in my 22 years as a mechanic.. never ever ran into this kinda problem. so here goes....

1997 neon, replaced the front pads, adjusted up the rear shoes and whoa, no pedal.
changed the master cylinder (bench bled), bled the brakes, still no pedal.
changed the m/c again, still no pedal. checked all the lines, wheel cylinder etc,
no leaks. bled them a 3rd and 4th time, still no pedal. when i mean no pedal..
i mean right to the floor. what the heck is going on here?

I've seen on these fwd chryslers, that it is very important to have a wheel nut holding the rotors in place when you put the calipers back on.

If not, it's easy for it to be installed cocked off to one side. Looks fine, but's it's crooked. The pedal travel is all taken up straightening it back out again.

The guy who did it in my shop had 30 plus years of trade experience, so it can happen to anyone.

Something to check anyway.

Start from the begining. What happened to need the brake swap? When you say no pedal does that mean it never pumps up or what?

just came in cause the pads where worn out. still had lots of pedal. changed the
front pads, the brake pedal went right to the floor, i told my helper its normal,
and just pump up the brakes. but they would not pump up. they just go right to the floor.

Dave571.. did the wheel nut to hold the rotor thing. thanks

I was sure it was the wind....

Are the caliper pistons pushed too far in so they are in a bind? Do they move when you pump the brake?

yah, there was enough there to hold the wheels. front and back. i also adjusted the rear shoes up.
i visually looked to see if the calipars and wheel cylinders were moving, they were.

Had an Itntepid at work with the same kind of problem.New pads all around and no pedal.Installed new master as it was bad still no pedal.It was the PP valve that is for non ABS brakes only.Couldnt get any pressure or fluid especially the rears.A new block from dealer and great brakes.Rocky

Maybe I'm too anal about brakes, but this is why when my brakes are about 5-7 years old and needing a pad change, I simply dive in and replace the ENTIRE brake system, including hard and soft lines. Yes, it's bucks, but it sure eliminates the frustrations kinda like you're going through now!

Of course, you say this is a customer's car, so they won't want to cough up the ching to do it, but for my personal vehicles, this is what I always do.

Money well spent, in my opinion!

pushed tooo far from the pumping right?

with it assembled did you check if the brake booster held pressure? if its the booster ...right to the floor, with a lil bit of a pop noise too.

Almost sounds like your master is too small. The first one may have been damaged or got something in the piston cup to cause the master bypass and go bad but the replacements do not have enough volume to pump up the brakes. After a couple quick pumps does the pedal come up?

I've always heard but never experience that if you push too much or too hard when bleeding the master you could damage it.

Another thing could be a big air buble in the system that got pushed in when the master was replaced. On some cars this air can be a total pain to remove with out pressure bleeding. Are you using a power bleeder or manually bleeding it?

Good luck

pedal woudn't come up no matter what. and yah.. manually bleeding it, no power
bleeder. if theres still air in it, its hiding pretty good . i'll try
gravity bleed it today, if that fails, then i'll change porportioning valve.
stupid neon messing up my whole long weekend

Make sure the bleeders are facing upward.

I just had a customer with the same problem. He didn't notice the calipers were upside down.

well they face to the "side". otherwise they are at its highest point.

When you compressed the pistons did you loosen the bleeders to relieve the pressure or force it back into the MC? If you forced it back to the MC you may have damaged the proportioning valve. Just a thought.

Got ABS?

If so there is a specific method to bleed them, the regular old style doesn't do it.

no abs. tried everything today, including replacing the p-valve. result? same thing

this thing is gonna be the death of me. did 100's of brake jobs.. replace the front pads,
adjust the rear drums, out the DOOR no problem. this thing is driving me

gonna save it to tuesday, get a vacuum bleeder and try again. thanks for the help
everyone

Trial and error. There are only a number of components. Check, check again, and then recheck.

Remember, NEVER count on "new parts" to be in working order, no matter what the box says.

Good luck, let us know what happens.

It can only really be two things...Master cyl or air...When you bench bled the master cyl did notice if fluid leaked out immediately after you pored in the fluid? (rule of thumb..if the fluid comes by the residual pressure valve immediately after pore put it back in the box) You've covered all the bases go back to the master...My guess is the check valve is not holding ...

CHRONiklyDEMONic.. i know never to trust "new" parts.. i will keep yall posted tho.

RobR.. damn near replace everything twice or three times (master cylinder).
Its gotta be air somewhere.. even tho the brakes bleed normally (ie: no air coming out).
m/c checked out just peachy.
It started out as a simple 15min change the pad thing.. which is now on day two.