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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: kz5rt2]
#602132
02/02/10 10:45 PM
02/02/10 10:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
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Quote:
I forgot to mention, I'm looking at no more than a CR of 9.5:1.
Thanks
Why so low? Aluminum heads pull enough heat out to typically allow an extra point of compression without worries of detonation... & if you get the right combonation of parts to have effective quench thats good for another half point... Lots of streetable engine run 10.5-10.8 on pump fuel...
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: kz5rt2]
#602137
02/02/10 11:14 PM
02/02/10 11:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
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1_WILD_RT
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Quote:
Eventually I plan on installing a crossram setup. Didn't the max wedge/superstock manifolds flow well?
They flow as well as any manifold.. The just weigh a ton... But I think the cool factor is well worth it.. Unless your building a race car 500 inches means enough torque that you can leave a little on the table & still have an ear to ear grin... 
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: kz5rt2]
#602138
02/02/10 11:29 PM
02/02/10 11:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,992
Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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Oregon
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Look in the tech archives for plenty of 500 inch stroker builds. http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bigblock.htmlI also wrote an entire book on the subject which you can find at various Mopar parts dealers. I don't think you'll need the 3.91 gears if you build a 500 inch engine. 3.55 will work just fine as will 3.23 gears.
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: AndyF]
#602139
02/02/10 11:52 PM
02/02/10 11:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
67Charger
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master
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Erda, UT
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My 496" 440 source motor runs 10.4:1, .034" quench with the Eddie RPM heads and is faster on pump gas than on race fuel. The cam is .604"/.597", 264°/259° solid. I've spun it to 7000, and the timing is 18° initial and 34° total. After tuning it is putting out right at the 600HP mark and 600 ft.lbs from 3000 on.
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor
10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray
Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race
Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: ahy]
#602142
02/04/10 10:33 PM
02/04/10 10:33 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,954
Blairsden, CA
Triggerfish
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,954
Blairsden, CA
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Quote:
Quench means at least part of the piston comes very close to the head at TDC. The near contact stirs up the mixture to help cool it and prevent detonation. .040" clearnace is considered ideal and fairly easy to get with Ed or 440 Source heads. Set the flat part of the piston at zero deck (piston comes right up to the top of the block) and use a common .040" thick head gasket and you have it.
Careful piston choice, deck machining and/or custom pistons may be required to get 0 deck but the benefit is significant.
Very true & ceramic coatings for the combustion chambers & piston tops also can significantly prevent hot spots & detonation, so w/ quench, aluminum heads & coatings, you should have no problem w/ high compression.
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: kz5rt2]
#602143
02/04/10 10:34 PM
02/04/10 10:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
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So Cal
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I think you are ok, (cannot remember how they route) but you may want to check to make sure the angle plug of the Edelbrocks will work with your manifolds. Otherwise the straight plug Stealth will have to do.
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: cragar]
#602146
02/05/10 12:47 AM
02/05/10 12:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,497
Austin, TX
HemiDave
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Austin, TX
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Quote:
so 915 with .040 quench what compression can I run and still use pump regular or premium?
About 9.5:1 with the steel heads.
Dave
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: HemiDave]
#602148
02/05/10 01:14 PM
02/05/10 01:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 121
Detroit, MI
kz5rt2
OP
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Detroit, MI
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Quote:
Quote:
so 915 with .040 quench what compression can I run and still use pump regular or premium?
About 9.5:1 with the steel heads.
Dave
So. 10.5:1 is sufficient with the stealth heads and still run pump gas?
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: HemiDave]
#602150
02/05/10 02:47 PM
02/05/10 02:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,859
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,859
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
get the Stealth heads (they will be fine on the street)
They're gonna choke that poor thing !!
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: Stanton]
#602151
02/05/10 02:52 PM
02/05/10 02:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
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1_WILD_RT
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Quote:
Quote:
get the Stealth heads (they will be fine on the street)
They're gonna choke that poor thing !!
Depends on how he plans to use it.. If he plans to spin it to 6-6500 rpm's then yeah the Stealths will choke it but it he's willing to accept that it makes gobs of torque up to around 5200 rpm's & gears the car to use that torque than he'll have a engine that should live a long life & offer very respectable performance...
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#602152
02/05/10 03:04 PM
02/05/10 03:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
1968RR
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
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I have the cam you mention in my 440. You can afford to up the compression if you're using that cam. I have 11.5:1 compression ratio and run the car on 93 octane pump gas with no problems.
