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Firm Feel or Manual steering #664570
04/08/10 05:57 PM
04/08/10 05:57 PM
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Ottawa, ontario
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dd340 Offline OP
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I have never been completely happy with the powersteering on my 69 dart and I am considering swapping to either a firm feel unit or mayby to a fast ratio manual. Any experience on these setups and if so what is your preference?

Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: dd340] #664571
04/08/10 06:20 PM
04/08/10 06:20 PM
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Toronto, Canada
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dirtybee Offline
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i didn't like my power steering either even after i $pent on a rebuilt box so i ended up going manual. less things to leak or break and less weight. pretty cheap swap too if you find a descent used box.

Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: dd340] #664572
04/08/10 07:16 PM
04/08/10 07:16 PM
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So Cal
HealthServices Offline
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I'm thinking of installing a steering quickener myself. I don't care for the over assist the factory has and I don't like manual steering either. The steering quickener will reduce the amount of assist to you as well as reduce the amount of turns lock to lock.


Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: HealthServices] #664573
04/08/10 07:21 PM
04/08/10 07:21 PM
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Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Quote:

I'm thinking of installing a steering quickener myself. I don't care for the over assist the factory has and I don't like manual steering either. The steering quickener will reduce the amount of assist to you as well as reduce the amount of turns lock to lock.




I was hoping a fast ratio arm would have the desired side-effect of firming up the steering on my PS 'Cuda but the effect on the assist was negligible. Maybe a little. Still over assisted.
I swear E-booger had a simple shadetree mod to the box to lessen assist but I don't remember the specifics.

Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #664574
04/08/10 07:29 PM
04/08/10 07:29 PM
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Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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I was thinking about one of these...



If that don't work maybe I'll add a firm feel.


Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: HealthServices] #664575
04/08/10 07:43 PM
04/08/10 07:43 PM
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Ottawa, ontario
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dd340 Offline OP
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Quote:

I was thinking about one of these...



If that don't work maybe I'll add a firm feel.



How does it work and how much is it?

Last edited by dd340; 04/08/10 07:44 PM.
Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #664576
04/08/10 07:46 PM
04/08/10 07:46 PM
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Ottawa, ontario
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dd340 Offline OP
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I was hoping a fast ratio arm would have the desired side-effect of firming up the steering on my PS 'Cuda but the effect on the assist was negligible. Maybe a little. Still over assisted.
I swear E-booger had a simple shadetree mod to the box to lessen assist but I don't remember the specifics.




for me it is less about the over assist and more about the precision steering which seems to be lacking in the power steering box.

Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: dd340] #664577
04/09/10 12:14 AM
04/09/10 12:14 AM
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So Cal
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Hotchkis has it on their E body and it works really well according to them. But I don't think we are suppose to know about this product since they do not sell it. I spoke to tech about it when they had open house once and he showed me it. Short of going to a rack and pinion, this is it. Every time I ask about it on the forum, they act like they have me on ‘ignore’


You have to cut the steering column and this is spliced into it, and reduces the amount of turns either 1.5 to 1 or 2.0 to 1 depending on which one you buy.


Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: HealthServices] #664578
04/09/10 02:17 AM
04/09/10 02:17 AM
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Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
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Circle track guys have been using these things for years, rally drivers too. They are called steering quickeners. Howe also makes them... they are in the Summit catalog. They make them in different ratios.
The power steering in most all mopars has always seemed to be overboosted. A larger pulley on the pump will help some. The police car firm feel chuck is slightly better than the standard unit. Using the longer "fast ratio" pitman and idler arms will help too. Having your unit rebuilt to give more effort and feel is probably the single most effective move you can make though.

Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: dd340] #664579
04/09/10 06:34 AM
04/09/10 06:34 AM
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Kentucky
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For my last two restorations I have rebuilt the steering box to firm feel in both PS systems. One was an a-body the other a b-body and I liked it a lot in both.


‘72 Charger, 5.9 Magnum, Tremec 5 spd., Pro-Touring
‘14 Big Horn, Quad Cab, 4x4, 1500
Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: dfsmopars] #664580
04/09/10 08:29 AM
04/09/10 08:29 AM
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San Jose, California
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Firm Feel.

Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: dd340] #664581
04/12/10 01:12 PM
04/12/10 01:12 PM
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CA
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challengeher Offline
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I've got the stage two box on my challenger, and I like it a lot. I've had other friends complain that it's "fake road feel" but to me it just gets rid of the slop.

