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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 *DELETED* [Re: B G Racing] #569678
01/07/10 09:43 PM
01/07/10 09:43 PM
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moparniac Offline
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Post deleted by Eric


Mopar Performance
Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: moparniac] #569679
01/07/10 09:49 PM
01/07/10 09:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 438
Great Lakes Region
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abodiesonly1 Offline
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Well this just turned laughable.

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: B G Racing] #569680
01/07/10 09:51 PM
01/07/10 09:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366
Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Actually this thread should have been locked with only BG's input.





i agree. this thread should be locked to all but bob to post his findings. a second thread can be started for those who want to ask questions and debate things.

that would make this much, much easier, as many of us are only interested in the facts that bob finds.

bob can then chime in on the other thread if he wants to, or people can email him questions, and he can answer them in this thread.

but i would really, REALLY like to be able to just read what bob posts about the build, without having to wade through 15 posts for every 1 post from him about the build itself.

anyone else agree, or should i just drop it?




As you can see in my original post,I said I would respond to PMs.It would have been great to just follow it in sequence.The problem some opinions and conclusions were drawn before I could get facts gathered from those like Mr Krem about the issues.Like I said I may not have all the answers but certainly know where to get them.I had no problem with people posting and sharing opinions right or wrong,as a matter of fact it got kind light entertainment at times sinking a battle ship or two. .Then Branden and Jeff decided to ride down into Little Bighorn,(go figure)Now they wonder where all those fkn indians came from. Any damage from this point will be selfinflicted.




No need to lock anything ....If it wasn't for opinions....there would be no need for any forums period....I say just keep it on track and weed out the off-topic posts...last I knew this was Tom's site....

By the way....I think this is one of the most interesting topics in some time, let the members take from it what they may or may not...again just my

Rickster

Post deleted by Defbob [Re: rickstershemi] #569681
01/07/10 10:06 PM
01/07/10 10:06 PM

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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 #569682
01/07/10 10:11 PM
01/07/10 10:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Quote:

Carry on...





mike

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: biginchmotor] #569683
01/07/10 10:14 PM
01/07/10 10:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline OP
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Eighty Four, PA
Quote:

To Bob, if a customer brought you this crankshaft or any brand crankshaft and had you correct all the issues you have found what would be the dollar amount you would charge for the repairs. How many hours/ labor rate? Just Curious. $500? $800?. Thanks John. [/quot

Bringing the crank(only) to BGR.We would first,inspect the crank for flaws, mike the crank,record the measurments,set it machinist V-blocks or lathe and check for runout and straight dimensions,then report to the customer our findings.This process would be done with the customer present and if the customer was a racer it would be done at N/C as a courtesy.Anyone who has been to my shop will varaify this to be fact.Many racers right here on Moparts will tell you of our generosity.If we were building the short block,there would still be no extra charge as this would be included in the build estimate.I know that's not what you wanted to here so here's what it would typically cost at our associates shop.For That particular crank(Source) that I have would have cost $50 to mike and check the crank,$75 to deburr,dress,micro polish and clean,and another $150 to spin to correct(if necessarry)the balance if the bobweight was provided.So add a minimum of $275 to the price of your kit for the crank work. or buy it put it in and take your chances,buyers risk or choise.

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: B G Racing] #569684
01/07/10 10:21 PM
01/07/10 10:21 PM
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anything from overseas probably have flaws not just engine stuff.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1973-Dodge-Challenge...=item2304bd1ef0


Mopar Performance
Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: moparniac] #569685
01/07/10 10:44 PM
01/07/10 10:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 415
Peru
cbarracuda Offline
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Peru
Quote:

anything from overseas probably have flaws not just engine stuff.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1973-Dodge-Challenge...=item2304bd1ef0




Oh yeah? Wake up, what about Formula 1 900 HP only 3 liters N.A.

Post deleted by Defbob [Re: cbarracuda] #569686
01/07/10 10:49 PM
01/07/10 10:49 PM

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01/07/10 11:00 PM
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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 #569688
01/07/10 11:57 PM
01/07/10 11:57 PM
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Southington Ct.
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As stated in my earlier post, I would like to know the final cost of fixing and adjusting to make it all work. This is the only way to make a clear judgment on weather or not its a true budget build.
FYI - If anybody searches my username here or on Dodgecharger.com , you will see that I was the first one to step up to the plate and challenge the waterpump housing/overheating theory. I own this housing and pump and currently have it on my 572 Hemi. I also have other "Source" parts to. So please don't get the impression that I'm a Source basher but I have enough experience with these parts to ask the appropriate questions. I would be the first to admit to reseaching and buying budget parts from 440 Source or others. This is not a debate on strength or even quality but the bottom line dollar amount to correct the parts to the engine builders satisfaction.
Allan G.


1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy. 1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno. 1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: turbobitt] #569689
01/07/10 11:59 PM
01/07/10 11:59 PM
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moparniac Offline
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Quote:

As stated in my earlier post, I would like to know the final cost of fixing and adjusting to make it all work. This is the only way to make a clear judgment on weather or not its a true budget build.





