. 2nd to 3rd shifts late.
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#677751
04/30/10 08:51 PM
04/30/10 08:51 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,377 Tennessee
WyleECoyote
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Sorry John - I missed your question earlier. Yes, its a light throttle - I'm just trying to drive it like an old man and its shifting from 2nd to 3rd that late. I had no idea it should be into 3rd by 20. Its been so long since I've driven one of my un-altered cars that I'd forgotten what the shift feels like....
Wile E. Coyote Super Genius, Lover of FCA US LLC Products ************* 68 Road Runner (440 4-spd), 71 Superbee (383 slap), 71 Charger 500 (383 4-spd wA/C 1of 182), 72 Imperial, 74 Charger SE (440 sunroof), 84 D350 Crew-cab Dually (440), 75 D300 Dually Tandem (318 4-speed)
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Re: UPDATE: Re: 727 Quest. 2nd to 3rd shifts late.
[Re: WyleECoyote]
#677752
05/01/10 05:29 PM
05/01/10 05:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,747 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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If it's shifting that late at light throttle with the linkage off there's something wrong inside. If you move the TP lever to the rear by hand is there some free travel before you feel spring resistance?
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Re: UPDATE: Re: 727 Quest. 2nd to 3rd shifts late.
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#677753
05/02/10 08:22 PM
05/02/10 08:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,377 Tennessee
WyleECoyote
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John - no, there is no free travel before there is spring pressure. It is immediate. As soon as I push back on it - there is spring pressure. What's all this mean?
Thanks a ton so far!!!
Ron
Wile E. Coyote Super Genius, Lover of FCA US LLC Products ************* 68 Road Runner (440 4-spd), 71 Superbee (383 slap), 71 Charger 500 (383 4-spd wA/C 1of 182), 72 Imperial, 74 Charger SE (440 sunroof), 84 D350 Crew-cab Dually (440), 75 D300 Dually Tandem (318 4-speed)
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Re: UPDATE: Re: 727 Quest. 2nd to 3rd shifts late.
[Re: WyleECoyote]
#677754
05/03/10 05:08 PM
05/03/10 05:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,747 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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It means there is no free play between the kickdown valve and the throttle lever cam as there should be. With the valve depressed at idle the trans thinks you're giving it lots of throttle as soon as you take off and that's what's delaying the shifts.
You need to remove the VB for a look see.
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Re: UPDATE: Re: 727 Quest. 2nd to 3rd shifts late.
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#677755
05/03/10 09:13 PM
05/03/10 09:13 PM
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WyleECoyote
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Okie dokie - time to break out my factory service manual and get re-familiarized with these parts of which you speak... Then - Thanks John - I really appreciate this. I'll send you your beverage of choice when we're done! It might be a week or two before I get this task on the wife's docket - but I'll be sure to update all. Thanks John and Moparts!
Wile E. Coyote Super Genius, Lover of FCA US LLC Products ************* 68 Road Runner (440 4-spd), 71 Superbee (383 slap), 71 Charger 500 (383 4-spd wA/C 1of 182), 72 Imperial, 74 Charger SE (440 sunroof), 84 D350 Crew-cab Dually (440), 75 D300 Dually Tandem (318 4-speed)
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Re: UPDATE: Re: 727 Quest. 2nd to 3rd shifts late.
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#677756
05/17/10 09:10 PM
05/17/10 09:10 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,377 Tennessee
WyleECoyote
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John - (and others) As I thought about your comments, I decided to look further into the kickdown linkage adjustments. Crawl under the truck with me and go to the kickdown lever on the trans: the rod that comes down from the engine has a "slide-adjustment" block bolted to the rod with a spring behind it. Well it was adjusted "OUT" towards the rear of the truck. This had the kickdown lever on the trans engaged by about 1.5 inches. I undid the rod/block and the kickdown lever sprung forward towards the radiator. As I examined it, it had the free travel you mentioned before it had spring tension. I removed the spring from the rod and slid the block forward and that allowed it to align with the kickdown lever when it was forward. I now have a 1st to 2nd shift at about 18 and a 2nd to 3rd at about 30. Considering the 4.10 gears, I think this is a good shift point. It feels a little "long/late" compared to my Superbee, but I'm guessing it [the Bee] has 2.91 gears or so. All in all, thanks to you and others, I've brought the shift point !WAY! down! I think I'm pretty satisfied at this point... Unless you think it can still come down some??? Thanks again everyone!! Ron
Wile E. Coyote Super Genius, Lover of FCA US LLC Products ************* 68 Road Runner (440 4-spd), 71 Superbee (383 slap), 71 Charger 500 (383 4-spd wA/C 1of 182), 72 Imperial, 74 Charger SE (440 sunroof), 84 D350 Crew-cab Dually (440), 75 D300 Dually Tandem (318 4-speed)
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Re: UPDATE: Re: 727 Quest. 2nd to 3rd shifts late.
[Re: WyleECoyote]
#677757
05/18/10 02:50 PM
05/18/10 02:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,747 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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That's still a little late especially with 4.10 gears but if it's OK with you leave it as is.
The correect adjustment procedure for that type of linkage is to loosen the adjustment bolt so that the rod slides freely through the swivel, then push both the rod and transmission lever full forward and then tighten the bolt. Be sure the carb is at warm idle setting with the choke full open.
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