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727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! #659891 04/03/10 01:30 PM 04/03/10 01:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom B blown360 OP enthusiast
blown360 OP enthusiast B Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom	im away racing at the minute in sunny england with my buddies cuda racecar and we are having transmission problems. it is a freshly built 727 with transbrake, deep sump, 9 " converter all transbrake ready. the breather has been moved from the bell hoousing to the top of the gearbox. the problem we have is after every run there is oil spewing out of the breather. does any one have any ideas on what is causing this and how much oil capacity the gearbox would have ? it has a an aftermarket dipstick but im not sure if i trust it .. please help!

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: blown360] #659892 04/03/10 01:37 PM 04/03/10 01:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio VernMotor master
VernMotor master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio	well I hold the stick up on the outside of the tube and see just how far it would go in to the pan,That would give you some idea where the fluid level is and how the stick is marked,Fluid don't need to be above the pan rail for sure and could be lower

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: VernMotor] #659893 04/03/10 01:45 PM 04/03/10 01:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom B blown360 OP enthusiast
blown360 OP enthusiast B Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom	Ive just done that and its definetely above the pan rail!How much fluid approx should we have in this thing?

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: blown360] #659894 04/03/10 01:51 PM 04/03/10 01:51 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	7 QUARTS maybe 7.5

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! #659895 04/03/10 01:55 PM 04/03/10 01:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom B blown360 OP enthusiast
blown360 OP enthusiast B Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom	Weve drained the box so am I right in saying we should refill by 6.5 quartz to alloiw for the leftover oil in the verter? Does that sound about right?

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: blown360] #659896 04/03/10 02:02 PM 04/03/10 02:02 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Weve drained the box so am I right in saying we should refill by 6.5 quartz to alloiw for the leftover oil in the verter? Does that sound about right? your going to have fluid in the converter as well as the lines so no more than 6 quarts.

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! #659897 04/03/10 02:06 PM 04/03/10 02:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom B blown360 OP enthusiast
blown360 OP enthusiast B Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom	Are all the deep alloy sumps the vsame cxapacity? this one measures approx 3.5" deep.

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: blown360] #659898 04/03/10 02:08 PM 04/03/10 02:08 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Are all the deep alloy sumps the vsame cxapacity? this one measures approx 3.5" deep. no, there are different size ones. put in 6 quarts, start it up get it warm in nuetral, pull out dipstick and it should read add 1 pint.

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! #659899 04/03/10 02:13 PM 04/03/10 02:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom B blown360 OP enthusiast
blown360 OP enthusiast B Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom	When we checked the dipstick just now its not long enough to go into the sump its sitting higher than the top of the pan so we cant really go by the dipstick as it would bring the oil level up past the pan rail. Its the one that was supplied by the box and from what I gather its too darn short. Does this sound right?

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: blown360] #659900 04/03/10 03:01 PM 04/03/10 03:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 162 Greentown Indiana M moparmxz member
moparmxz member M Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 162 Greentown Indiana	I just took a look at a stock one and the fluid level full should be about at the top of the case were the dipstick goes in. Randy Brough 1967 440 Dart S/P 6.37 106mph best eighth 3150 lbs

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: moparmxz] #659901 04/03/10 03:44 PM 04/03/10 03:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,647 aotearoa rebel master
rebel master Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,647 aotearoa	i've been having the same problem with the breather so i've done the fluid level thing before. depends on your system how much fluid it has but when everything is hot the level should only be to the top of the pan! i have a hose coming off my tailshaft breather running up to the firewall where i've installed a mini k&n style filter, this seems to prevent the fluid spewing on the track & giving the track crew grief. good luck with racing the 'cuda

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: rebel] #659902 04/03/10 03:51 PM 04/03/10 03:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio VernMotor master
VernMotor master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio	With a deep pan there no reason to run the fluid level to the top of the case. Best to run it a little lower.stock pan only 1/2 " deep and we don't run them alot of rpm.No need in running the fluid up that high with a deep pan. with a race car.

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: VernMotor] #659903 04/03/10 05:02 PM 04/03/10 05:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom B blown360 OP enthusiast
blown360 OP enthusiast B Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom	Cheers for your help everyone! Much appreciated! Weve filled it just below the pan rail now and were gonna run it 2moro and hopefully well be sorted. Its a new engine/box/4link combo so were just setting it up this weekend. Ran a best of 10.3 today on a gentle pass misfiring so hopefully well hit the 9's over the next two days. We cant cure the miss until we get our new dizzy though grrrrrrr! If any of you guys know how to stop it raining too were open to suggestions! Cheers everyone!

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: blown360] #659904 04/03/10 05:05 PM 04/03/10 05:05 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	goodluck to you guys over there!

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: blown360] #659905 04/03/10 05:32 PM 04/03/10 05:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,726 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,726 Rio Linda, CA	The FULL mark on the dipstick is 1/4" (6.3MM) above the ledge on the case that the tube inserts into. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: John_Kunkel] #659906 04/04/10 07:16 AM 04/04/10 07:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom B blown360 OP enthusiast
blown360 OP enthusiast B Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom	Thanks guys for your help! Weve set the level just below the pan rail so hopefully it'll find its own level after a couple of passes. Hoping to break the nines this weekend but its a struggle with our poorly dizzy just hope our new one turns up before the next meeting. Keep you all posted as the weekend goes on!

