moog offset bushing install??
#637829
03/12/10 01:28 PM
03/12/10 01:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,033
Madison, Wisconsin
chrisnben
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,033
Madison, Wisconsin
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Has anyone used the K7103 offset UCA bushings? Which direction is the correct installation? There is an arrow on the bushing. Any help would be great! Didn't want to install them and be wrong- once they're in that's it! thanks!!!!
'70 Cuda "Badfish 2"- in the works
Home of MoPar University- We school 'em one at a time!!
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Re: moog offset bushing install??
[Re: chrisnben]
#637831
03/12/10 05:25 PM
03/12/10 05:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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just visualize that the UCA and bushings are all soft putty and you are pulling the upper ball joint rearward by hand to increase positive caster. This would pull the cam bolt hole closer to the inside edge on the front bushing and the cam bolt hole closer to the outside edge on the rear bushing
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: moog offset bushing install??
[Re: RapidRobert]
#637832
03/12/10 07:21 PM
03/12/10 07:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,033
Madison, Wisconsin
chrisnben
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,033
Madison, Wisconsin
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Thanks guys, wonder why the damn instructions say to put each bushing in tha same way- both arrows outward?? Makes sense to put them opposite. 
Last edited by chrisnben; 03/12/10 07:26 PM.
'70 Cuda "Badfish 2"- in the works
Home of MoPar University- We school 'em one at a time!!
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Re: moog offset bushing install??
[Re: chrisnben]
#637834
03/12/10 10:02 PM
03/12/10 10:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,453
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 27,453
So Cal
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Quote:
Thanks guys, wonder why the damn instructions say to put each bushing in tha same way- both arrows outward?? Makes sense to put them opposite.
We are altering the originally intended use of these offset bushings.
They were made for rust buckets and past collision damaged cars that have the shock towers bent in.
So ignore the instructions in the box if you are looking for increased caster.
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Re: moog offset bushing install??
[Re: RapidRobert]
#637836
08/04/10 04:00 PM
08/04/10 04:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,719
Space Station #5
471Magnum
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,719
Space Station #5
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So... how much camber can you gain back with these?
Having issues on my 72 RR. Alignment tech doesn't think the bushings will get the job done. Suggests a frame pull.
I'm more inclined to spend $300 on adjustable A-arms.
Last edited by 471Magnum; 08/04/10 04:01 PM.
-Jim
I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman.
He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it.
Currently Mopar-less
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Re: moog offset bushing install??
[Re: 471Magnum]
#637837
08/04/10 04:52 PM
08/04/10 04:52 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
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Quote:
So... how much camber can you gain back with these?
Having issues on my 72 RR. Alignment tech doesn't think the bushings will get the job done. Suggests a frame pull.
I'm more inclined to spend $300 on adjustable A-arms.
Don't let him pull the frame until you have SAI numbers and an understanding of them!
http://www.anewtoronto.com/wheel%20alignment.html
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Re: moog offset bushing install??
[Re: 471Magnum]
#637838
08/05/10 02:15 AM
08/05/10 02:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,453
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,453
So Cal
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Quote:
So... how much camber can you gain back with these?
Having issues on my 72 RR. Alignment tech doesn't think the bushings will get the job done. Suggests a frame pull.
I'm more inclined to spend $300 on adjustable A-arms.
What alignment numbers is he getting now? What alignment feature is he having problems with (caster, camber, toe)? How much experiance does the alignment technician have?
If it is so messed up that offset bushing can not help, maybe it should have a frame pull. Is there indication of a past hit?
Are you running poly strut bushings. They are thicker than stock and you can remove about 3/16" from the sleeve and rear bushing to get the stock thickness and will aid in getting caster.
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Re: moog offset bushing install??
[Re: autoxcuda]
#637839
08/05/10 08:16 AM
08/05/10 08:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,719
Space Station #5
471Magnum
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,719
Space Station #5
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LF
Camber -0.6
Caster -0.9
Toe -0.18
RF
Camber -1.2
Caster -0.6
Toe -0.10
First thing I asked was whether or not he checked the ride height. He hadn't, which led me to believe he hadn't aligned many Mopars. I later checked it myself at home and it was pretty low, so I set it to spec. Before and after I spot checked the camber with a carpenters level. There is about 1/4"-1/2" of negative camber on each side.
Car was pulled from the scrap heap and completely restored. No sign of collision damage, but there no history on the car either.
I think all the bushings are stock.
Last edited by 471Magnum; 08/05/10 08:34 AM.
