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more front susp ? #62033
05/23/08 09:54 AM
05/23/08 09:54 AM
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Ontario, Canada
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dodge41 Offline OP
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I always thought the Must. II suspension idea was automatically over 2K, that's why I wasn't considering the idea, and was thinking more the Dakota or Volare route. But in one of the threads about LAWFISH's coupe, Mopar Ron mentioned that if you shop right you could do the Must. II front for around 1K.
Ron, can you explain to a newby about this, like what brakes, control arms, and rack and pinion etc you can install? I always thought you had to put on must II control arms etc that came with the crossmember, but is there other after market stuff that also works?
I figure it wouldn't take long to put 1K into a volare/diplomat or Dakota by the time it's all in there. Especially with the way scrap prices are around here I can't seem to do someone a favour and tow away piece of junk out of their yard without them wanting $300 or $400 for it. Sorry for bringing this subject up again.
TIA
Matt

Re: more front susp ? [Re: dodge41] #62034
05/23/08 10:19 AM
05/23/08 10:19 AM
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Cambridge Idaho
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Quote:

I always thought the Must. II suspension idea was automatically over 2K, that's why I wasn't considering the idea, and was thinking more the Dakota or Volare route. But in one of the threads about LAWFISH's coupe, Mopar Ron mentioned that if you shop right you could do the Must. II front for around 1K.
Ron, can you explain to a newby about this, like what brakes, control arms, and rack and pinion etc you can install? I always thought you had to put on must II control arms etc that came with the crossmember, but is there other after market stuff that also works?
I figure it wouldn't take long to put 1K into a volare/diplomat or Dakota by the time it's all in there. Especially with the way scrap prices are around here I can't seem to do someone a favour and tow away piece of junk out of their yard without them wanting $300 or $400 for it. Sorry for bringing this subject up again.
TIA
Matt





Great question and exactly what I was going to ask in my thread--- YES old Yoda of street rods, please teach us more- MUST LEARN TO SAVE hard earned duckets!!!!--LAWFISH

Re: more front susp ? [Re: dodge41] #62035
05/23/08 12:00 PM
05/23/08 12:00 PM
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Escondido, CA. Ron Podsiadly,...
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OK here is some more info about frontends
the volare' and Dakota frontend are great units but you have to watch how wide they are in some cars, as they are about 2-3" wider per side than a mustang II set up depending on wheels.

I like to use the stock mustang II cradel but they take a few hours of triming to get them cleaned up and ready to put on, most of them I get for free or with a parts car.

I recommend the fatman frontend as he makes them for just about everything, most after market frontends can run from $250.-$600. for the crossmember. I think fatmans frontends are $399.
and for the first time rod builder the fatman stuff fits and works out well and are easy to install.

I like the Tube A armes and they can be bought for around $299. and brakes can be bought for $50 for the 5 lug rotors, racks and be had for around $99.00, I use stock springs that come with the frontend that I pick up or you can get new springs, spindels can be stock or dropped ones, I like the stock ones, Big brake kits can run around $300.-$450. again shopping around can get good pricing.

crossmember $400.
A arms $250.
spindles $160.
Rack $100
springs $ 50
brakes $100- $350.

that is for most of the stuff that you would need to have a mustang II frontend.
so like I said they can be done closer to $1000. than $2000. with wise shopping.
Now if you want one stop shopping you can get everything at one place but you probably will pay more.


here are some stuff on ebay but there are other places to find mustang II parts. Ron....

$55.00 for a pr rotors

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MUSTANG-I...0253108962&



$145 for dropped spindles

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mustang-I...0250641124&


$99 for a rack and pinion

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/74-78-Mus...0052062101&


$265 for tubular A armes

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mustang-I...0227270527&


stainless a armes

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MUSTANG-I...0052069130&




here is a complete frontend, just not for mopar
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/37-38-39-...0222444286&


and this one too

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Heidts-Mu...0061399081&


and another

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/35-36-37-...0224576971&



check around this guys site for more must II stuff

http://stores.ebay.com/Fatrodders-Rod-Parts_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZ0QQftidZ2QQpZ2QQtZkm

Re: more front susp ? [Re: Mopar Ron] #62036
05/23/08 01:57 PM
05/23/08 01:57 PM
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Thayer, MO
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bohmer2 Offline
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Good information here. I just picked up a Dakota front setup for $50.00 from a 1990. So I got the rack, spindles and even roller wheels, of course it needs going over and through so in the end I will need to put new brakes on it, new ball joints, clean and paint, bearings, etc. So there are benefits of finding parts cars, I am sure this is similar to what Ron gets in his parts cars for MII setups. You have to figure out what your time is worth and what your capable of and in some cases it may be cheaper and better served to go get a fatman or other front stub.

