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Solutions for "Morning Sickness" #566604
12/30/09 02:55 AM 12/30/09 02:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,226
Cookeville
Chilort Offline OP
Will Work For Mopars
Chilort  Offline OP
Will Work For Mopars

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,226
Cookeville
I've got my 727 out and apart. We're going to start putting it back together tomorrow and I'm looking for solutions to the "morning sickness" problem these transmissions have (i.e. they won't go in gear unless allowed to idle in RNDL for 30 sec, P won't work). This one has had it pretty bad too. All I have to do is let it sit overnight and it won't go in gear right away.

I did a search and so far I've seen:
1) Bad converter (getting a new one from TurboAction anyway)
2) "Converter drain back valve" on the "top of the valve body" has some crud in it" (I cleaned the VB myself a few years ago and didn't see anything)
3) Pump bearing clearance is too loose

Anything else we should check for that might cause this?

The pump itself looks to be in great condition but we will double check the tolerances before we put it back together of course.

Thanks!
Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: Chilort] #566605
12/30/09 03:09 AM 12/30/09 03:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT Offline
Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT  Offline
Management Trainee

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
You've covered the normal causes.. That said I would add a TF-2 shift kit as it has a replacement shift valve that changes the convertor fill path so the convertor is filled in park.. Plus the improved shift quality..

Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #566606
12/30/09 11:10 AM 12/30/09 11:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,226
Cookeville
Chilort Offline OP
Will Work For Mopars
Chilort  Offline OP
Will Work For Mopars

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,226
Cookeville
I'll see what we can find out about the fill-in-park deal. We're going to be using a custom VB. If things are out of tolerance or are incorrect on this trans I want to fix it.
Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: Chilort] #566607
12/30/09 11:47 AM 12/30/09 11:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,310
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,310
north of coder
transgo has a kit that fixes the drainback problem by allowing the converter to fill in park. SK-TF-SC-A works great ! if you can't locate it, let me know. my local trans shop can get 'em. if i remember, they are about $25 or so.

Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: moparx] #566608
12/30/09 11:48 AM 12/30/09 11:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,911
Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
I Win
stumpy  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,911
Grand Prairie,Texas
Depending on the custom valve body you may not have to worry about drainback. What VB are you going to use?
Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: stumpy] #566609
12/30/09 12:01 PM 12/30/09 12:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,226
Cookeville
Chilort Offline OP
Will Work For Mopars
Chilort  Offline OP
Will Work For Mopars

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,226
Cookeville
Wish I could tell you. A friend of mine is working on custom valve bodies based on his years of working on 727s and the aid of some other 727 expert friends. He's used a few of them so far but hasn't gotten much feedback. I'll keep my stock '68 VB (just in case) and use one of his and give him some feedback.

Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: Chilort] #566610
12/30/09 12:02 PM 12/30/09 12:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms  Offline
Mr Wizzard

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
Don't get pregnant!

Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #566611
12/31/09 02:16 AM 12/31/09 02:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,226
Cookeville
Chilort Offline OP
Will Work For Mopars
Chilort  Offline OP
Will Work For Mopars

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,226
Cookeville
No joke, right.
Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: Chilort] #566612
12/31/09 09:22 AM 12/31/09 09:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
master
Dodgem  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Well change all the seals and sealing rings for sure.
Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: Chilort] #566613
12/31/09 11:40 AM 12/31/09 11:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
PC-CHARGER Offline
super stock
PC-CHARGER  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
Sonnax make a replacement manual valve that charges the converter in park as well as a Pressure regulator valve that helps prevent converter drainback. Here's a link to both fixes and Sonnax's explantion.

http://www.sonnax.com/part_summary.php?id=5013&pl=3

http://www.sonnax.com/part_summary.php?id=3474&pl=3
Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: PC-CHARGER] #566614
12/31/09 02:34 PM 12/31/09 02:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 711
Montana
P
Posest Offline
super stock
Posest  Offline
super stock
P

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 711
Montana
My brand new tranny from CRT does this also. I just live with it. It has done it from the start. Oh well.
Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: Posest] #566615
12/31/09 03:34 PM 12/31/09 03:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
M
MoparforLife Offline
Too Many Posts
MoparforLife  Offline
Too Many Posts
M

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
So what is the big deal??? It isn't like it is doing any damage. Are you in that much of a hurry that you can't run it a few seconds in neutral before starting out?? Heck if you start the engine in in neutral the converter will be full before the oil pressure builds to peak in the engine.
Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: MoparforLife] #566616
12/31/09 04:04 PM 12/31/09 04:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 711
Montana
P
Posest Offline
super stock
Posest  Offline
super stock
P

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 711
Montana
That is pretty much what I do. I have no troubles with this start up procedure.

Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: PC-CHARGER] #566617
12/31/09 07:04 PM 12/31/09 07:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,226
Cookeville
Chilort Offline OP
Will Work For Mopars
Chilort  Offline OP
Will Work For Mopars

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,226
Cookeville
Quote:

Sonnax make a replacement manual valve that charges the converter in park as well as a Pressure regulator valve that helps prevent converter drainback. Here's a link to both fixes and Sonnax's explantion.

http://www.sonnax.com/part_summary.php?id=5013&pl=3

http://www.sonnax.com/part_summary.php?id=3474&pl=3



Thanks for the links!

We've replaced all the seals and what not. If it drains back still (which it shouldn't, regardless of how much of a pain it is or not) I'll look into some of these other solutions.
Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: Chilort] #566618
01/01/10 09:03 AM 01/01/10 09:03 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 601
Mass
C
charge70 Offline
mopar
charge70  Offline
mopar
C

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 601
Mass
You may want to do all these upgrades now.I rebuilt the 727 for my brothers 70 Charger.Replaced every seal/steel and rubber/ possible and replaced all the bushings and it still has a drain back problem.Do it now before you put it back in the car.Just my John.

1970 Dodge Charger R/T S.E. 1969 Dodge Dart GTS 440 M-Code 1970 Dodge Charger 500 383/4-speed w/A.C.
Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: charge70] #566619
01/01/10 12:27 PM 01/01/10 12:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,226
Cookeville
Chilort Offline OP
Will Work For Mopars
Chilort  Offline OP
Will Work For Mopars

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,226
Cookeville
I agree, but will have to wait until I get it home (from Ft. Wayne, In to Atlanta, GA) and can get the valve body back out. I took some pictures of the work we did but did not get a good picture of the pressure valve.

According to the Sonnax instructions, the pressure relief valve has to look like the one pictured in the instructions for the manual valve (the one that fixes the no fill in park issue). I've got a picture of part of the pressure valve but it isn't exactly the same. My valve body is a '68 and they are a little different from some of the newer valve bodies (i.e. hardest shifting stock valve body, no high pressure relief)

I may need to look into the TF-2 or Transgo kit mentioned earlier.
Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: MoparforLife] #566620
01/01/10 12:37 PM 01/01/10 12:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc ! Offline
The village idiot's idiot
dOc !  Offline
The village idiot's idiot

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
Quote:

So what is the big deal??? It isn't like it is doing any damage. Are you in that much of a hurry that you can't run it a few seconds in neutral before starting out?? Heck if you start the engine in in neutral the converter will be full before the oil pressure builds to peak in the engine.



.....x 100
Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: dOc !] #566621
01/01/10 12:49 PM 01/01/10 12:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,226
Cookeville
Chilort Offline OP
Will Work For Mopars
Chilort  Offline OP
Will Work For Mopars

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,226
Cookeville
Imagine how much fun it is to do this if you live on a hill.

Additionally, it reduces risk of damage from wearing out the pump bushing. It is tearing up the trans.
Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: Chilort] #566622
01/01/10 03:44 PM 01/01/10 03:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
M
MoparforLife Offline
Too Many Posts
MoparforLife  Offline
Too Many Posts
M

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
Quote:


Additionally, it reduces risk of damage from wearing out the pump bushing. It is tearing up the trans.


Not going to happen.

Quote:

Imagine how much fun it is to do this if you live on a hill.

If you are that worried about it and you live on a hill, have you ever heard of a parking brake or holding your foot on the brake for about 3 seconds.

Re: Solutions for "Morning Sickness" [Re: MoparforLife] #566623
01/01/10 06:21 PM 01/01/10 06:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 587
minot north dakota
ledft79 Offline
mopar
ledft79  Offline
mopar

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 587
minot north dakota
Quote:

Quote:


Additionally, it reduces risk of damage from wearing out the pump bushing. It is tearing up the trans.


Not going to happen.

Quote:

Imagine how much fun it is to do this if you live on a hill.

If you are that worried about it and you live on a hill, have you ever heard of a parking brake or holding your foot on the brake for about 3 seconds.

why is every one ragging on this guy for wanting his car to act right? Mine does it too, and it kinda pss's me off too.

DRIVE EM, DONT HIDE EM.
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