First start troubleshooting gurus - need help
#629955
03/03/10 08:06 PM
03/03/10 08:06 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 348
Texas Hill Country
Centerline
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 348
Texas Hill Country
|
Newly rebult 331 hemi. 3 Rochesters (correct setup with correct outer carbs), Small block Mopar electronic distributor and orange box. Taylor wires, Isky hydraulic cam, etc.
First start attempt - It wanted to start and would catch for a couple seconds but would not start. Excellent oil pressure.
Things I have confirmed:
Distributor timing is correct (not 180 out).
Missing ballast resistor bypass (added now).
Outer carbs removed and replaced with steel plates.
Center carb Rochester 2G removed and disassembled - found small aluminum ball under accellerator pump missing (will replace when reassembled).
Can anyone else think of what might need to be checked before I try this again??
Thanks
Last edited by Centerline; 03/03/10 08:08 PM.
Centerline
64 Dodge Polara 426 Street Wedge - For when I want to go fast
99 Corvette Z-06 - For when I want to turn corners
|
|
|
Re: First start troubleshooting gurus - need help
[Re: peabodyracing]
#629957
03/03/10 09:07 PM
03/03/10 09:07 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 348
Texas Hill Country
Centerline
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 348
Texas Hill Country
|
Well, the ballast resistor bypass should help with the spark. I removed the outer carbs just in case there was some sort of vacuum leak. Also allows access to the idle adjustment screws on the center carb. I rebuilt the carbs and like you its been a long time since I messed with Rochesters so disassembling the carb was just maninly to check my work. I'm quite sure I installed the aluminum ball during the rebuild so I might have lost it while emptying the carb of fuel during disassembly.
Thanks for the help.
Centerline
64 Dodge Polara 426 Street Wedge - For when I want to go fast
99 Corvette Z-06 - For when I want to turn corners
|
|
|
Re: First start troubleshooting gurus - need help
[Re: Centerline]
#629958
03/03/10 09:46 PM
03/03/10 09:46 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
|
I'd take off the coil neg pri wire and ground this coil terminal like Morse Code and see if the coil wire held 1/4" from ground sparks (check w ign "on" and "crank" (take off solenoid wire 1st to disable the starter). I would get the timing marks @10 BTDC #1 compression then set the reluctor dead on the magnet slot, recheck the plug wire firing order and w all that cranking I would regoop the cam lobes/lifter bottoms
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: First start troubleshooting gurus - need help
[Re: RapidRobert]
#629959
03/03/10 11:26 PM
03/03/10 11:26 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 528
SW CO
HemiSportFury
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 528
SW CO
|
Quote:
recheck the plug wire firing order
and the direction of rotation. I've rebuilt a lot of engines and every one fired almost immediately on start up. But after not doing one for several years a 383 would fire and act like it wanted to start but not catch. I checked and rechecked the firing oder, rotated the distributer while chanking and it would fire but not start. Finally, duh! right firing order, wrong direction. Reversed the order and fired right up.
I hate getting old!
'64 Sport Fury, 528 Hemi, FiTech EFI, 4-speed, 4.10 Dana 60
'57 Belvedere 2dr sedan, current project in process
'19 Cherokee Trail Hawk Elite
'03 Ram 2500 CTD HO, 6-speed 214,000 miles and still going strong
|
|
|
Re: First start troubleshooting gurus - need help
[Re: HemiSportFury]
#629960
03/04/10 12:28 AM
03/04/10 12:28 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 348
Texas Hill Country
Centerline
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 348
Texas Hill Country
|
Distributor rotation and firing order checked and rechecked several times. Initial timing set to 7 degrees BTDC. I'll check the coil though.
This is the first one I've had that has done this. Could also be a bad distributor pickup I supose. Its the one part that isn't new.
Centerline
64 Dodge Polara 426 Street Wedge - For when I want to go fast
99 Corvette Z-06 - For when I want to turn corners
|
|
|
Re: First start troubleshooting gurus - need help
[Re: 4BBodies]
#629962
03/04/10 08:40 PM
03/04/10 08:40 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 348
Texas Hill Country
Centerline
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 348
Texas Hill Country
|
The coil is new.... however it is a Summit brand coil and is probably one of those elcheapo Chinese jobs. This is the second one as I had to send the original back because it was leaking oil. If what I've done so far doesn't solve the problem I'll be looking at replacing the distributor pickup and the coil.
Centerline
64 Dodge Polara 426 Street Wedge - For when I want to go fast
99 Corvette Z-06 - For when I want to turn corners
|
|
|
Re: First start troubleshooting gurus - need help
[Re: Centerline]
#629963
03/16/10 07:57 PM
03/16/10 07:57 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 348
Texas Hill Country
Centerline
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 348
Texas Hill Country
|
UPDATE:
Readjusted the valves (just in case some were too tight) also corrected a vacuum leak and got the engine started. HOWEVER..... it will not idle and can't get it above 1800 rpm. Runs VERY rough.
I'm thinking its either a carb (Rochester 2G) problem or an ignition problem. I'm currently running a Mopar electronic distributor and orange box and was thinking about just sticking a points distributor on to see if that solves the problem.
I rebuilt the carb and after the initial failed attempt at starting this thing I disassembled it again and cleaned it before reassembly.
