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Forced induction and bracket racing? #658898
04/02/10 10:59 AM
04/02/10 10:59 AM
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Out West
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408strokerdart Offline OP
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408strokerdart  Offline OP
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Just putting some feelers out there to see what the opinions are.

I want to be able to run both a heads up class here in Texas that runs about 6-7 races per year. Their limitations on rules is a F1 procharger with air/water intercooler. Guys that are doing well are well into the 5.0's 1/8th mile.

I also want the ability to bracket race my car in non heads up form. Can I dial back the boost and keep the car deadly consistant? It has to be repeatable and dead on to be competitive....especially in the sea of dragsters we get down here in super pro. I would like to be able to de-tune to run 5.6 to 5.7 with the big tires on.

Does anyone think this can be done.....the true dual purpose hot rod?

Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: 408strokerdart] #658899
04/02/10 11:35 AM
04/02/10 11:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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I don't see how you can do it easily other than changing supercharger pulleys to dial the boost level. Either that or if you could get a boost valve in the pressure tube leading to the carb and get it to vent at a preset pressure. Not sure if something like that exists but probably does.

Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #658900
04/02/10 01:06 PM
04/02/10 01:06 PM
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New Brunswick, Canada
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TrxR Offline
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TrxR  Offline
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New Brunswick, Canada
you could try running a wastegate between the turbo and your intake to release at a certain pressure. I think I have read about some guys doing that .

Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #658901
04/02/10 02:03 PM
04/02/10 02:03 PM
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Posts: 3,456
Out West
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408strokerdart Offline OP
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408strokerdart  Offline OP
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Quote:

I don't see how you can do it easily other than changing supercharger pulleys to dial the boost level. Either that or if you could get a boost valve in the pressure tube leading to the carb and get it to vent at a preset pressure. Not sure if something like that exists but probably does.




This is somewhat what I was thinking. I know there are some very sophisticated boost controllers on the market.

Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: 408strokerdart] #658902
04/02/10 04:00 PM
04/02/10 04:00 PM
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ELYRIA,OH
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blownzoom440 Offline
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i think it would run on the #'s with the A/W or A/A keeping the intake temps steady.

Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: blownzoom440] #658903
04/02/10 04:35 PM
04/02/10 04:35 PM
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Posts: 637
Kokomo,IN
StripeHOG Offline
mopar
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mopar

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Kokomo,IN
Wouldn't a Air to Air be better suited for bracket racing???


Andrew Brough D372 1969 Dodge Dart GTS 1.43 60'best 6.82 1/8 98mph "the light came on and I ran out of talent"
Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: StripeHOG] #658904
04/02/10 04:47 PM
04/02/10 04:47 PM
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Renton Wa
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topfueldart Offline
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Renton Wa
Quote:

Wouldn't a Air to Air be better suited for bracket racing???




No, not at all. Temps are manageable with an ice/water tank. Once an Air to Air is heat soaked in the later rounds, your screwed.


11.48 @ 120 with a 1.80 60' 318, stock 1.88 heads, stock 904, Pump Gas, 13 lbs of boost.

9.94 @ 134, 318 on pump gas, 14 lbs w/ Eddies, transbrake 727, 3600 lbs, 3.54 gear and 28's.
Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: topfueldart] #658905
04/02/10 04:59 PM
04/02/10 04:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
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408strokerdart Offline OP
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408strokerdart  Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

Wouldn't a Air to Air be better suited for bracket racing???




No, not at all. Temps are manageable with an ice/water tank. Once an Air to Air is heat soaked in the later rounds, your screwed.




This is what I was thinking as well. I have all the help I need to make a mini control system to keep the temps where they need to be. The company I work for has a controls group that loves challenges.

Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: 408strokerdart] #658906
04/02/10 06:17 PM
04/02/10 06:17 PM
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Posts: 4,590
Indy
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joshking440 Offline
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I have been talking to a few people about this as well. I want to ret to run super gas using a boost controller on my car. 9.90 at 160 should be pretty fun... There are guys doing it with throttle stops, so I know we can do it with a boost controller

Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: joshking440] #658907
04/02/10 06:38 PM
04/02/10 06:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
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408strokerdart Offline OP
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408strokerdart  Offline OP
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Quote:

I have been talking to a few people about this as well. I want to ret to run super gas using a boost controller on my car. 9.90 at 160 should be pretty fun... There are guys doing it with throttle stops, so I know we can do it with a boost controller




Maybe we could put our heads together on something if it doesn't already exist.

Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: topfueldart] #658908
04/02/10 06:52 PM
04/02/10 06:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Wouldn't a Air to Air be better suited for bracket racing???




No, not at all. Temps are manageable with an ice/water tank. Once an Air to Air is heat soaked in the later rounds, your screwed.




A/W will heat soak too, but easier to cool between rounds by running the fan. I've heard some guys throwing a bag of ice of their A/A to cool it between rounds.

Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #658909
04/02/10 07:10 PM
04/02/10 07:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
Duner Offline
top fuel
Duner  Offline
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Chandler, AZ
I have a 5-gallon reservoir for mine. I just drain it and refill with ice for the next pass. No heat soak involved. The only downside is that when it's really doing it's job while racing in the summer months - it melts a full 20# of ice per pass.

Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: 408strokerdart] #658910
04/03/10 08:52 AM
04/03/10 08:52 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,238
North Cackilacky
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sdaurity Offline
pro stock
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North Cackilacky
Quote:

Just putting some feelers out there to see what the opinions are.

