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I'm considering sleeving my 440 to get the bore size down and make some serious power.Who makes the thickest sleeves?

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Don't be such a fool man...
Everyone knows you gotta double sleeve it for extra strength!
I think Cometic even makes 'MLS', Multi Layered Sleeves

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This thread has become the proverbial rubber necking car wreck. Maybe time for a little mod intervention.

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Please don't! This is much more entertaining (and educational) than that stupid "Epic Silly Thread" in the General section...

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Hey Ghost, I'm not perfect either, nor right
all the time. I gotten some really good posts from you, as well as some other members. Thanks
for the "education without the BIAS", Ghost. Just
remember we are all still "learning" and I'm no
GURU. Hats off to you all.
NOTE: I will try to answer your questions to the
best of my ability.

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your answers are based upon opinion, conjecture and theoretical modifications of builds written up in this (and maybe other) forum threads.

YOU HAVE NOT PROVIDED ANY PERSONAL QUANTITATIVE DATA FOR YOUR HYPOTHESES EITHER FROM DYNO OR DRAG STRIP PERFORMANCE NUMBERS.

Due to this, your answers are about as legitimate and trustworthy as half the people who put up "forum" knowledge due to stuff they read from other people, who have read from other people, who have actually done the work.
413's are not special blocks, its the owners of them who believe they are.

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i guess if i had "GURU" or "MASTER" or some QUANTITATIVE title under my user name then I would be believed.. wouldn't pull the wool over anybodies eyes..

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Oh boy! Another 413 food fight! I can talk about motorhome 413's because I've got one and built it nearly 30 years ago. Here's a short list of things I pitched when I got my motor home 413:

Heads got swappped for 440 items.
Intake from Weiand.
Couldn't use the cam or even the cam sprocket because the MH 413 version I had used a gear driven cam that turned backwards.
Rockers and pushrods.
Water pump and housing.
Balancer.
Oil pan.
Distributor and drive gear.
Pistons.
Exhaust manifolds.

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One more,in 65 Chrysler had a single 4bbl 413,rated at 360HP,10.10 comp,470 ft lbs torque,the 66 and later non HP 440's were rated at 350 horse,480 ft.lb torque. Even if you compare with a HP 440 at 375 horse,torque is still the same 480 ft.lbs,that's only 15hp and 10 ft.lbs of torque with 27 more cu.in.than the 413, with the old 516 heads and all three had the same comopression ratio.

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good point. if you go buy hp/ci the 360hp the 413 made should equate to 383hp for the non-hp 440 with superior cylinder heads.
seems the 440 is missing 33hp mabey that 225 \6 got it.

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I've heard Andy is secretly working on a new book.
Here's a sneak preview...






Just ribbin' ya Andy!

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LMAO! I don't check this thread out for nearly a week and look what I miss! That was a good one, thanks for the laugh!

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One more,in 65 Chrysler had a single 4bbl 413,rated at 360HP,10.10 comp,470 ft lbs torque,the 66 and later non HP 440's were rated at 350 horse,480 ft.lb torque. Even if you compare with a HP 440 at 375 horse,torque is still the same 480 ft.lbs,that's only 15hp and 10 ft.lbs of torque with 27 more cu.in.than the 413, with the old 516 heads and all three had the same comopression ratio.

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good point. if you go buy hp/ci the 360hp the 413 made should equate to 383hp for the non-hp 440 with superior cylinder heads.
seems the 440 is missing 33hp mabey that 225 \6 got it.

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One more,in 65 Chrysler had a single 4bbl 413,rated at 360HP,10.10 comp,470 ft lbs torque,the 66 and later non HP 440's were rated at 350 horse,480 ft.lb torque. Even if you compare with a HP 440 at 375 horse,torque is still the same 480 ft.lbs,that's only 15hp and 10 ft.lbs of torque with 27 more cu.in.than the 413, with the old 516 heads and all three had the same comopression ratio.

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Correct on all accounts.

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I never buy lottery tickets, but will this week. If by chance I would win millions, some lucky engine shop will be building several 413s and 440s.

And on top of that, we will need to find a 1962 300 to get some baseline performance figures, then pull out the 413. build a 440 with the exact same CR (rotating assembly only) finishing up the 440 with the parts from the 413.

My point- $$$ is the only way to do a true apples to apples comparison. Build the 413 and the 440 side by side using the EXACT same components/specs (with the exception of the 440s larger bore)

There really is no sense in debating it, the only way to put this to rest is spending $$$.

Why dont the mods feed this thread a tall glass kool-aid....

btw- the only advantage the 413's smaller bore has over the 440 is less parasitic friction.

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I couldn't agree more with ya.

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One more,in 65 Chrysler had a single 4bbl 413,rated at 360HP,10.10 comp,470 ft lbs torque,the 66 and later non HP 440's were rated at 350 horse,480 ft.lb torque. Even if you compare with a HP 440 at 375 horse,torque is still the same 480 ft.lbs,that's only 15hp and 10 ft.lbs of torque with 27 more cu.in.than the 413, with the old 516 heads and all three had the same comopression ratio.

