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Wire guage #618622
02/20/10 12:15 PM
02/20/10 12:15 PM
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70duster340 Offline OP
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What guage wire is the main power feed on the harness under the dash? This is for a 1970 Duster. Mine needs replaced, and I want to be sure to get the correct size wire for the job. Would a larger guage be a better idea?

TIA!!!

Re: Wire guage [Re: 70duster340] #618623
02/20/10 04:44 PM
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larger would be better. I think it is 12,but not sure. I currently run 8.

Re: Wire guage [Re: 70duster340] #618624
02/20/10 04:52 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

Would a larger guage be a better idea?


yes but unless you upgraded everything I'd think there would be a smaller gauge somewhere in the circuit which would still limit flow.I'd say you'd be better off cleaning EVERY connection & concentrate on why your main feed went out and possibly run Nacho's parallel bulkhead bypass (it's in the archives) and there's always the 8ga direct cable addition from the batt to the alt (w a 12ga fusible link)to consider. do you have stereos/amps or any similar additions? www.mymopar has wiring diagrams that may have the gauge listed for you on them.


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Re: Wire guage [Re: RapidRobert] #618625
02/20/10 07:32 PM
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70duster340 Offline OP
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Thanks for the replies. Robert, the main feed hasn't gone out. I'm off work on an injury, so I have time to kill. I was gonna go over the wire harness and fix any loose connections, and replace the main feed, since it looks shady to me. I plan on replacing that wire, along with the one for the ammeter (which I'm not sure I will use), and clean and/or replace any terminals that need it. The only addition I was gonna have was a graphic equalizer/amp, which is very small. The car will have no A/C, no power brakes, nor power steering. Manual windows and locks, as well. It's a 4-speed, too.

Any tips or suggestions???

Re: Wire guage [Re: 70duster340] #618626
02/20/10 08:13 PM
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Hey Robert, can you advise where the parallel bulkhead bypass is at? I tried to locate it, but didn't have any luck. Maybe I'm just missing it, but I would appreciate it if you could at least give me a link so I can study up on this.

Thanks much!!!

Re: Wire guage [Re: 70duster340] #618627
02/20/10 08:40 PM
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I swore it was in the archives but I could not find it either (& I have seen it there ). iirc on the bulkhead the 2 main in/out wires, the one "in" from the fusible link and the "out" wire to the alt you just run another one (two actually)wires (in effect)around the bulkhead to get by the problem of the great amt of current going thru the inadequate bulkhead connectors at those 2 points. If you have 2 unused connectors in the bulkhead just drill them out & run 2 wires thru there for the 2 parallel circuits. If not then drill 2 small holes in the firewall. www.madelectrical.com will have addt'l info for you. If I think of anything else I will holler.


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Re: Wire guage [Re: RapidRobert] #618628
02/20/10 10:37 PM
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Thanks, Robert. I did a search on Moparts, and did find some posts on the parallel bulkhead bypass. From what I can see, the M.A.D. way does away with the ammeter, and natcho's way keeps the ammeter in use. So, any idea which way is better? I was planning on using the stock gauges, which are in a rallye dash that came with the car, not installed. I have tested the gauges, and they all seem to function.

Re: Wire guage [Re: 70duster340] #618629
02/20/10 10:49 PM
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I'm old school I like the ammeter (& an added voltmeter) so I'm with Nacho's bulkhead bypass along with cleaning/checking EVERY connection (time consuming though) and since I never have a high flow (charging or discharging) I have no issues. At my age I dont even listen to the stock radio anymore . I'd rather listen to the eng (& my thoughts). If I had alot of draw inside the dash like you I'd run the batt positive over to the alt w an 8ga wire w a 12 ga fusible link which would alleviate the bulkhead shortcomings but would disable the ammeter


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Re: Wire guage [Re: RapidRobert] #618630
02/20/10 11:01 PM
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Appreciate the help, Robert. I still want to utilize the ammeter. Sorry, don't mean to be a PITA!

I did do an upgrade of sorts. I removed the old style glass fuse block, and installed a Painless fuse block (the kind that uses the blade type of fuses). Would this keep me from doing the upgrade?

Re: Wire guage [Re: 70duster340] #618631
02/20/10 11:22 PM
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Quote:

Appreciate the help, Robert. Sorry, don't mean to be a PITA! and installed a Painless fuse block (the kind that uses the blade type of fuses). Would this keep me from doing the upgrade?


No sweat bro as I have more time than money and nobody on here is paying to be here and it is all in the details that keep us on top of the chebby/furd guys who may not be so meticulous. The blade style MAY be more dependable/handle surges better than the old school glass ones(I never paid any attention to that subject as I never had any problems w the glass ones) but the other problem areas definitely cannot be overlooked plus a few reported problems w stock ammeters. The blade ones sure would be simpler to R&R. Keep it simple and (always) take care of the basics first for a solid foundation and the bulkhead is a Mopar problem area unfortunately along with an occaisional ammeter issue and concentrate on fixing the worst/weakest/most difficult problem/area before anything else.