I want to be able to run both a heads up class here in Texas that runs about 6-7 races per year. Their limitations on rules is a F1 procharger with air/water intercooler. Guys that are doing well are well into the 5.0's 1/8th mile.

I also want the ability to bracket race my car in non heads up form. Can I dial back the boost and keep the car deadly consistant? It has to be repeatable and dead on to be competitive....especially in the sea of dragsters we get down here in super pro. I would like to be able to de-tune to run 5.6 to 5.7 with the big tires on.

Does anyone think this can be done.....the true dual purpose hot rod?





I personally don't think detuning the car will be the problem at all. An all out heads up engine that will go 5.0's at I'm guessing around 3200 lbs with a F1R. I wouldn't want to go more than 100 -125 passes at the absolute most without tearing that beast down. and If you go gear driven supercharger, valvetrain life is cut way down from all my experience. I think if you wanted to do both you would have to do a milder engine combo and be a little slower in the head up stuff but still have ability to bracket race/ index race.


One day I will have something cool here.
Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: 408strokerdart] #658911
04/03/10 09:31 AM
04/03/10 09:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590
Indy
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joshking440 Offline
Lunch is on me!
joshking440  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590
Indy
Quote:

Quote:

I have been talking to a few people about this as well. I want to ret to run super gas using a boost controller on my car. 9.90 at 160 should be pretty fun... There are guys doing it with throttle stops, so I know we can do it with a boost controller




Maybe we could put our heads together on something if it doesn't already exist.




Have you ever spoke with Joe from Hyperaktive? He has the boost controller that would be the best for this application. Im not going to pretend to know how it works, but its not time based, its more accurate then that. I think he watches driveshaft, or mph, but it would be the best deal for theis type of application.

Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: joshking440] #658912
04/03/10 10:24 AM
04/03/10 10:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline
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Great Neck,LI,new york
Why can't you just take some timing out to slow it down some ??


HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: 408strokerdart] #658913
04/04/10 04:18 PM
04/04/10 04:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,586
Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
ProStDodge Offline
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ProStDodge  Offline
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Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
YES - a boosted car can be consistent enough to bracket race. Been there/Done that.

I ran a D-1 procharger blown through a flying toilet throttle body with a mechanical alcohol injection system on a stock Mopar 505hp 500" crate motor. At 13psi of boost the car ran a deadly consistent 9.41's in a 2850# Cuda. So consistent I didn't usually have to change the dial for weeks at a time. The procharger would spool up such that it didn't hit the tire too hard off the line, but powered the wheels up a few feet out and held them till the 1-2 shift. I did have to switch to a cog belt drive from the original 12-rib belt.

That was back in '00-'01 and I wasn't running an inter-cooler or BOV. To do over again I would definitely use a BOV - mostly to keep from building too much pressure against the throttle body when lifting at the top end of the track.

My new car (turbo setup) will have an inter-cooler, waste gate, and a BOV to allow for tuning different times/classes.

Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: 408strokerdart] #658914
04/04/10 06:41 PM
04/04/10 06:41 PM
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Idabel,Oklahoma
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Gary Robbins Offline
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Idabel,Oklahoma
Quote:

Quote:

I have been talking to a few people about this as well. I want to ret to run super gas using a boost controller on my car. 9.90 at 160 should be pretty fun... There are guys doing it with throttle stops, so I know we can do it with a boost controller




Maybe we could put our heads together on something if it doesn't already exist.




Brian,speaking about heads...If you are talking about running the ttt5 series in dallas area you may want to look at the head rules for smallblock mopars...I think even thier extreme class only allows w/5 heads on small mopars,a very friendly big block nitrous class...I hope to make some of the ttt5 races in the future with the cuda...Been following your build and it looks like a very trick and killer car,good luck with it as we need all the heads-up mopars we can get
Gary

Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: Gary Robbins] #658915
04/06/10 04:20 PM
04/06/10 04:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 872
Charlotte NC
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DCI Offline
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Charlotte NC


"Turbo will be easiest, and at the HP level will also be easiest on parts. Spend the money to do it right, and you can build a 500 HP street motor that will live a long and happy life, and probably with a very basic short block." Those words must have left a bad taste in his mouth!
Re: Forced induction and bracket racing? [Re: Gary Robbins] #658916
04/06/10 10:38 PM
04/06/10 10:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
4
408strokerdart Offline OP
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408strokerdart  Offline OP
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Out West
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I have been talking to a few people about this as well. I want to ret to run super gas using a boost controller on my car. 9.90 at 160 should be pretty fun... There are guys doing it with throttle stops, so I know we can do it with a boost controller




Maybe we could put our heads together on something if it doesn't already exist.




Brian,speaking about heads...If you are talking about running the ttt5 series in dallas area you may want to look at the head rules for smallblock mopars...I think even thier extreme class only allows w/5 heads on small mopars,a very friendly big block nitrous class...I hope to make some of the ttt5 races in the future with the cuda...Been following your build and it looks like a very trick and killer car,good luck with it as we need all the heads-up mopars we can get
Gary




Thanks Gary,

I am indeed talking about the extreme 10.5 class. I have been talking with the powers that be to make an attempt at getting my W8 heads on the accepted list. That list sucks for small block mopars mostly because there has been so little interest that no others have been seriously looked at. The only way a mopar could possibly be competitive in that class is to run a BIG inch big block with 440-1 heads on a serious dose of Nitrous. This is unless the accepted heads list changes . Definately let me know if you come down to any of the races.







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