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Re: Timing sprocket marks [Re: RobX4406] #67291
06/04/08 03:43 PM
06/04/08 03:43 PM

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I've never understood why guys won't take the extra 10 minutes and the effort needed to degree in the cam!

I'm not going to let "Bubba" mis-stamping my set ruin MY engine!

My .528 MP cam and Cloyes true roller was 8* retarded despite being installed in the "straight up" postion. Good thing I checked, huh?

Re: Timing sprocket marks #67292
06/04/08 04:02 PM
06/04/08 04:02 PM
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Well I guess it's good you checked then. If I were to install a new cam I would degree it or have someone do it for me. I was merely wanting to do
a "spot check" on mine. Ran good prior to the cam bolt coming loose.

Looks like all the major cam players have easy instructions online to do it.

Re: Timing sprocket marks [Re: Dart 340] #67293
06/04/08 05:14 PM
06/04/08 05:14 PM
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i did read the instrutions. they made no sense. it said use the dot for straght up and use the +4 if you want to advance it and so on. but i couldn't see the speck or the +4 as in the pic.
again i would have dailed it in except that had already been done. i just redid the bottom end. it should have the big mark that is most important by the tooth and the speck by the keyway as this cloyes set. notice they even shaped the keyway like the mark so u would know which keyway to use.

4467703-cloyes.jpg (24 downloads)

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Re: Timing sprocket marks [Re: 65cuda] #67294
06/04/08 05:48 PM
06/04/08 05:48 PM

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Quote:

again i would have dailed it in except that had already been done. i just redid the bottom end. it should have the big mark that is most important by the tooth and the speck by the keyway as this cloyes set.




again, how could it be dialed in if you're changing the timing chain?!

Having "that mark here" and "this mark there" really doesn't mean anything in the broad scheme of things. It's up to you to check out their accuracy. Usually the dot means straight up, triagle means 4* advanced and square means 4 degrees retarded.

I'll be honest, I don't own a cam degree kit but a friend does and we use it on EVERY cam I install anymore. Stock or not, marked or unmarked, sugar coated or whole wheat!

Mancini doesn't owe you a dime.

Re: Timing sprocket marks [Re: Dart 340] #67295
06/04/08 11:37 PM
06/04/08 11:37 PM
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So I put this thing back together after the cam bolt coming loose. Now I need to be quite clear that I only slid the gears back enough to put a new key in and that was it. The gears and chain did not come
off the car, and were not rotated.

So everything is back together and my timing (with a light) advanced like 15 degrees and the damn thing is knocking and detonating. Put some
octane booster in and it did help. Also spun this disty so I am at 15 before and it seems better.

Question is how did the timing change? and second,
now I'm a little nervous about cam timing. I found my degree wheel. Thinking it fits very nice inside the crank pulley. Maybe I can make a mark on the pulley for tdc and how it relates to the wheel, and do a degree in check like that just to be certain the dang thing is close. Not sure whats going on.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Doug

Re: Timing sprocket marks [Re: Dart 340] #67296
06/05/08 09:11 AM
06/05/08 09:11 AM
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was the keyway wollered out? but even with that it shouldn't change that much. offset keys would move it more than that could. did u compare your marks to my right and wrong pics. i think at this point i would try the degree wheel. we know what happens if it is too far off.


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Re: Timing sprocket marks [Re: 65cuda] #67297
06/05/08 09:19 AM
06/05/08 09:19 AM
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Quote:

was the keyway wollered out? but even with that it shouldn't change that much. offset keys would move it more than that could. did u compare your marks to my right and wrong pics. i think at this point i would try the degree wheel. we know what happens if it is too far off.




I do know he had a .156 wide key in it, and I fit a
.188 key in there. It seems like the wider key was a very good fit. So either it was widened out, or he used the wrong one in the first place, which would explain why the pump eccentric rounded it off etc. So yes, I guess it could be off .030 from what it was.