But like Ron says width is important in many cases it is easier to add spacers to push wheels out than it is to get wheels to sit back in deep on a wide front end. Also, lots and lots of support in the aftermarket for the MII with spindles, rack n pinions etc.

Re: more front susp ? [Re: Mopar Ron] #62037
05/23/08 02:22 PM
05/23/08 02:22 PM
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Cambridge Idaho
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Quote:



OK here is some more info about frontends
the volare' and Dakota frontend are great units but you have to watch how wide they are in some cars, as they are about 2-3" wider per side than a mustang II set up depending on wheels.

I like to use the stock mustang II cradel but they take a few hours of triming to get them cleaned up and ready to put on, most of them I get for free or with a parts car.

I recommend the fatman frontend as he makes them for just about everything, most after market frontends can run from $250.-$600. for the crossmember. I think fatmans frontends are $399.
and for the first time rod builder the fatman stuff fits and works out well and are easy to install.

I like the Tube A armes and they can be bought for around $299. and brakes can be bought for $50 for the 5 lug rotors, racks and be had for around $99.00, I use stock springs that come with the frontend that I pick up or you can get new springs, spindels can be stock or dropped ones, I like the stock ones, Big brake kits can run around $300.-$450. again shopping around can get good pricing.

crossmember $400.
A arms $250.
spindles $160.
Rack $100
springs $ 50
brakes $100- $350.

that is for most of the stuff that you would need to have a mustang II frontend.
so like I said they can be done closer to $1000. than $2000. with wise shopping.
Now if you want one stop shopping you can get everything at one place but you probably will pay more.


here are some stuff on ebay but there are other places to find mustang II parts. Ron....

$55.00 for a pr rotors

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MUSTANG-I...0253108962&



$145 for dropped spindles

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mustang-I...0250641124&


$99 for a rack and pinion

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/74-78-Mus...0052062101&


$265 for tubular A armes

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mustang-I...0227270527&


stainless a armes

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MUSTANG-I...0052069130&




here is a complete frontend, just not for mopar
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/37-38-39-...0222444286&


and this one too

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Heidts-Mu...0061399081&


and another

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/35-36-37-...0224576971&



check around this guys site for more must II stuff

http://stores.ebay.com/Fatrodders-Rod-Parts_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZ0QQftidZ2QQpZ2QQtZkm




Ron, thanks a ton for the info.

Ok I still have a few question since I dont know mustang 2 items, ect.

1: I see you chose some chevy rotors? Will the standard mopar rotors like for an e /B body or later vehicle like a dakota, work with the mustang 2 items. The chevy rotors are a different style wheel pattern?

So if a guy found a nice parts car and the fatman cross member, he can use most of the parts on it?

I am thinking I prefer new items for a nice driver, but I have no idea what later mod vehicles parts can be used with the mustang 2 front?

Dave

Re: more front susp ? [Re: RUMBLON] #62038
05/23/08 02:59 PM
05/23/08 02:59 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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dodge41 Offline OP
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Wow Ron that was exactly what I was looking for, it cleared up a lot. I will definetely consider the Mustang II route now! Like I said before, I always thought if you bought a Fatman Mustang II cross member, that the other parts that it needed could only come from Fatman also. Thanks again for the info guys, I'm sure I will come up with more questions.
Matt

Re: more front susp ? [Re: dodge41] #62039
05/23/08 03:50 PM
05/23/08 03:50 PM
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The tubular A-arms are what take the suspension out of the "junk" look and make it more presentable, plus they are more rigid.
The MII front suspension was the best thing on the whole car! It spawned an industry. Thousands and thousands of MII-geometry front ends are on the street under everything from Model As to pickups.

R.