Any more thoughts from you experts???? I'm just not a good troubleshooting guy.
Centerline
64 Dodge Polara 426 Street Wedge - For when I want to go fast
99 Corvette Z-06 - For when I want to turn corners
|
|
|
Re: First start troubleshooting gurus - need help
[Re: Centerline]
#629964
03/16/10 08:02 PM
03/16/10 08:02 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
|
recheck your timing/firing order/vac leak. EDIT the more I think about this I'm thinking massive vac leak but is this an open plenum intake and the (1) carb is (temporarily) feeding all (8) cyls?
Last edited by RapidRobert; 03/16/10 08:29 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: First start troubleshooting gurus - need help
[Re: RapidRobert]
#629965
03/16/10 09:44 PM
03/16/10 09:44 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 348
Texas Hill Country
Centerline
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 348
Texas Hill Country
|
Quote:
recheck your timing/firing order/vac leak. EDIT the more I think about this I'm thinking massive vac leak but is this an open plenum intake and the (1) carb is (temporarily) feeding all (8) cyls?
Correct. A tri-power intake with the front and rear carbs removed and blocked off with metal plates.
Center carb only at the moment. Timing is set at 10 degrees BTDC and it starts fine. Have about 20 degrees at 1800 rpm but can't get it to go any higher. Firing order has been confirmed 4 or 5 times... first thing I thought of.
It is possible I supose that the block has been decked or heads shaved enough to have a miss match between the intake and heads but it "looks" OK. Don't know how I would check that very easily.
Last edited by Centerline; 03/16/10 09:48 PM.
Centerline
64 Dodge Polara 426 Street Wedge - For when I want to go fast
99 Corvette Z-06 - For when I want to turn corners
|
|
|
Re: First start troubleshooting gurus - need help
[Re: Centerline]
#629966
03/16/10 10:24 PM
03/16/10 10:24 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
|
20 deg total @ 1800 and it will not rev any higher than 1800 or 20 mechanical + the (10) initial and the advance wont go higher?. I'm racking my brain & nothing is hitting me yet
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: First start troubleshooting gurus - need help
[Re: RapidRobert]
#629967
03/16/10 11:13 PM
03/16/10 11:13 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 228
northeast texas
strokin73cuda
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 228
northeast texas
|
Can tou spray carb cleaner or starting fluid at the point the intake mates to the heads and see if it idles faster revealing a vaccuum leak without harming your engine paint? Sounds like a bad vac leak to me too. My intake is at the machine shop right now after deck bieng cut .018 and new heads being milled .020 (if I remember right) the lower part of the intake at the ports didn't even touch the gaskets, I used a brush to paint the intake (orange same color as engine)where it mates against the gasket then quikley bolted it to the heads to check port match, thats when I found the problem, it only left paint on the upper portion of the gaskets. If not it also sounds like when I used to wash the engine bay of a car I used to own, not saying yours is wet but maybe a cracked rotary button or cap crossfiring under a load.  Sorry to here your having so much trouble getting it going though, I hate when that happens. Good luck and hope you find it soon.
496 stroker,Indy srs , new best 6.87 @ 98 1.46 60'
|
|
|
Re: First start troubleshooting gurus - need help
[Re: strokin73cuda]
#629969
03/17/10 12:43 AM
03/17/10 12:43 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 348
Texas Hill Country
Centerline
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 348
Texas Hill Country
|
Quote:
Can tou spray carb cleaner or starting fluid at the point the intake mates to the heads and see if it idles faster revealing a vaccuum leak without harming your engine paint? Sounds like a bad vac leak to me too. My intake is at the machine shop right now after deck bieng cut .018 and new heads being milled .020 (if I remember right) the lower part of the intake at the ports didn't even touch the gaskets, I used a brush to paint the intake (orange same color as engine)where it mates against the gasket then quikley bolted it to the heads to check port match, thats when I found the problem, it only left paint on the upper portion of the gaskets. If not it also sounds like when I used to wash the engine bay of a car I used to own, not saying yours is wet but maybe a cracked rotary button or cap crossfiring under a load. Sorry to here your having so much trouble getting it going though, I hate when that happens. Good luck and hope you find it soon.
The more I think about this it does sound like some kind of vacuum leak. Unfortunatly, if the intake isn't mating correctly to the heads the only place that it would leak is on the under side. Don't know if I could spray anything there. Maybe just removing the intake and checking to see how the gaskets were compressed might help.
Rotor and cap along with just about everything else is new although I suppose one or the other could be bad. Never had this kind of problem on any of the motors I've built before, thank God, but this one has me stumped.
|
|
|
Re: First start troubleshooting gurus - need help
[Re: HitIt]
#629971
03/17/10 12:40 PM
03/17/10 12:40 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 348
Texas Hill Country
Centerline
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 348
Texas Hill Country
|
Isky cam from HotHeads with a SB Mopar double roller timing chain and gears. Cam was lined up dot to dot with #1 cylinder at TDC so it should be correct. This isn't a race engine so it wasn't degreed in.
Centerline
64 Dodge Polara 426 Street Wedge - For when I want to go fast
99 Corvette Z-06 - For when I want to turn corners
|
|
|
|
|
