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Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: HardcoreB] #574121 01/09/10 01:03 PM 01/09/10 01:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma V Von master
Von master V Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma	Quote: Also IMO there is no magic/phenomenon about these heads. X2. Very true, they are what they are. Nothing wrong with them, but nothing spectacular either. I bought my heads 9 years ago, got both of them, with studs, rockers, etc NIB for 900 or so....and they still have only 45 mins or so run time on them. No fault of the heads though. If I was in the market for a set, they would be at the bottom of my list, right above standard Stage VIs. Biggest drawback to me is the exhaust port height. To me you have a "street" head with a raised exhaust port. Header fitment with a RB is a frickin mess. A CNC'ed Eddy will flow almost as much, without the header fitment issues. 72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: pittsburghracer] #574122 01/09/10 01:04 PM 01/09/10 01:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma V Von master
Von master V Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma	Quote: These heads have to be opened up to max wedge size to make good numbers. Any flow numbers to back that statement up? 72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: HardcoreB] #574123 01/09/10 01:09 PM 01/09/10 01:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,918 Akron, Ohio ProSport I Live Here
ProSport I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,918 Akron, Ohio	Quote: Oil accumulates in the valvetrain area and makes a huge mess when removing the valvecovers unless the heads get modified. My 440-1 heads do this but I just jack up the back of the car to level the engine before removing the valve covers, unless the B1BS heads are pooling oil right along the VC rail. 1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: ProSport] #574124 01/09/10 01:46 PM 01/09/10 01:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,031 Shelby Twp. Mi HardcoreB master
HardcoreB master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,031 Shelby Twp. Mi	Quote: unless the B1BS heads are pooling oil right along the VC rail. Yessir, that is the problem area...nothing a bridgeport operater or amature machinist cannot fix. The drainback pathways are cast too horizontal. Especially between the valvecover rail and the spring pockets. Or you could roll the car side-2-side, then raise the front end before you remove the valvecovers.

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: Cab_Burge] #574125 01/09/10 02:33 PM 01/09/10 02:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 8,165 Left Coast B BobR master
BobR master B Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 8,165 Left Coast	Quote: I did a swap from a set ported 906 heads with 2.14 and 1.81 valves to a set of CNC ported Eddy RPMs and gained 2/10 and 4 MPH I beleive the stock out of the box B1-BS are better than the stock Eddy RPM as far as flow, my stock OOTB Eddy RPMs outflowed the ported big valve 906 heads On a 452 motor I went from a fully ported 906 to an OOTB(port matching only) BS head and went from mid 10's/128 to a best of 9.76/136. The small CC of the BS head upped my CR significantly(probably 2 full points) besides the better flow of the head itself. I also went from 1.5 to 1.6 rockers on the change.

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: BobR] #574126 01/09/10 03:56 PM 01/09/10 03:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 12,587 Great Neck,LI,new york hemi-itis I Live Here
hemi-itis I Live Here Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 12,587 Great Neck,LI,new york	Mike,Scott will bowl & port match them .Then just turn up the boost This conversation about n/a is not quite applicable HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: blownzoom440] #574127 01/09/10 04:17 PM 01/09/10 04:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 151 North Eastern New York State montessa member
montessa member Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 151 North Eastern New York State	Metalman, Dwayne Porter ran the dyno test as well porting the heads. The fastest Mph the car ran was 136. I had also talked with Dwayne about going to max wedge port window but, as was previously stated, the effort is not worth the gain. I was happy with the B1/BS heads over my old ported 906's however, they are limited to how much you can get out of them. I had the same issues with oil all over the place when removing the valve covers, a real pleasure when adjusting valves! Also, what a treat changing spark plugs. The easiest way I found was to plan on dropping the headers every time!

