Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering
[Re: dd340]
#664572
04/08/10 07:16 PM
04/08/10 07:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759 So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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I'm thinking of installing a steering quickener myself. I don't care for the over assist the factory has and I don't like manual steering either. The steering quickener will reduce the amount of assist to you as well as reduce the amount of turns lock to lock.
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering
[Re: HealthServices]
#664573
04/08/10 07:21 PM
04/08/10 07:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
I'm thinking of installing a steering quickener myself. I don't care for the over assist the factory has and I don't like manual steering either. The steering quickener will reduce the amount of assist to you as well as reduce the amount of turns lock to lock.
I was hoping a fast ratio arm would have the desired side-effect of firming up the steering on my PS 'Cuda but the effect on the assist was negligible. Maybe a little. Still over assisted. I swear E-booger had a simple shadetree mod to the box to lessen assist but I don't remember the specifics.
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Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering
[Re: dd340]
#664577
04/09/10 12:14 AM
04/09/10 12:14 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759 So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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Hotchkis has it on their E body and it works really well according to them. But I don't think we are suppose to know about this product since they do not sell it. I spoke to tech about it when they had open house once and he showed me it. Short of going to a rack and pinion, this is it. Every time I ask about it on the forum, they act like they have me on ‘ignore’ You have to cut the steering column and this is spliced into it, and reduces the amount of turns either 1.5 to 1 or 2.0 to 1 depending on which one you buy.
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering
[Re: dd340]
#664579
04/09/10 06:34 AM
04/09/10 06:34 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,356 Kentucky
dfsmopars
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,356
Kentucky
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For my last two restorations I have rebuilt the steering box to firm feel in both PS systems. One was an a-body the other a b-body and I liked it a lot in both.
‘72 Charger, 5.9 Magnum, Tremec 5 spd., Pro-Touring ‘14 Big Horn, Quad Cab, 4x4, 1500
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Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering
[Re: BergmanAutoCraft]
#664583
09/06/10 01:35 AM
09/06/10 01:35 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
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Not sure where this thread is headed. The ratio multipler box of 1.5 or 2.0 would in IMO make a power steering box WAY too fast, and on a manual box it would likely be WAY too hard to steer/turn under 30mph? without arms the size of the Roc (Not knowing front end weight/tire size makes that a guess). Additionally I can't believe the quickner box is really robust enough for daily driving/parking on a full size street car. IMO, Firm Feel stage 3
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering
[Re: jcc]
#664584
09/06/10 02:01 AM
09/06/10 02:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444
So Cal
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Quote:
Not sure where this thread is headed. The ratio multipler box of 1.5 or 2.0 would in IMO make a power steering box WAY too fast,
I thought so too. But everyone that has driven that Hotchkis Emax Challenger loves it.
For some reason I having trouble with the math... 1.5:1 reduction on a 16:1 steering box is what resulting ratio??
10.667 or 12:1 or something else?
Quote:
.. Additionally I can't believe the quickner box is really robust enough for daily driving/parking on a full size street car...
Circle track cars take a bunch of abuse. The toughness on a deal like that are the impacts on the gears. Like from potholes, curbs, etc. Well, on a circle track car they hit/brush walls at 90-100 mph.
The stock steering column bearings on our cars are nothing too HD or special. I think most of the load are at the box.
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Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering
[Re: autoxcuda]
#664585
09/06/10 02:04 AM
09/06/10 02:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444 So Cal
autoxcuda
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444
So Cal
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The problem with this quickner is that is requires quite a bit of fabrication and time. And it requires a core column. I talked with the guy who made it.
Here's some better pictures.
Last edited by autoxcuda; 09/06/10 02:06 AM.
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Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering
[Re: autoxcuda]
#664586
09/06/10 02:07 AM
09/06/10 02:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444 So Cal
autoxcuda
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444
So Cal
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Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering
[Re: jcc]
#664589
09/06/10 11:30 AM
09/06/10 11:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444
So Cal
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The ratio multipler box of 1.5 or 2.0 would in IMO make a power steering box WAY too fast,
I thought so too. But everyone that has driven that Hotchkis Emax Challenger loves it.
I suspect the ratio is likely speed dependant, ie slow speeds a slow ratio, med speeds a fast ratio, and ala superspeedway/nascar speeds, they go back to a slow ratio to likely make more precise steering corrections and prevent oversteering, is my guess.
No, those multipliers are just straight gear reduction boxes. Nothing fancy with variable ratios.
On a 1.5:1 multiplier the input makes 1 revolution the output make 1.5 revolutions. Ok, thinking this word problem though...
So 2.0 turns of the steering wheel then into a 1.5:1 reducer box yields 3.0 turns of the steering shaft into the steering box.
Stock 16:1 power steering cars are 3.6 turns lock to lock.
So .4 turns at the steering wheel into a 1.5:1 reducer box yields .6 turns of the steering shaft into the steering box....