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: John_Kunkel] #659907 04/04/10 09:43 AM 04/04/10 09:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,923 NC 440Jim I Live Here
440Jim I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,923 NC	Quote: The FULL mark on the dipstick is 1/4" (6.3MM) above the ledge on the case that the tube inserts into. John, Are you referring to the top ledge shown in my attached picture (1-1/4 from pan gasket surface)? I don't have a dipstick and tube except those installed in my cars to check. 5906707-Dipstick_case_dims.jpg (42 downloads)

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: 440Jim] #659908 04/04/10 10:06 AM 04/04/10 10:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,923 NC 440Jim I Live Here
440Jim I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,923 NC	Here is a related question. Why does the fluid level need to be submerging the valve body? Does the valve body aerate the fluid if the level is below that? Such as at high rpm and shifting, not driving around the pits. Maybe the servos aerating the fluid if their bottom is not submerged (normal leakage)? The reason I ask is that I notice my race trans has issues if the fluid gets a little low. And it has a super deep pan with a 2" filter extension (with o-ring seal against the valve body). So air isn't getting in the filter. 1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: 440Jim] #659909 04/04/10 10:31 AM 04/04/10 10:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 162 Greentown Indiana M moparmxz member
moparmxz member M Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 162 Greentown Indiana	I,ve experienced the same thing, the level needs to be full or my trans shifts funky.I always just assumed when in use the level goes down from fluid pumping fast and not returning to the pan fast enough. Randy Brough 1967 440 Dart S/P 6.37 106mph best eighth 3150 lbs

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: moparmxz] #659910 04/04/10 12:36 PM 04/04/10 12:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,880 USA Ron Silva top fuel
Ron Silva top fuel Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,880 USA	Just for reference, here is a setup I have here and I believe it is for a 904. I have several tubes and dip sticks and this shows it would in fact be above the boss the tube goes into. All my setups total variance is about 1/4" max mixing and matching tubes and sticks. 727 is probably similar if not the same. So 1/4" above the boss is most likely correct. 5907005-MVC-127F.JPG (52 downloads) Last edited by dragrcr97; 04/04/10 12:39 PM. SRT DEMON ONE SEAT

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: Ron Silva] #659911 04/04/10 12:37 PM 04/04/10 12:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,880 USA Ron Silva top fuel
Ron Silva top fuel Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,880 USA	#2 5907006-MVC-128F.JPG (78 downloads) SRT DEMON ONE SEAT

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: 440Jim] #659912 04/04/10 03:04 PM 04/04/10 03:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,726 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,726 Rio Linda, CA	Quote: Quote: The FULL mark on the dipstick is 1/4" (6.3MM) above the ledge on the case that the tube inserts into. John, Are you referring to the top ledge shown in my attached picture (1-1/4 from pan gasket surface)? Yes, the full mark is 1/4" above that ledge. It's important that the VB stay submerged in fluid because there are no gaskets in the VB and when the VB is uncovered it can suck air and aerate the fluid; unlike liquid fluid, aerated fluid can compress. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: moparmxz] #659913 04/04/10 03:06 PM 04/04/10 03:06 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: I,ve experienced the same thing, the level needs to be full or my trans shifts funky.I always just assumed when in use the level goes down from fluid pumping fast and not returning to the pan fast enough. i have had same situation also.UNDERFILL AT CECIL COUNTY LOST .2 AND 3 MPH, ADDED A QUART AND ran my best ever.you can feel the trans. not pulling right. like a drag.but if you overfill by a 1/2 quart it pukes out the front pump vent hole. this front pump hole needs to be plugged and a top vent needs to be put in on next rebuild. 5907191-63plymouthmaxwedgeatATCO4.26.09749.JPG (57 downloads)

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! #659914 04/04/10 03:40 PM 04/04/10 03:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom B blown360 OP enthusiast
blown360 OP enthusiast B Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom	We ran it today with the oil level at the top of the pan rail and it shifted fine using the tansbrake. This new motor revs so fast though the drivers shifting late and hitting the limiter. Ran 11.98 @ 123mph today with a fluffed shift. First run was a 10.38 @ 122. We'll get it sorted!

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: Ron Silva] #659915 04/06/10 03:51 PM 04/06/10 03:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,923 NC 440Jim I Live Here
440Jim I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,923 NC	Quote: #2 That and John's words say it all, and explain my experience. I guess that super deep pan and filter extension really only adds fluid capacity (cooling?) and the same pan with a 1" extension would get basically the same benefit, since the level needs to be so high (above the valve body). And that debunks some other posts in the past that say it is OK to run a torqueflite low on fluid. The exact mark may be debateable, but I believe in the concept; for a race trans anyway.

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: 440Jim] #659916 04/06/10 05:07 PM 04/06/10 05:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,880 USA Ron Silva top fuel
Ron Silva top fuel Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,880 USA	I just talked to Dave from Pro Trans and he said that the level can NOT be run low, like 1" or near the pan rail. He said you cold run it a little low, like 1/4" just to be safe if you have a habbit of puking oil out the vents, but it needs to be near a stock/normal level. It cannot be run low despite having the deep pan and filter extension. SRT DEMON ONE SEAT

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: Ron Silva] #659917 04/06/10 05:44 PM 04/06/10 05:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio VernMotor master
VernMotor master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio	That is interesting for sure..I never thought about it sucking air around the valve body..

Re: 727 OIL LOSS PLEASE HELP! [Re: VernMotor] #659918 04/07/10 02:34 PM 04/07/10 02:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom B blown360 OP enthusiast
blown360 OP enthusiast B Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 287 united kingdom	We ran it low on oil and turns out the mis-shift we thought we had due to driver error wasnt. The next run the car hit the limiter again when grabbing second and wouldnt shift into second during the burnout. Is it possible this is just due to low oil? It shifts into second when driven gently but wont under load. It shifted faultlessly before we lowered the oil level. Still ran a 10.4 with no second and short shifted to third at 133mph through the lights. Weve gotta pull the engine to fix a slight rear main leak so is it worth getting the trans checked out or should we just top the oil back up?

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