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Re: Prototype HEMI???? #643861
03/28/10 08:59 AM
03/28/10 08:59 AM
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Quote:

He put one in the Tom Hoover small block notchback Cuda.



In the article that was posted above it said that the notchback Barracuda was an original 440 car, now I'm curious which is it.

Quote:

Here's a couple of pics of it in Tom Hoover's notch back Cuda (also was a S & M car) which has since been sold.



Does anyone know for sure if this was a small block or big block car, was it a M-code notchback Barracuda originally, anyone ever look at the VIN# of this car.

Re: Prototype HEMI???? #643862
03/28/10 09:25 AM
03/28/10 09:25 AM
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Quote:

2.





Is this a different engine build, because notice the #'s stamped on the pad of this RB block, as compared to the other low deck B block. There must be more of these ball stud hemi heads floating around, because I've heard that there were a couple of motors or parts & pieces that may have survived over the years.

Re: Prototype HEMI???? [Re: StripeHOG] #643863
03/28/10 10:43 AM
03/28/10 10:43 AM
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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A fine example of the accountants beating the engineers over the head with cost/benefit print-outs ("those rocker parts cost $84.62 to make!!"), and made them re-invent the 1963 Chevrolet Mk I engine.

Advantage 1: cheaper
Advantage 2: fewer parts
You get the point...

But, if it's cheaper and works as well...?
Examine the chamber vs. piston dome: no quench, no swirl, horrible emissions, high knock sensitivity. Bad idea, wouldn't pass smog, just a historical curiosity.


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Re: Prototype HEMI???? [Re: polyspheric] #643864
03/28/10 10:55 AM
03/28/10 10:55 AM
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Wonder if there is any relationship between this engine and the Australian 'Hemi' six?

Re: Prototype HEMI???? [Re: rustbuckett68] #643865
03/28/10 12:05 PM
03/28/10 12:05 PM
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Quote:

Wonder if there is any relationship between this engine and the Australian 'Hemi' six?




Yes. In both cases the term 'Hemi' was just a marketing tool and has no technical merit.

Re: Prototype HEMI???? [Re: @#$%&*!] #643866
03/28/10 12:16 PM
03/28/10 12:16 PM
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I have read that the 'Hemi' six was developed in the US as a replacement for the leaner (possibly cancelled for production costs) in the late sixties. The reason I asked was that the head layout looks similar. The Aussies did complete the production work IIRC. 302 HP from a 265 six! Must have been a good design. Too bad it never made production.

Re: Prototype HEMI???? [Re: polyspheric] #643867
03/28/10 03:28 PM
03/28/10 03:28 PM
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What about this monster, "the doomsday hemi" who owns this thing now.




Re: Prototype HEMI???? [Re: Race&Resto] #643868
03/28/10 03:39 PM
03/28/10 03:39 PM
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Columbus, Ohio
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I remember seeing that in one of the mags years ago. Was'nt that supposed to be the NASCAR engine that never was?

Re: Prototype HEMI???? [Re: Race&Resto] #643869
03/28/10 03:45 PM
03/28/10 03:45 PM
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That's the one I want, though that cam belt looks a bit weak for my needs. I don't think that one was ever really developed. It's a lot harder to design an overhead cam setup than a stud-rocker setup. I seriously doubt that Chrysler would have built those even if the sanctioning bodies approved.

Cory

Quote:

What about this monster, "the doomsday hemi" who owns this thing now.





Re: Prototype HEMI???? [Re: @#$%&*!] #643870
03/28/10 04:14 PM
03/28/10 04:14 PM
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That overhead cam engine was never meant to be nor did it function. The whole point was to make Nascar believe that if they allowed Ford's SOHC motor to compete then Chrysler would develop and produce their version. In actual fact, the cams in this motor were driven by an electric motor when they brought the Nascar officials in to see it. And they never let them get very close or they would have noticed that it was a pretty crude "prototype". The ploy worked.

Re: Prototype HEMI???? [Re: Race&Resto] #643871
03/28/10 04:51 PM
03/28/10 04:51 PM
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Quote:

Here's a couple of pics of it in Tom Hoover's notch back Cuda (also was a S & M car) which has since been sold.



Does anyone know for sure if this was a small block or big block car, was it a M-code notchback Barracuda originally, anyone ever look at the VIN# of this car.That car was definitly an M code car. When originally raced it had a 513" cheater wedge motor in it built by Jake King. It was originally owned by Bryce Ader,under M&L motors sponsorship of Lexington Ky & did not lose one round of racing in SS/FA in 1969. Bryce traded the car to Sox & Martin in 1970.