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: montessa] #574128 01/09/10 04:52 PM 01/09/10 04:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,031 Shelby Twp. Mi HardcoreB master
HardcoreB master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,031 Shelby Twp. Mi	Quote: I had the same issues with oil all over the place when removing the valve covers, a real pleasure when adjusting valves! Also, what a treat changing spark plugs. The easiest way I found was to plan on dropping the headers every time! Or just whip-up a custom set of headers. Also, I ground a channel around the valvecover rail AND added a small drain port intersecting the botton of edge of the valvespring seat. The fitting can be seen in the pic just below the valvecover hold-down stud. 5723372-Driverbs.jpg (164 downloads)

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: HardcoreB] #574129 01/09/10 06:23 PM 01/09/10 06:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan B1Fish540 master
B1Fish540 master Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan	I would very carefully remove the cover. the oil would be pooled in the back of the head right up to the lip. i would then slowly sop up the oil with a clean rag. i had minimal spillige doing it this way. TTI has headers now so you wont have to drop them to change plugs anymore like i used to do, too.

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: B1Fish540] #574130 01/09/10 07:08 PM 01/09/10 07:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440 OP
blownzoom440 OP B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	again,great info givin here! some1 is loaning me a plastic block to dummy up the heads in the car with the hooker supercomp 2" headers in a 69 staellite,man steering.some1 said thay had no trouble but i know each case has its own issues.i can move the engine a little with the ears on the engine.i wont get the MW port as i can make good use of the std port with boost.i dont change plugs very often once the carbs are dialed in.

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: blownzoom440] #574131 01/09/10 07:25 PM 01/09/10 07:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 140 sweden street_dart member
street_dart member Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 140 sweden	B1 BS ported to MW. indy intake. 500" 4.375" low deck. 13.7comp. 725/715" 276/286@050 rollercam 766Lbs@5100rpm 841Hp@6400Rpm eddy rpm ported standard port. team g. 500" low deck. 11.4comp. 590mopar cam. 649Hp@5900Rpm Same 1050 (9375)holley and same low deck. Dodge Dart-67 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer-55 Dodge Dakota 4.7 -05

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: HardcoreB] #574132 01/09/10 07:45 PM 01/09/10 07:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440 OP
blownzoom440 OP B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	Quote: Quote: ported or just cleanedup what did you gain in HP,ET or MPH.you can list your combo if you like but i am just lookinfg for results. Thanks for any info. As stated already the chambers are small. Can I assume that you will have to open the chambers to acheive your desired C/R? Off the top of my head the chambers have a good amount of "unnecessary" material. Which will cater to your advantage for flow increase. I want to say you can acheive 76+cc in an unmilled head while only sacrificing C/R.$$$ scott said today thay can be opened to 80cc and i was very worried about the cr as i did not want to change pistons.the block needs decked yet but the pistons should be .040 in the hole with 2.060 ch piston,3.75 stroke.6.76 rod,.043 gasket,80cc heads.4.350 bore.just over 9/1cr i think.let me go do the math.

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: blownzoom440] #574133 01/10/10 03:21 AM 01/10/10 03:21 AM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar master
451Mopar master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	When I bought my B1 B/S heads back in the early 1990's there was not many choices for aluminum heads. There was the Indy 440-1, the Mopar Stage VI, original B1, B1 B/S, and Stage V hemi conversion head. Indy came out with the S/R several years later after they filled the ports of a 440-1 for some engine shootout in either CarCraft or HotRod? Several years after that Edelbrock produced the performer head. I ordered my heads from Koffels with their stage 1 porting, rocker arms, pushrods, and sparkplugs. With shipping I think it was right at $3,000. A few years ago, I broke the intake valve head off the #4 cylinder. This may have been my fault as I neglected to change the valve springs. Anyhow, I was going to send the heads out for repair and do the max wedge cnc porting, but I decided to try out the new Edelbrock Victor heads. I know this is not the for sale section, but if anyone is interested in my old B1 B/S heads for $1,000 PM me.

