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Some suggestions please #653458
03/28/10 12:51 PM
03/28/10 12:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 151
MotorCity
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RC91  Offline OP
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MotorCity
First off I gotta say I'm fascinated by this forced induction section. Especially the low budget stuff since I'm a low budget kinda guy. I've owned and raced mopars for over 3 decades and was a member here before. But a illness forced me to get rid of everything back in 06. I'm now fine, and really bored of driving anemic vehicles.
I have a 91 Ramcharger, 318 TBI that could use some help getting up hills, and a clean 78 Aspen wagon for a project car.

Anyway, could you fine people direct me to some sites and books that will help me get a better idea on what I'd need to get started on a project like this?

Re: Some suggestions please [Re: RC91] #653459
03/28/10 01:45 PM
03/28/10 01:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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blownzoom440 Offline
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ELYRIA,OH
1st WELCOME BACK!stay healthy!
being in the boost area i guess you want some.i have seen a low $ sb turbo on here.he is sure to chime in.

Re: Some suggestions please [Re: blownzoom440] #653460
03/28/10 04:55 PM
03/28/10 04:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 151
MotorCity
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MotorCity
Thanks, and it's nice to be back. I'm looking for some boost on the ramcharger. Something that will make it perform more like a 360 Magnum MPI or a stock big block when it hits a hill, which there are plenty of where I live. Right now when I hit a hill on the highway @ 65MPH, I end up dropping back to 58 before it kicks out of OD. At that point I'm at WOT.

The wagon will be a longer term project. After watching the video's of slant six's and small blocks running turbo's, I think that would be the best bang for the buck for a sleeper wagon.

Re: Some suggestions please [Re: RC91] #653461
03/29/10 01:14 PM
03/29/10 01:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
F
Fury Fan Offline
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Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Visit the below forum regularly, start reading at the old threads and working forward.
http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/index.php?board=21.0
Look thru the books here, read the reviews, and see which books interest you:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_k...;qid=1269882055

The one by Corky Bell is a good primer, although DIY experts will disagree with some of his info/opinions. The Warner and MacInnes books are decent, too.


Parts I seek: driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set 16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better. 69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields Send a PM.
Re: Some suggestions please [Re: Fury Fan] #653462
03/29/10 04:08 PM
03/29/10 04:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets Offline
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feets  Offline
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Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
I've got the McInnes book. That was cutting edge technology 25 years ago. The physics didn't change but technology sure did.
I like the Bell book.

That RC has all kinds of room for plumbing. If you're not going to drop a Cummins in it then a properly sized hair drier would definately wake it up.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Some suggestions please [Re: Fury Fan] #653463
03/29/10 10:55 PM
03/29/10 10:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 151
MotorCity
RC91 Offline OP
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RC91  Offline OP
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MotorCity
Thanks guys! I stumbled into turbomustangs.com yesterday. A lot of good info there. I'll start chasing down those books on Amazon. I've got a few ideas, but I need to do some heavy reading before I do anything.

Re: Some suggestions please [Re: RC91] #653464
03/31/10 09:32 AM
03/31/10 09:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 151
MotorCity
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MotorCity
After spending a lot of time on turbomustang.com's mopar section, the general consensus is the stock TBI on my RC is not up to the task for a blow through. I was planning on a max 6lb of boost for the RC, but apparently the TBI is not even capable of handling that. I could easily convert back to a carb, but the biggest problem would be cold start. I'm a volunteer firefighter, and most fires happen during the winter months at night. I have a remote start system on this so I can fire it up as soon as my pager goes off. This will not work with a chokeless carb. I though up a possible work around to using a choke several years ago, but never tried it. I was thinking of using a nitrous plate with jets and solenoids to spray fuel for cold starts. Obviously that would take some trial and error to get working correctly. My only other option at this point would be a MPI magnum swap.

Re: Some suggestions please [Re: RC91] #653465
03/31/10 09:43 AM
03/31/10 09:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
you got to do the wagon. A nice boosted 360 you could drive to the track run good numbers and drive it home. For a 1st build I'd do a blow thru S/C set-up. You can buy complete set-ups for $3200 or make your own for around 2. The best thing is you won't need crazy heads, big cams, high stalls or tall gears to run.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: Some suggestions please [Re: Mr.Yuck] #653466
03/31/10 11:29 AM
03/31/10 11:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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Fury Fan Offline
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Posts: 3,533
Indiana
with Swingin'. Do the wagon as the toy, upgrade the RC as needed for your daily driver in the winter.