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Re: Wire guage [Re: RapidRobert] #618632
02/21/10 04:50 PM
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Thanks, Robert. I don't really like the notion of running the wire through the bulkhead, just for the reason that it would make it a pain to get the bulkhead connector apart if needed. The idea of running the wires through the firewall using a grommet seems much more workable, since unplugging the bulkhead then would not be a problem.

I take it that natcho's way keeps the ammeter working? I was orginally going to use aftermarket gauges, but with a rallye dash, having only the fuel gauge working (well, and the speedometer, too) would seem such a waste. Since the sending units for the water temp and oil pressure are still available, I think I might go that route. I did consider an aftermarket dash (or maybe designing one myself), but that's in the future.

Anyway, can anybody advise if the installation of the Painless fuse block would preclude me from doing this upgrade? Should I consult with natcho first?

Thanks again!!!

Re: Wire guage [Re: 70duster340] #618633
02/21/10 11:43 PM
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BTT!

Re: Wire guage [Re: 70duster340] #618634
02/22/10 12:24 AM
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Quote:

I take it that natcho's way keeps the ammeter working?


yes just run 2 wires around the bulkhead to bypass it for the main feed in/out, and fix the wire under the dash that is bad/clean all connections & I think you will be troublefree from here on out.


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Re: Wire guage [Re: RapidRobert] #618635
02/22/10 01:02 PM
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Thanks, Robert. When I installed this new fuse block, I had some questions for the Painless techs. I was advised that by wiring up this fuse block as I did (according to the instructions), that it by itself bypassed the ammeter. How can I re-attach the ammeter?

Re: Wire guage [Re: 70duster340] #618636
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Quote:

How can I re-attach the ammeter?


at the bulkhead where the main lead comes from the battery to the starter relay then to the fusible link then it goes in/thru both halves of the bulkhead, well on the other side as this main feed wire exits the inside the car half of the bulkhead the ammeter needs to be spliced into that line (in series) so that it registers every bit of current that goes in or out of the battery (ex for the brief starter current of course) as the give and take at the battery is the bottom line. I've never used Painless' stuff, does it appear to be quality merchandise?.


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Re: Wire guage [Re: RapidRobert] #618637
02/22/10 10:37 PM
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OK, let me try to explain the situation. When I wired in the new fuse block, according to the instructions, the main feed wire, instead of routing it to the ammeter, it was routed to the fuse block. So, you are saying that I need to splice in the ammeter between the bulkhead and the fuse block? If so, that's not really a problem. However, what about the wiring upgrade where I run the 2 wires through the firewall? Can that still be done, and if so, how?

Thanks for your help, btw!!!

Oh yes, the Painless items are quality material, but there are so many different companies out there now that competition is tight! Even Summit is offering a universal harness now.

Re: Wire guage [Re: 70duster340] #618638
02/22/10 10:59 PM
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Quote:

So, you are saying that I need to splice in the ammeter between the bulkhead and the fuse block? However, what about the wiring upgrade where I run the 2 wires through the firewall? Can that still be done, and if so, how? Thanks for your help, btw!!!.


(1) yes (2)Yes, visualize the 1 parallel wire on the fusible link side coming around to the inside of the dash (backside of the bulkhead) where it T's back in, several inches rearward from that T splice is where you would cut the wire to add the ammeter leads (3) you're quite welcome on the help, my fellow (Moparts) members here save my bacon regularly.


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Re: Wire guage [Re: RapidRobert] #618639
02/22/10 11:19 PM
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Sorry, but this stuff gives me headaches!!! I'm sitting here with the harness in my lap, and I guess I'm just ignorant, but I'm not getting it at all. I mean, I can understand how to hook up the ammeter, but how does the other wire upgrade work? Do I need it after installing this new fuse block?

Also, can you advise what powers the dash gauges?

Thanks again!

Re: Wire guage [Re: 70duster340] #618640
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the long vertical line is the firewall, (1) is the starter relay, (2) & (3) are the black bulkhead halves, (4) is Nacho's bypass. (5) runs up to the stock ammeter in the dash but to add a different ammeter you would cut the line and run the two cut ends (5) & (6) to your new ammeter (7), Downstream from the ammeter goes to a T just like OE then it splits off and powers the headlight switch (8)(which is hot all the time), another split to the ign sw (9) which is hot all the time and splits again to the fuse block (stock or Painless)(10)(which is hot all the time) which protects everything downstream from it such as brake lights hazard flashers, horn, radio, dome light, accessories


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Re: Wire guage [Re: RapidRobert] #618641
02/23/10 12:14 AM
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OK, I think I got it now. However, if your drawing is good, I wired the fuse block incorrectly. I did it according to the directions, though. But, I guess all I need to do is wire the ammeter between the bulkhead and the fuseblock to make the ammeter work?

Also, can you advise which wire powers the gauges? This is for a rallye dash, btw. The fuse block has a terminal for powering the gauges, and I am considering using it. I have looked for a rallye dash wiring diagram, but haven't found one as of yet.

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