"When I'm in a slump, I comfort myself by saying if I believe in dinosaurs, then somewhere, they must be believing in me. And if they believe in me, then I can believe in me." - Mookie Wilson
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: 1968RR]
#602153
02/05/10 03:14 PM
02/05/10 03:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
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Quench Explained.... Take a coffee can ½ full of gasoline burning with slow flicking flame. Strike the can with a baseball bat and you have what I would call a “fast burn”, much like what we want in the combustion chamber. The fast burn idea helps our performance engine by shortening the overall burn time and the amount of spark lead (negative torque) dialed in with the distributor. If you go from 36 degrees total to 32 degrees total and power increases, you either shortened the burn time or just had too much timing dialed-in in the first place. If you have really shortened the burn time, you won’t need so much burning going on before Top Dead Center. Now you can retard timing and increase HP. Did you ever have an engine that didn’t seem to care what timing it had? This is not the usual case with a fast burn combustion but an old style engine with big differences in optimum timing cylinder to cylinder will need 40 degrees of timing on some and others only need 26 degrees. If you set the distributor at 34 degrees, it is likely that 4 cylinders will want more timing and 4 cylinders will want less ( V-8). Moving the timing just changes, which cylinders are doing most of the work. Go too far and some cylinders may take a vacation. Now what does quench really do? First, it kicks the burning flame front across and around the cylinder at exactly TDC in all cylinders. Even with spark scatter, the big fire happens as the tight quench blasts the 32 degree old flame around the chamber. Just as with the coffee can, big flame or small flame, hit it with a baseball bat and they are all big instantly. The need for custom cylinder-to-cylinder timing gets minimized with a good quench. The more air activity in a cylinder you have the less ignition timing you are likely to need. When you add extra head gaskets to lower compression you usually lose enough quench that it is like striking the burning coffee can with a pencil. No fire ball This was written by By John Erb & I copied it from a really good article here.. http://www.kb-silvolite.com/article.php?action=read&A_id=39
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: kz5rt2]
#602154
02/06/10 04:58 AM
02/06/10 04:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Balt. Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
so 915 with .040 quench what compression can I run and still use pump regular or premium?
About 9.5:1 with the steel heads.
So is 10.5 good with stealth heads and running 93 pump ??? Yes !
My 440 is stock stroke and .030 over (446) and I use the MP .557 solid cam. I use 906 open chamber heads that have been milled some and I have the KB quench pad pistons. I run right on 10.0 comp and at 37 total timing thats all in by 2000 rpm I have no ping at all with my iron heads. So an aluminum head eng using 11.0 with the right cam wil run fine on 93 pump. At 10.5 on aluminum heads you will be fine.
 Ron
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: kz5rt2]
#602156
02/06/10 10:41 AM
02/06/10 10:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,065
Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,065
Niles , Ohio
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The aluminum heads will be fine with the heavy manifolds.My stealths on my 440 run at 6800 and are still pulling when I shift.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: kz5rt2]
#602157
02/06/10 12:29 PM
02/06/10 12:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,859
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,859
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Anybody know if aluminum can support the weight?
The stealths have helicoils in the exhaust bolt holes so that really basically turns a 3/8" bolt into nearly a 1/2" bolt which does wonders to spread the load. I wouldn't worry about it.
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: kz5rt2]
#602161
02/06/10 03:00 PM
02/06/10 03:00 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,310
Prospect, PA
BSB67
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Prospect, PA
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Quote:
I've been trying to do some homework and I spoke with Edelbrock tech support about their heads. They stated I would not be able to run their heads due to the spark plug angle interfering with the superstock manifolds.
You can get the Eddy head with straight plugs. They are the "Mopar" head with a 452 casting #.
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: kz5rt2]
#602165
02/09/10 03:12 PM
02/09/10 03:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,497
Austin, TX
HemiDave
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master
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Austin, TX
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Yes. They look EXACTLY like factory heads...thus, the 'Stealth' moniker.
Dave
Last edited by HemiDave; 02/09/10 03:13 PM.
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: BSB67]
#602168
02/09/10 08:32 PM
02/09/10 08:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
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So Cal
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Exactly! That's because they are made by Edelbrock for Mopar Performance.
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: HemiDave]
#602169
02/10/10 11:18 AM
02/10/10 11:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
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Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Quote:
Quote:
so 915 with .040 quench what compression can I run and still use pump regular or premium?
About 9.5:1 with the steel heads.
Dave [/quote)
I dang sure dont agree with this statement. Im running 10.5 with open chamber iron heads, without any detonation problems. No quench whatsoever. Of course I have a decent sized cam, 259@.050, but 9.5 is on the conservative side.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: Von]
#602170
02/10/10 12:36 PM
02/10/10 12:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
so 915 with .040 quench what compression can I run and still use pump regular or premium?
About 9.5:1 with the steel heads.
Dave [/quote)
I dang sure dont agree with this statement. Im running 10.5 with open chamber iron heads, without any detonation problems. No quench whatsoever. Of course I have a decent sized cam, [Email]259@.050[/Email], but 9.5 is on the conservative side.
I agree with Von because as I said I am running 10.0 with 906 heads and no ping at all. I even run on 92 pump alot as thats all some of my local stations have. I do have fairly good quench as all cylinders are in the .040 to .042 area and I use the MP .557 cam. Ron
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Re: 500" Engine Build 440 Source?
[Re: kz5rt2]
#602172
03/01/10 12:25 PM
03/01/10 12:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Just a quick question. I had overheating problems on a prior engine that was bored out 0.060. I have two possible engines I can use, one is an early 440 that cleans up at 0.040 and the other is a late 440 with stock bore that would be 0.030.
I'm partial to using the early 440 at 0.040 bore, would this extra bore factor into any scenarios of overheating?
I would use the late 440. The later 440's gained a small amount of strength over the earlier ones and you can sell the earlier one to someone who cares about date codes.
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