Using my poorman's budget (and assuming all teh time in the world), I would put a 5.2 or 5.9 Mag in the RC (with the factory EFI and ECU) so it is reliable for your VF work in the winter. More power & better MPG than the TBI system you have. Do this over the summer so that all bugs are worked out by wintertime. An OBD1 setup would be the simplest choice. Replace the plenum gasket, upgrade it to a Hughes plenum plate if you are concerned about the gasket blowing again (or put that $85 toward teh $750 Airgap intake they sell, which is reportedly a fabulous upgrade). That intake might wok better in the lighter Dakotas than in your RC, but read their website and draw your own conclusion.

If you want Maggie upgrade ideas/info, look up posts by Patrick, HotRodDave and Scratchinfortraction, they have lots of good low-buck smallblock knowledge.

After that, I'd do the same to teh wagon, but try to get a 5.9, and then plan boost upgrades on it.


Parts I seek: driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set 16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better. 69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields Send a PM.
Re: Some suggestions please [Re: Fury Fan] #653467
03/31/10 12:33 PM
03/31/10 12:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
Quote:

with Swingin'. Do the wagon as the toy, upgrade the RC as needed for your daily driver in the winter.

Using my poorman's budget (and assuming all teh time in the world), I would put a 5.2 or 5.9 Mag in the RC (with the factory EFI and ECU) so it is reliable for your VF work in the winter. More power & better MPG than the TBI system you have. Do this over the summer so that all bugs are worked out by wintertime. An OBD1 setup would be the simplest choice. Replace the plenum gasket, upgrade it to a Hughes plenum plate if you are concerned about the gasket blowing again (or put that $85 toward teh $750 Airgap intake they sell, which is reportedly a fabulous upgrade). That intake might wok better in the lighter Dakotas than in your RC, but read their website and draw your own conclusion.

If you want Maggie upgrade ideas/info, look up posts by Patrick, HotRodDave and Scratchinfortraction, they have lots of good low-buck smallblock knowledge.

After that, I'd do the same to teh wagon, but try to get a 5.9, and then plan boost upgrades on it.




Save the boost for the wagon and keep the RC as your dependable daily driver instead of tinkering with it too much. If you want a project for it, a mpi magnum 360 would be a nice upgrade netting you more power and better throttle response.

Re: Some suggestions please [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #653468
03/31/10 01:12 PM
03/31/10 01:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
FWIW my friend ran 10.90's in a 67 Valiant. Stock bottom end 360, home ported magnum heads, headers, 510lift cam, M1 intake (I think), holley 750DP and 8psi of boost via Pro-Charger, He bought almost everything used. 727 auto 3.91's.

Re: Some suggestions please [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #653469
03/31/10 08:31 PM
03/31/10 08:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 151
MotorCity
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MotorCity
I talked to a friend of mine this morning. He has a 95 B3500 Maxi van that he rolled a couple months ago. He said I could have it for $250. It has a 360 magnum, with a 518 and only has 82,000 miles. He just wants it out of his yard. This will give me almost everything I need to do the swap.

The wagon is going the sleeper route. It's a stripped down, no frills car with rubber mats, vinyl bench and AM radio. It was a fleet car I believe, as I've seen 2 exact twins to it running around. I've got a 85 360 that is going in that and I will be putting a hair dryer on it.

Re: Some suggestions please [Re: RC91] #653470
04/01/10 08:10 AM
04/01/10 08:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Brookeville, Md
Here's my home made S/C set-up. I had about $2100 into it, including fuel system upgrades, gauges, bungs, carb prep and BOV. I could have done it for a few hundred less but I wanted the welds to look nice. Dropped my mild 440's et by about a second w/o any tuning and only w/ 6psi of boost.

5900231-sc2aa.JPG (40 downloads)
Re: Some suggestions please [Re: Mr.Yuck] #653471
04/01/10 09:49 AM
04/01/10 09:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 151
MotorCity
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RC91  Offline OP
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MotorCity
A S/C is not out of the question on the wagon. It may be more initial outlay of $$, but in the end it would work out in the wash. The ability to run a conventional exhaust system is a plus with them.