Re: more front susp ? [Re: dogdays] #62040
05/23/08 05:46 PM
05/23/08 05:46 PM
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Escondido, CA. Ron Podsiadly,...
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OOPS sorry Dave I just went to ebay and picked some mustang II items to show you what is out there,didn't notice they were chevy pattern. the rotors are available with either chevy (4 3/4") or mopar and ford(4 1/2") bolt patterns. or for about $100. extra you can go with heh BIG brake kit that uses intermediate GM or fairmount/granada rotors for the 4 1/2" pattern. basicly the difference is the caliper bracket is the extra $100. difference and you use gm calipes with the ford rotors to get the 11" brake setup.
you can do the frontend on the cheap or step up for things like big brakes,tubular A arms or stainless A arms, power or manual rack and pinion, stock or braided brake lines, there is all kinds of stuff available for these frontends.

but like I said above I think fatman is the only one that makes a crossmember for the mopars
the one that I did from him was fro 2X3 tubing for a willys that I did and it took about 45 minutes to have the whole thing set in place and tack welded, I measuers a second time and them welded it up, it couln't have been any easier Ron...



P.S.If anyone want to talk to me about differt stuff on these streetrod just PM and I'll give you my phone #
if there is any way I can help you out just ask.....



here is a big brake kit

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MUSTANG-2...emZ110023596471

big brake kit for $285.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MUSTANG-I...0224509197&



here is a big kit with dropped spindles, the shipping is the thing to watch and shop around for.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MUSTANG-I...53235QQtcZphoto


calipers and brakets

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MUSTANG-I...53993QQtcZphoto

rotors

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-FORD-...16165QQtcZphoto

better rotors

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-FORD-...28634QQtcZphoto



another kit

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MUSTANG-I...25607QQtcZphoto



and more mustang II stuff here:

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/items/mustan...3286.m104.l1198

Last edited by Mopar Ron; 05/23/08 05:51 PM.
Re: more front susp ? [Re: Mopar Ron] #62041
05/23/08 07:32 PM
05/23/08 07:32 PM
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SE Wisconsin
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I went the way bohmer2 went, dakota from local pick n pull, $38.

Re: more front susp ? [Re: 49wayfarer] #62042
05/23/08 09:33 PM
05/23/08 09:33 PM
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Escondido, CA. Ron Podsiadly,...
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talking about the Dakota chassis, how about this car with a Dakota chassis under it, it looks like it fits very nice ramman 16248 posted these pics in daves other thread Ron...






Re: more front susp ? [Re: Mopar Ron] #62043
05/24/08 08:03 AM
05/24/08 08:03 AM
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north of coder
moparx Online content
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i agree with ron...get a kit [or the separate parts there of] to do the deal. i got talked into not using a straight axle on my humpback, but at the time, i didn't want to spend $1300 on a kit. so, i bought a bunch of books & learned about theory & design of front suspensions, then fabbed my own. 3 years [and then some] later, it was done......i wished i woulda got a kit. it would have been lots faster. but then, i can say "i built it"........

Re: more front susp ? [Re: moparx] #62044
05/24/08 10:29 AM
05/24/08 10:29 AM
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Cambridge Idaho
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Quote:

i agree with ron...get a kit [or the separate parts there of] to do the deal. i got talked into not using a straight axle on my humpback, but at the time, i didn't want to spend $1300 on a kit. so, i bought a bunch of books & learned about theory & design of front suspensions, then fabbed my own. 3 years [and then some] later, it was done......i wished i woulda got a kit. it would have been lots faster. but then, i can say "i built it"........




Love the long rams !!!!!!!!!! I know where a set is but that means a bigblock and thats a whole other situation.

Dave

Re: more front susp ? [Re: RUMBLON] #62045
05/24/08 02:54 PM
05/24/08 02:54 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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dodge41 Offline OP
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Well I'm glad I asked this question because I've learned a ton about it now. I have some time, since I just dragged the truck home and haven't started anything yet, so I will keep my eye out for a reasonably priced Dakota junker, while I also look into the Mustang II idea.
And Ron someday I may just take you up on that call offer.
Matt

Re: more front susp ? [Re: dodge41] #62046
05/24/08 04:49 PM
05/24/08 04:49 PM
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Yep, we are going totally different directions. I too have learned a lot of the mopar yoda master and others but I am going to go with all brand new parts on this car. I want the sweet stainless upper a arms and some cool parts on it.