Re: Prototype HEMI???? [Re: @#$%&*!] #643872
03/29/10 10:05 AM
03/29/10 10:05 AM
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It's a lot harder to design an overhead cam setup than a stud-rocker setup

But not that hard to convert a pushrod hemi to SOHC - modify the rocker ends and run the cam down the middle where the pushrods came up.


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Re: Prototype HEMI???? [Re: polyspheric] #643873
03/29/10 10:22 AM
03/29/10 10:22 AM
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Spokane Washington
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Quote:

My biggest question is why the $#&$#*&* would they put a Fram filter on it?




....Or a Holley carb, or the orange (BBC style) valve covers, or......


Re: Prototype HEMI???? [Re: Stanton] #643874
03/29/10 11:31 AM
03/29/10 11:31 AM
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Quote:

Dual overhead cam Hemi.

A pair of 426 dual-overhead cam Hemis might have been produced in 1964 to counter Ford's response to the 1964 426 Hemi, the 427 SOHC, but when NASCAR ruled against Ford's engine, there was no need for the overhead-cam Hemi.

Neither of the DOHC Hemis were ever placed in a car; one was destroyed, the other moved to the Kansas City area. (source: Muscle Car Review. Thanks, Stéphanie Dumas.) Recently, famed engine builder Larry Shepard told us that he has the A-925 cylinder head and other related parts, purchased from the late Dan Napp.

An article by Tom Shaw in Mopar Muscle went into more detail. The DOHC Hemi was project A-925, and it would need to be much more powerful than Ford's SOHC 427, but still rugged enough for racing - and able to conform to NASCAR's rules. Two possibilities were considered, according to Shaw - one using two cams positioned between the heads, in the "valley;" four valves on each cylinder were operated by lifters, pushrods, and lifters. This expensive setup was an unused contingency plan. Nearly as ambitious was an engine with aluminum heads, dual overhead cams, and, again, four valves per cylinder, with pent-roof chambers. (Chrysler had been working with four valve per cylinder engines for a never-completed Indy run in 1963.)

The dual-plane intake manifold had eight runners per side (Chrysler was into efficient and innovative intakes) and made of magnesium - but designed for a single four-barrel carburetor, as required by NASCAR.

The cams were driven by a cog belt, using external cog wheels at the front of the heads. Because the cams were directly above the valves, valvetrain mass was low, so the engine could rev high - a 7,000 rpm redline was specified, high for the era.

Shaw wrote that no DOHC Hemi ran under its own power; they were driven by an electric motor to check the valvegear. Research stopped in 1964 when NASCAR banned the SOHC 427 and Chrysler's own race Hemi. One Chrysler DOHC Hemi reportedly still exists.

Jon Field wrote that there was a third (at least) Mopar DOHC Hemi made — and that he owns it, a 301 cid aluminum-block-and-head engine with twin cams, two cam covers on each head (the plugs are between them), hydraulic tappets, brass valve seats, and four Weber two-barrel carbs (165 cfm each). He says the oil pan holds 10.6 quarts, and that the engine has stainless steel headers, and an aluminum intake; it is apparently functional and runs on regular gas. We don't have any information on where it came from and whether it's a Chrysler effort or an aftermarket modification.

Meanwhile, Chrysler alumnus and historian (of The Ramchargers) David Rockwell told Mopar Action that the A925 engine was a fake — a completely nonfunctional piece meant to impress Bill France into banning Ford’s SOHC engine (Stewart Pomeroy agreed). The one engine was run by an electric motor. The story goes that Chrysler racing chief Ronnie Householder learned about the ban from Bill France, and the engine was then destroyed.




Did a search and found this older moparts thread on the different types of Hemi heads made.

Re: Prototype HEMI???? [Re: b1dartsport] #643875
03/29/10 10:38 PM
03/29/10 10:38 PM
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Salisbury North Carolina
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Quote:




Quote:

Here's a couple of pics of it in Tom Hoover's notch back Cuda (also was a S & M car) which has since been sold.



Does anyone know for sure if this was a small block or big block car, was it a M-code notchback Barracuda originally, anyone ever look at the VIN# of this car.That car was definitly an M code car. When originally raced it had a 513" cheater wedge motor in it built by Jake King. It was originally owned by Bryce Ader,under M&L motors sponsorship of Lexington Ky & did not lose one round of racing in SS/FA in 1969. Bryce traded the car to Sox & Martin in 1970.










It was M&L motors in Lexington NC.Yes it was a M code car.Lenny


Post deleted by Defbob [Re: 8secDart] #643876
03/30/10 12:30 AM
03/30/10 12:30 AM

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