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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: moparniac] #569658
01/07/10 07:42 PM
01/07/10 07:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 741
Carson City, NV
440sourcedotcom Offline
super stock
440sourcedotcom  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 741
Carson City, NV
Quote:

please explain this from your site? im confused...

We do not just use what's "written on the box" or any "estimated" weights for any part of the balancing operation. Other shops call this a "competition balance" and charge a few hundred bucks extra for it. We call it standard practice.

On the waterpump housing deal isnt there bolt hole mis-alignment?

and jeff at MCH does all of your cnc head porting right

please enlighten so I know the facts about this stuff




I think what you quoted from our site explains it pretty good, but since you are "confused" I'll explain it in more detail. Most other shops that charge $150 for a balance job never even open the rods and pistons. They simply look at the weight written on the side of the box, and factor in that "estimated" weight when they drill the crank. The main downside to doing this is that you don't really know what you're working with. If the weight printed on the side of a box of pistons says 800 grams (for example) and 7 of the pistons actually do weigh 800 grams, but one weighs 825, you'd never know it.

We physically remove each and every rod and piston, ring and bearing, inspect them and weigh them individually (for the rods we weigh the small end and the big end separately) to make sure they are in spec. Only once they have been verified is the crank actually drilled.

And yes, Jeff does our CNC work. He also does Mancini, and probably 95% of the people on this board.

I don't appreciate any accusations that Jeff and I are somehow "in cahoots" or something. I'm sure he doesn't either. I won't dignify that sort of thing by arguing about it. It only took one post of mine for this thread to degenerate. In case anyone wonders why we rarely post on here anymore, this is exactly why.

And as far as any problems with our water pumps and/or housings, everything we sell is covered under full warranty, which is clearly explained on our site. If you had a problem with any of our parts during the warranty period, you could have called us and gotten a replacement.

We are done posting on this thread before it really gets

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: moper] #569659
01/07/10 07:42 PM
01/07/10 07:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Q
Quicktree Offline
I Win
Quicktree  Offline
I Win
Q

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quote:

I'd say lets try to keep on topic...




and continue with the build regardless

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: moderncylinder] #569660
01/07/10 07:43 PM
01/07/10 07:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 415
Peru
cbarracuda Offline
mopar
cbarracuda  Offline
mopar

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 415
Peru
I am also an engine builder and I have been living out of this for the last 35 years

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: Quicktree] #569661
01/07/10 07:50 PM
01/07/10 07:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline OP
master
B G Racing  Offline OP
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
Quote:

Quote:

I'd say lets try to keep on topic...




and continue with the build regardless


We will continue the build,see Curt's 440 Source part 2.We will feed our faith and starve our doubts,for only the strong will survive.Weaken and you'll fall by the wayside.

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: B G Racing] #569662
01/07/10 08:31 PM
01/07/10 08:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
M
moparniac Offline
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moparniac  Offline
master
M

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
lock the thread quik! were on part 2


Mopar Performance
Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: B G Racing] #569663
01/07/10 08:33 PM
01/07/10 08:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245
Between a rock & a hard place
C
cudadoug Offline
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cudadoug  Offline
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C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245
Between a rock & a hard place
I gotta say, I KNEW the thread would come to this. BG trying to do the right thing, the anti-source guys bashing Brandon's stuff...KI, SACT, CALLIES are the best, blah blah blah. It's been said here hundreds of times: Don't run ANY aftermarket part without it being checked. If you can't/don't have the knowledge to do it yourself, find a shop you TRUST to check it out. If you are nieve enough to think that ANY stroker kit can just be dropped in, you're in the wrong hobby.

Brandon, don't be so defensive you also KNEW where this was going. If you have that many satisfied customers, this thread shouldn't matter. Besides, I know plenty who are disatisfied with (pick one, or more) Eagle, SCAT, K1, Moroso, Edelbrock, Weiand, MSD, Crane, etc...at one time or another.

Let's see what BG comes up with in the end. And let's see what the additional costs are, shall we? Actually this thread should have been locked with only BG's input.

At the end of the day, if you don't want to buy a Source kit...then DON'T. This is America buy what you want, but please have some respect for Brandon for bringing this OPTION (look it up in the dictionary) to our hobby. And most of all, show the respect to BG for this "evaluation".

We now return you the chaos already in progress!