I think I will try the degree wheel in the crank pulley as it fits perfect. Maybe hold it with some magnets etc and see where the cam CL come in at. At least I can discard it as a problem or verify I have to tear something back down.

Re: Timing sprocket marks [Re: 65cuda] #67298
06/05/08 09:33 AM
06/05/08 09:33 AM
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Hey Doug, where in WI are you? I'm around Menomonee Falls. Maybe I can lend a hand?

Eric

Re: Timing sprocket marks [Re: 79powerwagon] #67299
06/05/08 09:40 AM
06/05/08 09:40 AM
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Quote:

Hey Doug, where in WI are you? I'm around Menomonee Falls. Maybe I can lend a hand?

Eric




Eric,

I'm up by Hudson (Near twin cities) I think you are
by Milwaukee is that correct?

Re: Timing sprocket marks [Re: Dart 340] #67300
06/05/08 09:40 AM
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i think thats a good ideal. to me it doesn't explane how your timing got off so much. but on the other hand they are related. one tooth on the crank gear being 17 degrees. when they cut those +-4 keyways they are just a fraction of a tooth different. i am not smart enough to work backwards to figure out the .000 to degrees and see if .030 would put you off that much.


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Re: Timing sprocket marks [Re: Dart 340] #67301
06/05/08 09:46 AM
06/05/08 09:46 AM
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Yup Doug. Too far to lend a casual hand! Oh well, there are other members nearer to you, maybe they can chime in and give assistance! Sometimes it only takes a second set of eyes to see the obvious that you may have over-looked. I had a friend gawking at my 440 when I first installed it, and he noticed I had the plug wires on wrong, even after going through them 3 times myself!

Hey, it happens!

Re: Timing sprocket marks [Re: 79powerwagon] #67302
06/05/08 09:52 AM
06/05/08 09:52 AM
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Thanks for the offer. My dad is visiting this weekend I'll have him take a look too. He worked for
chrysler for 32 years. At 70 he's forgotten more than I know about mopars!

I'll let you know what I find.

thanks!

Re: Timing sprocket marks [Re: 65cuda] #67303
06/05/08 09:54 AM
06/05/08 09:54 AM
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Quote:

i think thats a good ideal. to me it doesn't explane how your timing got off so much. but on the other hand they are related. one tooth on the crank gear being 17 degrees. when they cut those +-4 keyways they are just a fraction of a tooth different. i am not smart enough to work backwards to figure out the .000 to degrees and see if .030 would put you off that much.




I'm thinking if I have to tear this down again, I might change this big monster loper to something more streetable too.

Re: Timing sprocket marks [Re: 79powerwagon] #67304
06/05/08 09:55 AM
06/05/08 09:55 AM
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Quote:

Yup Doug. Too far to lend a casual hand! Oh well, there are other members nearer to you, maybe they can chime in and give assistance! Sometimes it only takes a second set of eyes to see the obvious that you may have over-looked. I had a friend gawking at my 440 when I first installed it, and he noticed I had the plug wires on wrong, even after going through them 3 times myself!

Hey, it happens!




Eric, you may have seen this car in the past. The guy I bought it from lived in Union Grove and used to run it at the strip there... little more street friendly now though.

Re: Timing sprocket marks [Re: Dart 340] #67305
06/05/08 10:00 AM
06/05/08 10:00 AM
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yes an exta set of mopar eyes could be invaulable


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Re: Timing sprocket marks [Re: 65cuda] #67306
06/06/08 02:55 PM
06/06/08 02:55 PM
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So I have this thing all together and now I have a
pretty scary knock only when the engine is cold. Sounds like a hard hammering best I can tell on the top end, but after a few minutes of idling it goes away and doesn't come back until the engine is cold again. I have rev'd it up over 4000 no problems once it's warm. Could it be a bad lifter or 2 or maybe I need to set preload again?

Any thoughts on what can cause this? can a bearing make that bad of a noise?

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