However, I am also going to find a dakota doaner or two because I will find more mopars stuff, oldies that is and I want a total RATROD and will use those parts for a short distance driver ratrod evil car.

LAWFISH

Re: more front susp ? [Re: RUMBLON] #62047
05/25/08 09:27 AM
05/25/08 09:27 AM
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dodge41 Offline OP
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I could still go either way, the all brand new idea would be my first choice. But, the major reason I'm still considering the Dakota front end is that my Dad is a front end mechanic at a Dodge dealership, so things like used but good racks, tie rods etc. are all things I'm sure he has scavenged and kept around his house and garage over the years. My friends used to call my dad's house "Kenny autoparts", as he is a bit of a pack rat.
And again thanks for all the informative replies.
Matt

Re: more front susp ? [Re: dodge41] #62048
05/25/08 10:56 PM
05/25/08 10:56 PM
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Escondido, CA. Ron Podsiadly,...
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I like threads like this as they let people know what different ways to go and what might work good for them and their budget.

My Squattie truck is mounted on a dodge D50 chassis that is all stock all the way down to the 6 lug rearend, now that truck hasen't proven itself yet but should be on the road soon,everything seams to be working out great so far

my old COE was on a 73 dodge 3/4 ton chassis and that went together great and drove fantastic.

we have 2 46 style PUs going on dakota chassis right now and they are going good too.

my old humpback had a Volare' frontend under it and I loved the ride. but if I did one now it would go mustang II as it didn't sit as low as I would like one to set now.


My new COE is mounted on a 1 ton duelly chevy chassis(because I had it) and they make good chassis' for car haulers

my race truck is on a 90's toyota frame that will have a mustang II frontend mounted to it and a ladderbar rear suspencion with a Dana ..

So as you can see some frontends or chassis' work out better than others depending on what you are building. Ron.....

Last edited by Mopar Ron; 05/25/08 11:01 PM.
Re: more front susp ? [Re: Mopar Ron] #62049
05/27/08 12:13 PM
05/27/08 12:13 PM
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dodge41 Offline OP
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Ron, threads like this and the people that contribute to them are priceless, what did we do before the internet?

What years of dakota's should you look for? Or does it even make a difference? I've read something about some newer years having 6 bolt wheels, can this be easily changed to 5 bolt?
Matt

Re: more front susp ? [Re: dodge41] #62050
05/27/08 01:02 PM
05/27/08 01:02 PM
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Thayer, MO
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Quote:

Ron, threads like this and the people that contribute to them are priceless, what did we do before the internet?

What years of dakota's should you look for? Or does it even make a difference? I've read something about some newer years having 6 bolt wheels, can this be easily changed to 5 bolt?
Matt




Matt,
Up to 1990 dakota were 5 lug with 4.5 spacing. in 1991 it changed to 6 lug with 4.5 pattern, but the chassis remained the same until 1996 as I understand it. So the spindles remained the same so you should be able to replace the rotor and hub assembly from an early 5 bolt dakota with the 91-96 dakota.

Re: more front susp ? [Re: bohmer2] #62051
05/27/08 02:01 PM
05/27/08 02:01 PM
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Escondido, CA. Ron Podsiadly,...
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Brian is right all you need to do with the 6 lug trucks is to change to the earlier 5 lug rotors, and in the rear I believe I read somewhere that a "B" body 8 3/4 is almost a drop in, in the dakota.
the one going under my 46 panal truck is going to stay 6 lug as I allreay have some nice wheels for it but the next one will get changed over to the 5 lug and 8 3/4 rearend Ron...

Re: more front susp ? [Re: Mopar Ron] #62052
05/27/08 02:25 PM
05/27/08 02:25 PM
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dodge41 Offline OP
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Thanks again guys, I figured it was something fairly simple.

The rear that came in the frame I got with the 41 pick up is actually an 8 3/4. It has the casting number 1820657, which from the tech section here tells me it was made between '57 and '64. So that's a plus. It's a little wider than the stock front track width, but maybe it will wind up being close to the same as a Dakota width.
Matt







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