-Jim
I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman.
He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it.
Currently Mopar-less
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Re: moog offset bushing install??
[Re: 471Magnum]
#637840
08/05/10 08:51 AM
08/05/10 08:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,065
Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,065
Niles , Ohio
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With those numbers if he cant get caster and camber to at least positive 2 degrees caster and about .5 camber run dont walk.I had like neg 5 degrees on my 65.Installed the offsets and Im about at 0 on caster.I do my own alingments so I know where its right.Id like a bit more caster but my cars a rust bucket and Im not spending 300 bucks on tube A arms.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: moog offset bushing install??
[Re: 471Magnum]
#637841
08/05/10 12:48 PM
08/05/10 12:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,453
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 27,453
So Cal
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Moog offset should be able to get that to stock specs. The question now is the effort and talent of the alignment guy. What are the positions of the front and rear UCA cam adjusters on both sides? Pictures of the cams like I took above? Quote:
LF
Camber -0.6
Caster -0.9
Toe -0.18
RF
Camber -1.2
Caster -0.6
Toe -0.10
First thing I asked was whether or not he checked the ride height. He hadn't, which led me to believe he hadn't aligned many Mopars. I later checked it myself at home and it was pretty low, so I set it to spec. Before and after I spot checked the camber with a carpenters level. There is about 1/4"-1/2" of negative camber on each side.
Car was pulled from the scrap heap and completely restored. No sign of collision damage, but there no history on the car either.
I think all the bushings are stock.
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Re: moog offset bushing install??
[Re: autoxcuda]
#637842
08/05/10 01:47 PM
08/05/10 01:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,719
Space Station #5
471Magnum
master
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master
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Space Station #5
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I know the rear bolts are pretty much at the end of their travel to the outboard. The front ones have some room to work.
As far as the talent of the alignment guy, I really can’t say. The shop I took it to does a lot of specialty work though which is the only reason I considered bring it there in the first place. In the past, I’ve used another shop across town and had pretty good luck with my Mopars.
Just to be clear, he only checked the alignment. He did not attempt to correct it because he did not think there was range left in the cam bolts to get it were it needs to be.
-Jim
I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman.
He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it.
Currently Mopar-less
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Re: moog offset bushing install??
[Re: 471Magnum]
#637843
08/05/10 02:45 PM
08/05/10 02:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,453
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 27,453
So Cal
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You're not way way off. You need more postive camber. If you install the 7103 offset like the instructions in the box where both front AND rear bushings move BOTH a-arm legs OUT you will be fine. Like WildBill posted, "Both inward would give you the most possible positive camber." Offsets even installed to gain caster like the diagram above might work. That or try and see how much you can move the front adjuster outward. Is the front cam adjusted inward, outward, or middle now? Quote:
I know the rear bolts are pretty much at the end of their travel to the outboard. The front ones have some room to work.
As far as the talent of the alignment guy, I really can’t say. The shop I took it to does a lot of specialty work though which is the only reason I considered bring it there in the first place. In the past, I’ve used another shop across town and had pretty good luck with my Mopars.
Just to be clear, he only checked the alignment. He did not attempt to correct it because he did not think there was range left in the cam bolts to get it were it needs to be.
Last edited by autoxcuda; 08/05/10 02:50 PM.
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Re: moog offset bushing install??
[Re: 6o4o]
#637846
09/03/10 04:36 AM
09/03/10 04:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,453
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 27,453
So Cal
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Quote:
autoxcuda - wouldn't you want the max. negative camber or why do you propose to get max. positive camber? I thought that's not good for turns and you want max. neg. camber?
In general, yes you would.
But in 471Magnum's case he has to much negative camber and the UCA's adjusted all the way outward (toward positve camber) and he is still too much in the negative range. It appears he is out of adjustment range. It's like the shock towers are both bent inwards.
So if he installs the offsets to push the UCA's out, he gets in the -0.25 to +0.25 range or more and still have adjustment left to get some positve caster out of it.
In 471Magnum's case, you use the offsets as a repair type deal to make up for something bent/wrong. You install the offset depending which way things are bent.
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Re: moog offset bushing install??
[Re: autoxcuda]
#637847
09/16/10 07:50 PM
09/16/10 07:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,719
Space Station #5
471Magnum
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,719
Space Station #5
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So... what's the maximum additional camber that you can achieve with the offsets? Just guesstimating some dimensions and doing a little trigonometry, I'm thinking about 1 degree max. 
-Jim
I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman.
He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it.
Currently Mopar-less
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