Re: Some suggestions please [Re: RC91] #653472
04/01/10 10:30 AM
04/01/10 10:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Brookeville, Md
If you run a SB you can use a unit off a 5.0 or SBC and it will push enough air. You can buy used and re-manned units on e-bay for under $1800 complete. you will then have to modify the bracets or make your own. I used a piece of 3/8" plywood for a template. It's easier to fab that then exhaust for a turbo. I used a SB pulley and had it drill for a BB mopar. Machine shop charger me like $50. Said it would have been $20 but it was the odd ball off set damper I used.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: Some suggestions please [Re: Mr.Yuck] #653473
04/01/10 11:41 AM
04/01/10 11:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Manitoba, Canada
I have the same supercharger unit as above, Paxton SN2000. I bought it off ebay for 850 bucks I think. Previous owner had thrown a rebuild kit at it and it came with the upgraded impellor(a near $200 upgrade). The tech specs on these things seem to be a closely guarded secret, but after enough hunting I did finally manage to dig up all the info on them. Now I'm just trying to figure out if it's going to flow enough to build any boost on a decent 440 combo w/ aftermarket heads, but everything I read seems to indicate these things are right at home on a small block where a big block is pushing them to the limit.

Re: Some suggestions please [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #653474
04/01/10 12:31 PM
04/01/10 12:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

I have the same supercharger unit as above, Paxton SN2000. I bought it off ebay for 850 bucks I think. Previous owner had thrown a rebuild kit at it and it came with the upgraded impellor(a near $200 upgrade). The tech specs on these things seem to be a closely guarded secret, but after enough hunting I did finally manage to dig up all the info on them. Now I'm just trying to figure out if it's going to flow enough to build any boost on a decent 440 combo w/ aftermarket heads, but everything I read seems to indicate these things are right at home on a small block where a big block is pushing them to the limit.




worked well with mine. You can upgrade to an 8psi pulley. I think mine was off a Ranger PU. Never ran it w/ the 8....sold it while I was in the staging lanes. Would have been an easy 11 second pass. I think it would have run 11's w/ different gears and the 6psi. I was running 3.91's. i think 3.73's would have been better.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: Some suggestions please [Re: Mr.Yuck] #653475
04/04/10 10:43 AM
04/04/10 10:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 151
MotorCity
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MotorCity
I've been giving a lot of thought to setting up the wagon. The B3500 Van that I bought for the 360 magnum does have a full floating Dana 60 with 4.10's. I will be using that after narrowing, installing standard housing ends, Moser axles, and either a detroit locker or spicer suregrip, and 3.55's. I'm going to back half the car using a 4 link and coil overs and mini tub it. I'm not going for the pro street look, Just enough room for a 10.5 tire but building it strong enough to handle high HP from the start instead of a after thought. I'll be connecting the back half to the front subframe and using solid aluminum blocks in place of the rubber bushings on the K member. I will be installing a 6 point roll bar in it also.

I want to keep this stock looking as possible from the outside anyway, and plan on using cop wheels with dog dishes and having the rear wheels widened. My plans are to get all the chassis work complete this summer and start on the motor afterward. I'm not sure about the 360 yet as I have a 70 383 and a 72 400 available too. I'm pretty sure I'm going either procharger or paxton though. I like the turbo idea, but after reading about all the plumbing nightmares both here and on other sites, the S/C's are looking like the better choice for the confines of a F body.

Re: Some suggestions please [Re: RC91] #653476
04/05/10 10:40 AM
04/05/10 10:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Brookeville, Md
the 472 based 400 is a good motor, but a SB would be an easier fix I think. Booth will work, you'll need more boost w/ the 360 to make the same numbers as the 400. Just make sure you get good A/F numbers and either will last.

Re: Some suggestions please [Re: Mr.Yuck] #653477
04/05/10 11:23 AM
04/05/10 11:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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If you do go s/c, make sure you buy a unit upfront that's going to flow enough to support your goals. I bought mine for a decent price, but if I had to do it all over again I would spend the extra $ on a unit with a higher flow. You would rather have a unit with some capacity to spare than one you have to push to the limit.

Re: Some suggestions please [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #653478
04/06/10 10:48 PM
04/06/10 10:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 151
MotorCity
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MotorCity
Quote:

If you do go s/c, make sure you buy a unit upfront that's going to flow enough to support your goals. I bought mine for a decent price, but if I had to do it all over again I would spend the extra $ on a unit with a higher flow. You would rather have a unit with some capacity to spare than one you have to push to the limit.




That is one of my biggest concerns with a S/C. Getting one that won't flow enough. I'm not planning on a ton of boost from the start, but I don't want to end up with the S/C running maxed out from the start and only making 6lbs either. I'd like some room to play with it.

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