|
440 Head Gaskets water passages don't match. Help!!!!
#665826
04/10/10 01:13 AM
04/10/10 01:13 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 227
Scottsdale, AZ
Cudalord
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 227
Scottsdale, AZ
|
Ok, I've been battling this overheating problem forever, and it has to be internal, because I've tried EVERYTHING else (please don't ask me if I have a fan shroud)!!! Now, I'm tearing down the motor and I bought some new head gaskets and I noticed something interesting. The water ports above/between the cylinders don't match up. The Felpro 8519PT-1 only has a "slit" in it, but there is a nice sized hole in the head and block obviously restricting the water flow. See pics. Do I have the wrong gasket? What do you recommend? Desperate and I want to get this done this weekend. NO theories, just answers please!!!  Thanks in advance! 
Last edited by Cudalord; 04/10/10 01:16 AM.
|
|
|
Re: 440 Head Gaskets water passages don't match. Help!!
[Re: dirtybee]
#665832
04/10/10 09:14 AM
04/10/10 09:14 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
|
At 1st I thought that was just a block pic for reference but if that is the "one" it (the block) for sure needs to be baked clean. W that amt of crud it will unfortunately never be right. I'd also (w a freeze plug/jb weld) plug the large irrregularly shaped large block water passage in the rear of each deck, as said punch out the slits to match the figure eight top passages AND drill an 1/2" (at least) hole in the block/deck/gasket between #3 and #5, and #4 and #6 cyls in the outer edge of the deck adding a completely new water passage. The proper place on this edge there's 2 outer head bolt holes and you want to drill the 1/2" passage "in/up" so that it makes a triangle w the 2 head bolt holes. 2 ex valves are paired at that point and that alot of blocks have NO passage there and it is exactly the spot that needs a passage and a large one at that. And an anti cavitation plate welded on the pump vanes and at least a 1-1 crank/wp pulley ratio. Good luck to you on this dilemma and holler on what you think & how it turns out
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: 440 Head Gaskets water passages don't match. Help!!
[Re: RapidRobert]
#665834
04/10/10 01:33 PM
04/10/10 01:33 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 227
Scottsdale, AZ
Cudalord
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 227
Scottsdale, AZ
|
There really isn't that much crud on it, most of it is just scaling and it brushed right off.
After doing more research on this, I've seen a lot of guys recommend drilling 3/8" holes through the head gasket to allow water through the two lower passages, and that's it.
Last edited by Cudalord; 04/10/10 01:34 PM.
|
|
|
Re: 440 Head Gaskets water passages don't match. Help!!!!
[Re: 52savoy]
#665837
03/17/12 10:41 PM
03/17/12 10:41 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,960
Kenosha, Wi
GOLDMYN
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,960
Kenosha, Wi
|
Hi, Has anybody had simliar problems with the felpro 1009 head gaskets?, I have an over heating issue and talked to Larry Shepard and he said he "punches" every set he uses. I had an engine shop rebuild my engine and I'm guessing they didn't know about this. any comments will be appreciated.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
Re: 440 Head Gaskets water passages don't match. Help!!!!
[Re: Cudalord]
#665839
03/18/12 02:35 AM
03/18/12 02:35 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477
Canada
|
Transfer slots are common discussion in Jensen Interceptor forums. Small engine compartments make cooling an issue....
I went to the Jensen Monday Club website, the tech section shows how to enlarge the transfer slots.
I roughly tripled the width of the transfer slots on my Jensen's Felpro gaskets.
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
|
|
|
Re: 440 Head Gaskets water passages don't match. Help!!