Last edited by cudadoug; 01/07/10 08:39 PM.
Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: 440sourcedotcom] #569664
01/07/10 08:38 PM
01/07/10 08:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981
SE Michigan
TS3303 Offline
top fuel
TS3303  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981
SE Michigan
no comment I have no real experience.

Quote:

Engine builders who have real experience, (and I'm talking about builders who have built thousands of engines over decades)




thousands would be 2000+
that would be an engine a day for 5 1/2 years
or one per week for 38 1/2 years.


Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: cudadoug] #569665
01/07/10 08:42 PM
01/07/10 08:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,633
Jacksonville, NC
RonP Offline
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RonP  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,633
Jacksonville, NC
I agree as I knew this is where it would head. I hope you continue BG and I am going to come check it out next weekend.

Everyone has opinions. I have heard so much bad on here about eagle cranks and statements that if your crank didn't need work then you need another machinist. well, my machinist at the time said it didn't so it must be bad, but its going on its 4th year runing mid-high 9's and the bearings were good enough to reuse when we tore it down at Bg's last year.

actually I just wanted to say i posted on here before it got locked.

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: TS3303] #569666
01/07/10 09:03 PM
01/07/10 09:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 802
Connecticut
biginchmotor Offline
super stock
biginchmotor  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 802
Connecticut
To Bob, if a customer brought you this crankshaft or any brand crankshaft and had you correct all the issues you have found what would be the dollar amount you would charge for the repairs. How many hours/ labor rate? Just Curious. $500? $800?. Thanks John.

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: RonP] #569667
01/07/10 09:05 PM
01/07/10 09:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline OP
master
B G Racing  Offline OP
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
Quote:

I agree as I knew this is where it would head. I hope you continue BG and I am going to come check it out next weekend.

Everyone has opinions. I have heard so much bad on here about eagle cranks and statements that if your crank didn't need work then you need another machinist. well, my machinist at the time said it didn't so it must be bad, but its going on its 4th year runing mid-high 9's and the bearings were good enough to reuse when we tore it down at Bg's last year.

actually I just wanted to say i posted on here before it got locked. [/quot




Ron,I'am glad you got your post in also,I'am sure you have your opinion,wanna share? It's ashame that a few have to take things and add their spin to it for personal agendas.You as well as many others know I don't do this for the money or any personnal agenda,but for the lifetime of love for the sport and to help others.Moparts has given me an interest and motivation to continue and a place to come to with so many racers that are willing to share their knowledge,experience and respect for each other.We may not all agree or think the same but at least we should respect each other.To be condacending and disrespectfull only shows ones character or lack of.Call me an azzhole in jest and I'll laugh with you,call me an azzhole and mean it and I'll meet the challenge.SemperFi If we all think alike,then no one is thinking.Score one for the indians.

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: RonP] #569668
01/07/10 09:07 PM
01/07/10 09:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,442
LOWELL IN
Q
QWK_ENUF Offline
top fuel
QWK_ENUF  Offline
top fuel
Q

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,442
LOWELL IN
the people that don't like the source still don't and the ones that do still do.thats what i learned


i am going on my 3rd season with my source 511 and no problems so far

5719226-qq.jpg (35 downloads)

WAXER
Post deleted by Defbob [Re: B G Racing] #569669
01/07/10 09:09 PM
01/07/10 09:09 PM

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Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: cudadoug] #569670
01/07/10 09:17 PM
01/07/10 09:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,177
California
mickm Offline
master
mickm  Offline
master

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,177
California
Quote:

Actually this thread should have been locked with only BG's input.





i agree. this thread should be locked to all but bob to post his findings. a second thread can be started for those who want to ask questions and debate things.

that would make this much, much easier, as many of us are only interested in the facts that bob finds.

bob can then chime in on the other thread if he wants to, or people can email him questions, and he can answer them in this thread.

but i would really, REALLY like to be able to just read what bob posts about the build, without having to wade through 15 posts for every 1 post from him about the build itself.

anyone else agree, or should i just drop it?

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 #569671
01/07/10 09:20 PM
01/07/10 09:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline OP
master
B G Racing  Offline OP
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
Quote:

hey Bob....azzhole?... ... [/quote



Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: QWK_ENUF] #569672
01/07/10 09:20 PM
01/07/10 09:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
M
moparniac Offline
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moparniac  Offline
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U.S.
Quote:


i am going on my 3rd season with my source 511 and no problems so far




did yours need any extra machining? and if so what was the cost is what people really wanna know....