I would make sure all your suspension/bushings/tires are good as well, because your steering box won't be able to do much for you if the front end is all worn out.

Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: challengeher] #664582
09/06/10 12:21 AM
09/06/10 12:21 AM
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Long Island, NY USA
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I was thinking about this too. You can only firm up slow steering so much. True, the rebuilt boxes are better, but the real problem is ratio - no getting around it. A 1.5:1 would do the trick.

Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: BergmanAutoCraft] #664583
09/06/10 01:35 AM
09/06/10 01:35 AM
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Bitopia
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Not sure where this thread is headed. The ratio multipler box of 1.5 or 2.0 would in IMO make a power steering box WAY too fast, and on a manual box it would likely be WAY too hard to steer/turn under 30mph? without arms the size of the Roc (Not knowing front end weight/tire size makes that a guess). Additionally I can't believe the quickner box is really robust enough for daily driving/parking on a full size street car.

IMO, Firm Feel stage 3


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: jcc] #664584
09/06/10 02:01 AM
09/06/10 02:01 AM
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So Cal
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Quote:

Not sure where this thread is headed. The ratio multipler box of 1.5 or 2.0 would in IMO make a power steering box WAY too fast,




I thought so too. But everyone that has driven that Hotchkis Emax Challenger loves it.

For some reason I having trouble with the math... 1.5:1 reduction on a 16:1 steering box is what resulting ratio??

10.667 or 12:1 or something else?


Quote:

.. Additionally I can't believe the quickner box is really robust enough for daily driving/parking on a full size street car...




Circle track cars take a bunch of abuse. The toughness on a deal like that are the impacts on the gears. Like from potholes, curbs, etc. Well, on a circle track car they hit/brush walls at 90-100 mph.

The stock steering column bearings on our cars are nothing too HD or special. I think most of the load are at the box.

Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: autoxcuda] #664585
09/06/10 02:04 AM
09/06/10 02:04 AM
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Posts: 27,444
So Cal
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The problem with this quickner is that is requires quite a bit of fabrication and time. And it requires a core column. I talked with the guy who made it.

Here's some better pictures.

Last edited by autoxcuda; 09/06/10 02:06 AM.
Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: autoxcuda] #664586
09/06/10 02:07 AM
09/06/10 02:07 AM
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So Cal
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Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: autoxcuda] #664587
09/06/10 10:33 AM
09/06/10 10:33 AM
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Carson City, NV
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Do you have strong arms? A quick ratio box requires a LOT more effort and a long pitman arm will not clear headers. I have Firm Feel #2 and love it.

Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: autoxcuda] #664588
09/06/10 11:03 AM
09/06/10 11:03 AM
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Quote:

The ratio multipler box of 1.5 or 2.0 would in IMO make a power steering box WAY too fast,




I thought so too. But everyone that has driven that Hotchkis Emax Challenger loves it.





I suspect the ratio is likely speed dependant, ie slow speeds a slow ratio, med speeds a fast ratio, and ala superspeedway/nascar speeds, they go back to a slow ratio to likely make more precise steering corrections and prevent oversteering, is my guess.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Firm Feel or Manual steering [Re: jcc] #664589
09/06/10 11:30 AM
09/06/10 11:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444
So Cal
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The ratio multipler box of 1.5 or 2.0 would in IMO make a power steering box WAY too fast,




I thought so too. But everyone that has driven that Hotchkis Emax Challenger loves it.




I suspect the ratio is likely speed dependant, ie slow speeds a slow ratio, med speeds a fast ratio, and ala superspeedway/nascar speeds, they go back to a slow ratio to likely make more precise steering corrections and prevent oversteering, is my guess.




No, those multipliers are just straight gear reduction boxes. Nothing fancy with variable ratios.

On a 1.5:1 multiplier the input makes 1 revolution the output make 1.5 revolutions. Ok, thinking this word problem though...

So 2.0 turns of the steering wheel then into a 1.5:1 reducer box yields 3.0 turns of the steering shaft into the steering box.

Stock 16:1 power steering cars are 3.6 turns lock to lock.

So .4 turns at the steering wheel into a 1.5:1 reducer box yields .6 turns of the steering shaft into the steering box....

So additively, using a 1.5:1 gear reducer in line with the steering shaft with a 16:1 power steering box will give you 2.4 turns lock to lock at the steering wheel and yeilds 3.6 turns into the steering box.

I think the T/A fast ratio is 2.7 turns lock to lock.

I think I answered my own question.

Last edited by autoxcuda; 09/06/10 11:41 AM.
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