[Re: RapidRobert]
#665840
03/19/12 12:42 AM
03/19/12 12:42 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,965
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,965
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
At 1st I thought that was just a block pic for reference but if that is the "one" it (the block) for sure needs to be baked clean. W that amt of crud it will unfortunately never be right. I'd also (w a freeze plug/jb weld) plug the large irrregularly shaped large block water passage in the rear of each deck, as said punch out the slits to match the figure eight top passages AND drill an 1/2" (at least) hole in the block/deck/gasket between #3 and #5, and #4 and #6 cyls in the outer edge of the deck adding a completely new water passage. The proper place on this edge there's 2 outer head bolt holes and you want to drill the 1/2" passage "in/up" so that it makes a triangle w the 2 head bolt holes. 2 ex valves are paired at that point and that alot of blocks have NO passage there and it is exactly the spot that needs a passage and a large one at that. And an anti cavitation plate welded on the pump vanes and at least a 1-1 crank/wp pulley ratio. Good luck to you on this dilemma and holler on what you think & how it turns out
Hundreds of thousands of big blocks have run that gasket as it comes out of the box and never had a problem.
The OP has an issue and doing what you suggest is a bandaid masking the problem.
|
|
|
Re: 440 Head Gaskets water passages don't match. Help!!!!
[Re: 52savoy]
#665841
03/19/12 12:45 AM
03/19/12 12:45 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,965
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,965
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
This discussion came up months ago.. There was a change in head gaskets, maybe in the late 70s or so. The round holes were eliminated in favor of slots. I locate the exact place where the holes need to be and repunch the head gasket. I have a set of FelPros done that way on a max wedge and I can't even get it to heat up now. Maybe a little to much flow now?? 
There was NEVER a round hole , the original head gaskets from my 69 383 have a rectangular shaped hole instead of the slit, no other holes added . I can't see it making a huge difference .
|
|
|
Re: 440 Head Gaskets water passages don't match. Help!!!!
[Re: JohnRR]
#665843
03/19/12 09:35 AM
03/19/12 09:35 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,960
Kenosha, Wi
GOLDMYN
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,960
Kenosha, Wi
|
Quote:
Quote:
This discussion came up months ago.. There was a change in head gaskets, maybe in the late 70s or so. The round holes were eliminated in favor of slots. I locate the exact place where the holes need to be and repunch the head gasket. I have a set of FelPros done that way on a max wedge and I can't even get it to heat up now. Maybe a little to much flow now??
There was NEVER a round hole , the original head gaskets from my 69 383 have a rectangular shaped hole instead of the slit, no other holes added . I can't see it making a huge difference .
Huge difference ?, My car is a 1971 Charger R/T that has the stock 22" radiator, I've got a "Glen-Ray" radiator and my car runs at 190 cruising and creeps to 200 at stop signs, IYHO would the change in gasket ie (punching a bigger hole" bring it down 5-10 degrees?...thanks
Semper Fi
|
|
|
Re: 440 Head Gaskets water passages don't match. Help!!!!
[Re: GOLDMYN]
#665844
03/19/12 09:46 AM
03/19/12 09:46 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,965
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,965
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This discussion came up months ago.. There was a change in head gaskets, maybe in the late 70s or so. The round holes were eliminated in favor of slots. I locate the exact place where the holes need to be and repunch the head gasket. I have a set of FelPros done that way on a max wedge and I can't even get it to heat up now. Maybe a little to much flow now??
There was NEVER a round hole , the original head gaskets from my 69 383 have a rectangular shaped hole instead of the slit, no other holes added . I can't see it making a huge difference .
Huge difference ?, My car is a 1971 Charger R/T that has the stock 22" radiator, I've got a "Glen-Ray" radiator and my car runs at 190 cruising and creeps to 200 at stop signs, IYHO would the change in gasket ie (punching a bigger hole" bring it down 5-10 degrees?...thanks
I don't think so, the holes in the block and the head are not directly over each other so making the holes bigger is going not to change this or make the connection between them that much greater.
That said sometime after 71 or so the factory did change that hole in the block to a figure 8, but they didn't change the head gasket.
Some claim to have seen lower temps by adding the 2 holes in the gasket where those lower holes are covered by the gasket but if I remember right this was on extreme race builds ???
I'm guessing your build is more than the 22" rad , especially if you had it done as a 2 row , is capable of cooling , though I don't know what your cooling system consists of .... rows in your core , thermo temp , shroud , fan type ...