X2

with all the thousands of happy source customers you think one would post additional machining cost to help a mopar brother have a good "idea" to make their decision on whether to purchase the kit or not


Mopar Performance
Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: B G Racing] #569690
01/08/10 12:59 AM
01/08/10 12:59 AM
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detroit area
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bob the 275 price listed and the description of labor operations would need to be done to any and every crank that has gone into every motor ive built in my life,, which ill guess is 100,, im a head porter for the most part

i dont see any special needed operations because its a 440 source crank

what was the main runout? stock allowance is .0020 which is crazy,,, ive run .0010 without issue

the reason im posting here is i see a guy, brandon, trying to create a sucessfull business selling and providing low cost parts for the mopar racing community, and there are misleading statements about his parts that they are different or bad compared to others,,, which they are not...

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: moderncylinder] #569691
01/08/10 01:08 AM
01/08/10 01:08 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,384
Worst Weather USA
493_DART Offline
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Im not a major race builder or machinist , but heres my experience :


My Source bottom end was bought in 04/05.

My crank flange looks great

The shop that checked the crank said it was well within acceptable specs

I did not have to shave any bearings

They had to lightly hone/ fit for the pins (this is posted in advance-right on the site and instructions) .

Ive never had a problem after 3 or 4 years running it to 6200-6400 rpm.

Its apart now and i dont see any major issues.


Oh.... and one of my journals is drilled at an angle.


Im with moderncylinder on this one ...


Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: Quicktree] #569692
01/08/10 01:54 AM
01/08/10 01:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,177
California
mickm Offline
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Quote:


what good would it do? a thousand more threads would just pop up let it run it's corse




yes, exactly, that's the point.

if you want to follow the build, stay here. if you want to follow people's discussion, go to one of the other threads!

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: mickm] #569693
01/08/10 02:34 AM
01/08/10 02:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:


what good would it do? a thousand more threads would just pop up let it run it's corse




yes, exactly, that's the point.

if you want to follow the build, stay here. if you want to follow people's discussion, go to one of the other threads!





The next stage of the build is now being documented in the part 2 stage thread now.

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 #569694
01/08/10 07:02 AM
01/08/10 07:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline OP
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Quote:

BG The crank pin lightening holes being drilled at an angle? Are you sayin this will cause the crank to fail. Jeff says he has seen cranks with the holes drilled at the same angles handle 900hp and 9000rpm are you looking for more than that out of this motor?

Jeff a ss/ah engine builder says as long as there is .150 thickness left that it's alright. Where does the crank that you have fall into this catagory?

Is there any evidence to show that if the hole was drilled straight as opposed to an angle that it would handle an x amount more horsepower and if so how much power and rpm would that be.

I have a saying about engineers. If it wasn't for engineers we would all still! be able to work on our own cars!




Those were our first observations,since all the others were drilled straight and complete,we questioned why it was unfinished.Curt's observations raised concerns as to the angle and where the hole would exit and the unfinished loose material.My concern was did it compromise the strength.We stop at that point,I consulted with Mr Krem and he advised me that as long as enough material was left at the area that we should have no problem,and yes there are many angle drilled cranks.Most are only partially drilled and the ones that are drilled are finished no matter where they exit, So that we will clean the unfinished hole,determine the amont left and base our decision from that point.As I stated before an Mr. Krem agreed that a heavy area can exist in the middle of the crank and not be seen at the front and back axis.The flange is a different thickness ranging from(guestimate).350 widining as you follow the radius growing to over .500 and was ground quite a bit at the .500 area.To answer Jeffs question,the outround on #1 journal was .0015+ I like no more than .001 also.We will finish the hole,make the flange more concentric and rebalance.There is no way to determine what Hp level it will with stand.Mr Krem says "run it and you will find out"

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: B G Racing] #569695
01/08/10 07:33 AM
01/08/10 07:33 AM
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moparniac Offline
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Here is my conlcusion on this whole deal! 493dart and others have had good success and "thousands" other and many have complained maybe "thousands" as well! cost at this point I dont care anymore. What I see for anyone here its always been a gamble either way! I am not gonna let my dad buy from a source kit! however good look to all who run them as I would never want a fail for a mopar brother....


Mopar Performance
Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 #569696
01/08/10 08:14 AM
01/08/10 08:14 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,449
Commerce, Michigan
EasyG Offline
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Commerce, Michigan
Quote:

The K1 kits have peeked my interest...and if I run into the cash I was thinking in that direction. Monte...have these been close to a OOTB install in your opinion?...or have they needed similar work as what BG has found?....




If you do this, you will have to change your long standing signiture....

still planning on a 500" Best Machine bullet

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: EasyG] #569697
01/08/10 08:23 AM
01/08/10 08:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,894
N of Detroit
DaveDudek Offline
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N of Detroit
I have ran a 440source crank in my car for 3 years with no problems, 7500rpm shifts and nearly 8000 through the traps. 13 1/2 to 1 compression and it seems to be holding up just fine..


Dave Dudek
1st Factory Stock legal car in the 10`s!!! [/b]
FAST & Factory Stock Rules: www.fastraces.org


FAST 69 Hemi RR 9.98@139
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