So additively, using a 1.5:1 gear reducer in line with the steering shaft with a 16:1 power steering box will give you 2.4 turns lock to lock at the steering wheel and yeilds 3.6 turns into the steering box.
I think the T/A fast ratio is 2.7 turns lock to lock.
I think I answered my own question.
Last edited by autoxcuda; 09/06/10 11:41 AM.
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Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering
[Re: jcc]
#664590
09/06/10 11:44 AM
09/06/10 11:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,481 Outside
thedriver
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,481
Outside
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i put a manual box in my car, considerably more effort with the 16:1 flaming river box, but i doubt i ll regret that until im like really stinkin old. for now it works great. I dont miss throwin a p/s belt everynow and again at 6500rpm, less weight, one lesss thing to leak, car is now easier to work on. I've never looked back!
1973 challenger Dana. 4 speed. Low deck.
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Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering
[Re: thedriver]
#664591
09/06/10 11:53 AM
09/06/10 11:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444 So Cal
autoxcuda
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Too Many Posts
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Quote:
i put a manual box in my car, considerably more effort with the 16:1 flaming river box, but i doubt i ll regret that until im like really stinkin old. for now it works great. I dont miss throwin a p/s belt everynow and again at 6500rpm, less weight, one lesss thing to leak, car is now easier to work on. I've never looked back!
What size front tires do you have?
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Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering
[Re: thedriver]
#664594
09/06/10 01:25 PM
09/06/10 01:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444 So Cal
autoxcuda
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Too Many Posts
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So Cal
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
i put a manual box in my car, considerably more effort with the 16:1 flaming river box, but i doubt i ll regret that until im like really stinkin old. for now it works great. I dont miss throwin a p/s belt everynow and again at 6500rpm, less weight, one lesss thing to leak, car is now easier to work on. I've never looked back!
What size front tires do you have?
215/70/15.
The wider and more grippy the tire the harder it is to steer. 235/60 wide and lower profile 225 wide tires will be noticably harder to steer.
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Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering
[Re: autoxcuda]
#664597
09/06/10 02:37 PM
09/06/10 02:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,481 Outside
thedriver
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,481
Outside
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
i put a manual box in my car, considerably more effort with the 16:1 flaming river box, but i doubt i ll regret that until im like really stinkin old. for now it works great. I dont miss throwin a p/s belt everynow and again at 6500rpm, less weight, one lesss thing to leak, car is now easier to work on. I've never looked back!
What size front tires do you have?
215/70/15.
The wider and more grippy the tire the harder it is to steer. 235/60 wide and lower profile 225 wide tires will be noticably harder to steer.
but honestly, the only time i notice "effort" in the wheel, is parking stall driving, as far as making corners, etc, there is no real effort there...plus you can really feeel where your tires are on the road.
1973 challenger Dana. 4 speed. Low deck.
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Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering
[Re: RV2]
#664598
09/06/10 04:47 PM
09/06/10 04:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario
dd340
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 727
Ottawa, ontario
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Quote:
Do you remember who the seller was and what did you have to pay for it?
As far a I know it was just someone selling a box they didn't want anymore. He also included the power to manual steering coupler. I won it for $225 and it only had a few miles on it. I thought it was a great deal in the end.
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Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering
[Re: autoxcuda]
#664599
09/06/10 06:08 PM
09/06/10 06:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The ratio multipler box of 1.5 or 2.0 would in IMO make a power steering box WAY too fast,
I thought so too. But everyone that has driven that Hotchkis Emax Challenger loves it.
I suspect the ratio is likely speed dependant, ie slow speeds a slow ratio, med speeds a fast ratio, and ala superspeedway/nascar speeds, they go back to a slow ratio to likely make more precise steering corrections and prevent oversteering, is my guess.
No, those multipliers are just straight gear reduction boxes. Nothing fancy with variable ratios.
We obviously are on two different pages. Not sure how "variable" ratios got injected. However, it seems to me, that different ratios are favorable for different uses/speeds cars are driven, again slow ratio for superspeedways, fast for med speed track use, slow for around town street and parking. So you pick your poison, unless you can tell me about this variable ratio box for an old Mopar. Make sense?
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering
[Re: jcc]
#664600
09/06/10 09:53 PM
09/06/10 09:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444
So Cal
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Quote:
We obviously are on two different pages. Not sure how "variable" ratios got injected. However, it seems to me, that different ratios are favorable for different uses/speeds cars are driven, again slow ratio for superspeedways, fast for med speed track use, slow for around town street and parking. So you pick your poison, unless you can tell me about this variable ratio box for an old Mopar. Make sense?
Ok, now I understand what you were saying.
I think the superspeedway and bonniville stuff will have a slower ratio. Even drag cars.
But if was power steering I don't see much of a downfall to quicker ratio for in the city driving.
I think a lot of new performance car have 12:1 or 10:1 steering ratios.
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