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good point. if you go buy hp/ci the 360hp the 413 made should equate to 383hp for the non-hp 440 with superior cylinder heads.
seems the 440 is missing 33hp mabey that 225 \6 got it.

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Two points:

1. The 360hp version of the 413 had a hotter cam than the 350hp 440. (The New Yorker 413 had a milder cam than either of them and a 340hp rating.)

2. In the 50's and 60's, advertised horsepower ratings were often more about marketing than real horsepower. One of the worst examples was a 1958 Ford 352 that was supposed to have 300 horsepower but only made 200 actual horsepower on an engine (not chassis) dyno.

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well i'm convinced. i'll be putting a chainsaw motor in my bee next weekend 'cause i wanna go REAL fast.

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Hey Ghost, I'm not perfect either, nor right
all the time. I gotten some really good posts from you, as well as some other members. Thanks
for the "education without the BIAS", Ghost. Just
remember we are all still "learning" and I'm no
GURU. Hats off to you all.
NOTE: I will try to answer your questions to the
best of my ability.

---

your answers are based upon opinion, conjecture and theoretical modifications of builds written up in this (and maybe other) forum threads.

YOU HAVE NOT PROVIDED ANY PERSONAL QUANTITATIVE DATA FOR YOUR HYPOTHESES EITHER FROM DYNO OR DRAG STRIP PERFORMANCE NUMBERS.

Due to this, your answers are about as legitimate and trustworthy as half the people who put up "forum" knowledge due to stuff they read from other people, who have read from other people, who have actually done the work.

413's are not special blocks, its the owners of them who believe they are.

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That is YOUR opinion, and by you posting it in
this forum, we can either rebuke it or respect
it. I do respect other opinions of this forum,
however, when it comes to singiling out a mill
to be the "ULTIMATE", I draw the line. AS I SAID
EARLIER, in this forum, not EVERYBODY has a 440.
There is definitely nothing wrong with the 440,
it makes great power, is very streetable and in some chassis can be your worst nightmare, if you are lined up against it. I am speaking for the
guys who do not have 440's but 413's. 413's can be
made to run AS hard as a 440, built differently. It
will definitely scare 440's enough not to pick on
it either at the track or on the "street". 413's
are definitely no slouches !!! ALL I am basically
saying is, if you 440 guys want to pick on your
"slightly younger 413 bretheren", you just might
get shut down badly. They will definitely hold their own anywhere.
I would watch who you'd pick a fight (run) with.
AS for a DYNO or Personal data on the power output
of the 413, don't need it!! The Ramcharger Race
Club/Team, Dick Landy, Dick Maxwell, Al Eckstrand
and nearly two dozen or more Chrysler Engineers/
Racers and Engine Builders provided enough race
clinics, speed parts and technical info. so that
WE WOULD NOT BE BICKERING ABOUT WHO'S THE
SUPERIOR MILL. If that was the case, Mopar performance, again "FOR THE READING IMPAIRED",
would not have GROUPED the 413 and the 440 in the
SAME performance buildup menu. Enough said, Just
run with what you have and be happy.

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I'm considering sleeving my 440 to get the bore size down and make some serious power.
Who makes the thickest sleeves?

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You would be better off stroking it. You would
gain some more low-midrange torque in the
below 4000 rpm range.

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if you 440 guys want to pick on your
"slightly younger 413 bretheren",

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I'm considering sleeving my 440 to get the bore size down and make some serious power.
Who makes the thickest sleeves?

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You would be better off stroking it. You would
gain some more low-midrange torque in the
below 4000 rpm range.

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413's can be
made to run AS hard as a 440, built differently.

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Hey Ghost, I'm not perfect either, nor right
all the time. I gotten some really good posts from you, as well as some other members. Thanks
for the "education without the BIAS", Ghost. Just
remember we are all still "learning" and I'm no
GURU. Hats off to you all.
NOTE: I will try to answer your questions to the
best of my ability.

---

your answers are based upon opinion, conjecture and theoretical modifications of builds written up in this (and maybe other) forum threads.

YOU HAVE NOT PROVIDED ANY PERSONAL QUANTITATIVE DATA FOR YOUR HYPOTHESES EITHER FROM DYNO OR DRAG STRIP PERFORMANCE NUMBERS.

Due to this, your answers are about as legitimate and trustworthy as half the people who put up "forum" knowledge due to stuff they read from other people, who have read from other people, who have actually done the work.

413's are not special blocks, its the owners of them who believe they are.

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By the way, you talk about timeslips. you had
not indicated what chassis, you wanted to see
the mill in. Secondly, as far as the 413's and
MAX-WEDGE 413's, you can go to any HISTORICAL
CHRYSLER PERFORMANCE WEBSITE and look up the
info on 413 road tests and performance data. I
do not use OTHER FORUMS to gather data. MY own
personal experiences and data from Chrysler
tech books, Direct Connection (now) Mopar
Performance and constantly talking to local racers/builders as well as Chrysler Techs. MY
opinions are not "gospel", but I CAN point you in
the "right way" for more performance. If I am
wrong, I do admit it. When I am right, I have
info to back it up. Opinions I respect most,
unless they either make no sense or you're trying
to be an "irritant". If the latter, your wasting
YOUR time.