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: blownzoom440] #574134 01/10/10 12:51 PM 01/10/10 12:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440 OP
blownzoom440 OP B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	when i get the heads i will measure the angle and offset on the headers and match them to my 346 heads.get some side by side pics.

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: street_dart] #574135 01/10/10 02:55 PM 01/10/10 02:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,441 Mo. S supercomp master
supercomp master S Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,441 Mo.	Quote: B1 BS ported to MW. indy intake. 500" 4.375" low deck. 13.7comp. 725/715" 276/286@050 rollercam [Email]766Lbs@5100rpm[/Email] [Email]841Hp@6400Rpm[/Email] eddy rpm ported standard port. team g. 500" low deck. 11.4comp. 590mopar cam. [Email]649Hp@5900Rpm[/Email] Same 1050 (9375)holley and same low deck. Did you get those from Tom (RT540)?

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: supercomp] #574136 01/10/10 03:27 PM 01/10/10 03:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 140 sweden street_dart member
street_dart member Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 140 sweden	Yes I bought them from Tom (RT540). I mill them .040" to get 13.7 comp with my flat topp pistons @ the deck and .039 gaskets. The heads are ported by the swedish legend Grottis in the -90�s. Nice heads works great! Dodge Dart-67 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer-55 Dodge Dakota 4.7 -05

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: 451Mopar] #574137 01/10/10 03:53 PM 01/10/10 03:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,031 Shelby Twp. Mi HardcoreB master
HardcoreB master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,031 Shelby Twp. Mi	Quote: A few years ago, I broke the intake valve head off the #4 cylinder. This may have been my fault as I neglected to change the valve springs. I just rebuilt a pair with new 'take-off's' early 90's era valves, rockers, springs, locks and retainers. I'll have to look at actual values but the springs were RUINED after a SHORT season of use. We had 2 track visits and only a few street cruises. I set them up .050" from coil-bind based on measured net lift...Used the Comp 308/.625/108 and Standard BS rockers. Seat pressure dropped from like 230 to 180. I couldn't beleive it. There recycled scrap by now.LOL

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: HardcoreB] #574138 01/10/10 04:22 PM 01/10/10 04:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440 OP
blownzoom440 OP B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	i have harland sharp that will work but i need to change the intake rocker to the correct offset and HS sells those.sorry you had problems with the springs,valves...

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: HardcoreB] #574139 01/10/10 04:39 PM 01/10/10 04:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,441 Mo. S supercomp master
supercomp master S Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,441 Mo.	Quote: Quote: A few years ago, I broke the intake valve head off the #4 cylinder. This may have been my fault as I neglected to change the valve springs. I just rebuilt a pair with new 'take-off's' early 90's era valves, rockers, springs, locks and retainers. I'll have to look at actual values but the springs were RUINED after a SHORT season of use. We had 2 track visits and only a few street cruises. I set them up .050" from coil-bind based on measured net lift...Used the Comp 308/.625/108 and Standard BS rockers. Seat pressure dropped from like 230 to 180. I couldn't beleive it. There recycled scrap by now.LOL I replaced them and the valves (made in England) on the advice of one of the famous hemi ss/ah engine builders with comp springs and farrea valves. Also replaced the rockers with t&d's after breaking two the first year.

Re: head swap to B1 BS HP gain? [Re: blownzoom440] #574140 01/10/10 05:35 PM 01/10/10 05:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,031 Shelby Twp. Mi HardcoreB master
HardcoreB master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,031 Shelby Twp. Mi	Quote: i have harland sharp that will work but i need to change the intake rocker to the correct offset and HS sells those.sorry you had problems with the springs,valves... I don't believe the valves used are 'bad' or not capable but, I would not reuse any valves that were subject to those conditions, severe floating resulting in the breaking of one. The set I replaced had severely worn stems and showed signs of floating on the seats. I replied because he said he'd believed the cause was worn valvesprings and I was just stating the well-documented facts of my experience.

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