This is the original head gasket from my 69 383 , it has a 18xxxxx part number on it .
|
|
|
Re: 440 Head Gaskets water passages don't match. Help!!!!
[Re: JohnRR]
#665845
03/19/12 12:20 PM
03/19/12 12:20 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,960
Kenosha, Wi
GOLDMYN
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,960
Kenosha, Wi
|
Thanks for your response, the radiator is 3 row 22", 180 stat,8 blade water pump, direct drive w/factory fan,factory spacer, factory shroud. Whats your thoughts on crusing at 190?, The cars does run good and doesn't ping, or puke, autometer temp guage, Thanks again!
Semper Fi
|
|
|
Re: 440 Head Gaskets water passages don't match. Help!!!!
[Re: GOLDMYN]
#665847
03/19/12 12:53 PM
03/19/12 12:53 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,965
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,965
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
Thanks for your response, the radiator is 3 row 22", 180 stat,8 blade water pump, direct drive w/factory fan,factory spacer, factory shroud. Whats your thoughts on crusing at 190?, The cars does run good and doesn't ping, or puke, autometer temp guage, Thanks again!
190 cruising is higher than I would expect , but have you confirmed the autometer gauge is reading accurately ? It's electric I assume ?
What is the build of the engine like ? overbore ?
|
|
|
Re: 440 Head Gaskets water passages don't match. Help!!!!
[Re: JohnRR]
#665848
03/19/12 01:25 PM
03/19/12 01:25 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,960
Kenosha, Wi
GOLDMYN
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,960
Kenosha, Wi
|
manual guage, 30 over bore w/10-1 srp piston, eagle rods, stock 346 heads w/3 angle valve/hard seats, factory distributor w/pertonix, timing @34 total, auto trans/w 2000 hughes convertor, 3:23 open factory avs w/14.3 AF 600 miles on rebuild
Semper Fi
|
|
|
Re: 440 Head Gaskets water passages don't match. Help!!!!
[Re: JohnRR]
#665850
03/19/12 01:46 PM
03/19/12 01:46 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,960
Kenosha, Wi
GOLDMYN
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,960
Kenosha, Wi
|
that I can't answer, it was sit-up by the shop that rebuilt the engine, I had mention 38 and was told that was too high,
Semper Fi
|
|
|
Re: 440 Head Gaskets water passages don't match. Help!!!!
[Re: GOLDMYN]
#665851
03/19/12 03:58 PM
03/19/12 03:58 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,965
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,965
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
that I can't answer, it was sit-up by the shop that rebuilt the engine, I had mention 38 and was told that was too high,
If it were an engine build with KB step head pistons then the shop would be correct as that is what the instruction sheet calls out. If you don't have enough advance the engine will run hotter. If it were me I'd bump the timing up to 36 and see if it pings, if not then go to 38, no pinging then run it there and see how it is . Assuming that the initial does make it a little harder to start with the 4 degree advance.
Though new cars run at a higher temp the older cars cooling systems were not designed to. At 190 your thermostat is always open so the coolant is always flowing and not working to it's maximum potential I would think. I would think that at highway speed you would run at a lower temp?
|
|
|
Re: 440 Head Gaskets water passages don't match. Help!!!!
[Re: JohnRR]
#665852
03/19/12 04:59 PM
03/19/12 04:59 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,960
Kenosha, Wi
GOLDMYN
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,960
Kenosha, Wi
|
thanks for the advise, I looked at the service manual and the 1971's call for 185 stat, which cannot be purchased as far as I know,
Semper Fi
|
|
|
Re: 440 Head Gaskets water passages don't match. Help!!!!
[Re: GOLDMYN]
#665853
03/19/12 07:38 PM
03/19/12 07:38 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
|
About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
|
Thermostats control MINIMUM operating temps, not maximum. So, if you are cruising at 190 degrees and your thermostat is rated at 190 you system is working. 190 is not too high. Plenty of info out there saying colder causes more wear.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
|
|
|
|
|
also, do you run a fan shroud? 
just kidding.
.jpg){kind=link}