Semper FI Krunch 85lbs



Mopar Performance
Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: mickm] #569673
01/07/10 09:21 PM
01/07/10 09:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Q
Quicktree Offline
I Win
Quicktree  Offline
I Win
Q

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quote:

Quote:

Actually this thread should have been locked with only BG's input.





i agree. this thread should be locked to all but bob to post his findings. a second thread can be started for those who want to ask questions and debate things.

that would make this much, much easier, as many of us are only interested in the facts that bob finds.

bob can then chime in on the other thread if he wants to, or people can email him questions, and he can answer them in this thread.

but i would really, REALLY like to be able to just read what bob posts about the build, without having to wade through 15 posts for every 1 post from him about the build itself.

anyone else agree, or should i just drop it?




what good would it do? a thousand more threads would just pop up let it run it's corse

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: B G Racing] #569674
01/07/10 09:23 PM
01/07/10 09:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline OP
master
B G Racing  Offline OP
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
Quote:

Sorry for some of the fuzzy pictures.We will start with the crank and the next series will be the rods and pistons.The crank miked quite well with clearences on the highside with a noticable taper on most journals but within spec.The radius's were quite large and interfered on all mains,most on front and rear both.The crank runout was remarkable good till we got to the number one main and snout which exceeded our acceptable runout.We checked it both in the block and on the lathe.The condition of the unfinished rod journal and the rear flange were small concerns and can be corrected as well as the radius's.The crank was balanced to 2300 grams as seen on the stamping.Our rotating assembly bobweight totaled 2169 grams.Until we spin the crank we will not know if the correction was made or not.We will be correcting the crank and will give any further finds and soon give our assesment of the rest of the assembly.Remember this is for imformation and I'am sure that this may not be typical of all kits.Some of these issues were not seen on previous kits and this was an early kit.Please do not use this post for a bashing party,just use it to gain knowledge as to what to be watchful for.We can learn together for improving our sport.I,am communicating with Brandon and may use more of his products in the future if requested buy budget minded racers.If we can keep this post on a informational and learning experience I will continue,if it turns to bashing I will stop.It is not my intent to disrespect anyone or any products,just to be helpful.With the information provided in this and other builds we all can understand the different levels and cost to make the best decisions for our projects.We have recorded all the measurements and will share any and all info,any questions can be answered in PMs,we will be try and specific and general on the site.Respectfully Bob



Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: B G Racing] #569675
01/07/10 09:32 PM
01/07/10 09:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 438
Great Lakes Region
A
abodiesonly1 Offline
mopar
abodiesonly1  Offline
mopar
A

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 438
Great Lakes Region
I agree...Lets move on to #2.

It doesnt seem to be getting as many hits.

Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: moparniac] #569676
01/07/10 09:37 PM
01/07/10 09:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981
SE Michigan
TS3303 Offline
top fuel
TS3303  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981
SE Michigan
Quote:

lock the thread quik! were on part 2




no need to lock it, just moderate it professionally. Questions should be able to be asked to BG, Curt jr, or Brandon specific to the kit being assessed. Remove any posts bringing in other kits or personal opinions.

Edit: Usually these threads get locked or deleted and don't make it to the archive and alot of good info is lost forever.

Last edited by TS3303; 01/07/10 09:39 PM.
Re: 440 Source kit update part 1 [Re: mickm] #569677
01/07/10 09:38 PM
01/07/10 09:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline OP
master
B G Racing  Offline OP
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
Quote:

Quote:

Actually this thread should have been locked with only BG's input.





i agree. this thread should be locked to all but bob to post his findings. a second thread can be started for those who want to ask questions and debate things.

that would make this much, much easier, as many of us are only interested in the facts that bob finds.

bob can then chime in on the other thread if he wants to, or people can email him questions, and he can answer them in this thread.

but i would really, REALLY like to be able to just read what bob posts about the build, without having to wade through 15 posts for every 1 post from him about the build itself.

anyone else agree, or should i just drop it?




As you can see in my original post,I said I would respond to PMs.It would have been great to just follow it in sequence.The problem some opinions and conclusions were drawn before I could get facts gathered from those like Mr Krem about the issues.Like I said I may not have all the answers but certainly know where to get them.I had no problem with people posting and sharing opinions right or wrong,as a matter of fact it got kind light entertainment at times sinking a battle ship or two. .



Lets keep it civil

Last edited by Eric; 01/07/10 10:37 PM.
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