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The bars coming off the main hoop that are welded to the plate next to the tunnel. I have a concern depending on what type of suspension you go with. These bars should attach above your framerail. The idea is that in a roll over you can shove the main hoop through the plated floor pan. But, when you add the seventh and eighth points and attach to the fram connector, rear frame, leaf spring relocation mount, or ladder bar crossmember you rule this possibility out.

I'm not suggesting you have to remove and relocate the bars. But, maybe you could put a crossmember between frame connectors and loop it under the driveshaft to give these bars something substantial to support the main hoop.

What you have may be perfectly legal. I'm not looking at the rule book right now but the old rules said those extra bars had to connect to a frame member.

Leon

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And to fix that he could run another piece of 1 5/8 between the main and the down bars ...then he could tie that bar into the subframe connectors...its kinda a patch way of doing it...but hes WAY too deep into it now....

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Thanks guys , i feel lots better about it now.I didnt want to get to the track and only to find out it wasnt right .I think im actually good to 10.00 from what i have been told.I think if you have an unmodified floor and firewall an 8 point bar is okay till you get to 9.99...

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Well it might be legal, but would you want to rely on it a 140+ mph? Just my

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Thanks guys , i feel lots better about it now.I didnt want to get to the track and only to find out it wasnt right .I think im actually good to 10.00 from what i have been told.I think if you have an unmodified floor and firewall an 8 point bar is okay till you get to 9.99...

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Well it might be legal, but would you want to rely on it a 140+ mph? Just my

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Dont ever see me going 140+ on my wallet in this car ,but its nice to know that if i break 11.00 im still good for another second ...

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Looking at those welds on the right side support bar it looks like the welder did the on/off on/off of the trigger overlapping spot welds instead of a vertical up weld. Almost no HAZ indication next to the weld.
I hope he didn't use this method on the rear supports at the hoop.

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Its called stitch welding.... works fine

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Looking at those welds on the right side support bar it looks like the welder did the on/off on/off of the trigger overlapping spot welds instead of a vertical up weld. Almost no HAZ indication next to the weld.
I hope he didn't use this method on the rear supports at the hoop.

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Its called stitch welding.... works fine

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great welds
the only problem i see
what size is it looks like 1"5/8
that is not leagal bar
roll bar must be 1"3/4
gage can all be
1"5/8

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it looks good daniel,paint it and be done.iv'e been freshening the top end on my 65 coronet,putting a smaller tube header on it hoping to making a little more low end power.have a good holidays,sam.

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Thanks Sam and happy holidays to you as well ...

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I think that roll bar looks great for the time you had and it looks safe enough to me and I think it will pass tech for sure.

But I am going to say something just so others will have the info.

Rule book says the main hoop has to be attached to the "rocker sill". MOST tech's won't ding you on this. But, you want to keep the main hoop from pushing those 6X6 plates through the floorpan.

If you really wanted to make it safer you can add the 2 bars that would go to the top of your frame ties like was mentioned. I personally think it looks fine and will pass tech.

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You are right on the plates to the sill thing ,and its hard to see in the pics but the outside edge of the plate is bent up a bit onto the sill.It isnt however as much as you did it.I wish i had done it like you did ,but at the time i was affraid (because i didnt know) ,that the bar needed to be centered pretty well on the plate.Looking at that pic of your ,i see that it doesnt have to be centered on the plate.Thanks for the compliment on the install ...

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I think that roll bar looks great for the time you had and it looks safe enough to me and I think it will pass tech for sure.

But I am going to say something just so others will have the info.

Rule book says the main hoop has to be attached to the "rocker sill". MOST tech's won't ding you on this. But, you want to keep the main hoop from pushing those 6X6 plates through the floorpan.

If you really wanted to make it safer you can add the 2 bars that would go to the top of your frame ties like was mentioned. I personally think it looks fine and will pass tech.

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You are right on the plates to the sill thing ,and its hard to see in the pics but the outside edge of the plate is bent up a bit onto the sill.It isnt however as much as you did it.I wish i had done it like you did ,but at the time i was affraid (because i didnt know) ,that the bar needed to be centered pretty well on the plate.Looking at that pic of your ,i see that it doesnt have to be centered on the plate.Thanks for the compliment on the install ...

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I think that roll bar looks great for the time you had and it looks safe enough to me and I think it will pass tech for sure.

But I am going to say something just so others will have the info.

Rule book says the main hoop has to be attached to the "rocker sill". MOST tech's won't ding you on this. But, you want to keep the main hoop from pushing those 6X6 plates through the floorpan.

If you really wanted to make it safer you can add the 2 bars that would go to the top of your frame ties like was mentioned. I personally think it looks fine and will pass tech.

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Yeah, when we did mine we kept the plates up right by the front corners of the back seat. (What a rodeo getting that back seat back in...) Putting them down on the floor pan moved them too far forward for my liking too. This way we were able to hide my bars a bit behind the post. It was more time and labour to have the hoop up, but that is how the kit came, and I am glad we did it that way. I looked at getting the S&W kit, but the Art Morrison was about the same price, and the shipping was less to the Canadian border. They did an AWESOME job on the cage fitment. They hadn't done a cage before, for an Aspen or a Volare, so they went and found a car, and measured it up.

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Looking at those welds on the right side support bar it looks like the welder did the on/off on/off of the trigger overlapping spot welds instead of a vertical up weld. Almost no HAZ indication next to the weld.
I hope he didn't use this method on the rear supports at the hoop.

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Its called stitch welding.... works fine

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Yes, it is called "stitch welding" and in this application it does not "work fine". It should have a proper 'stringer' weld. Stitch weld your new quarter panels, not a roll bar.

Here's some more on the subject....

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/communities/mboard/archive/index.php/t-5923.html

Maybe some certified welders will jump in here also.

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I took a look at the pic you guys are referring to..

IMO that is a very bad weld and not safe. But it's not the reason you guys are talking about.

I'll explain, If you look at the weld closely the arcs point up not down (I hope this makes sense to you guys). If the arcs point up that means the welder made the number one mistake, unless of course the car was upside down when he welded it.

What I am saying is he did a vertical down weld which is never acceptable on any critical or structural weld. Vert down weld are only good for sheetmetal, tacs, or other non critical areas. But still you should never pactice or get used to this method.

Just my

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If we are talking about the same weld, the short little down kickers being welded the "wrong" direction with "stitch" welding, with that large of welded joint, he could have soldered it together for all the loading (compression?) it will likely ever see, even in a crash, the tubing will fail much earlier, unless he was using 3/8" wall tubing, we are really chasing our tails here.

With all this 2 cents stuff, it might finally add up to something

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You are correct.

I was just looking at it from a certified weld inspector stand point. It would be rejected immediately by just visual alone, let alone NDT....





Were in the money now

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Well here is my opinion, I welded for 40+ years I think that the down hand weld is not as strong as vert up but a lot of shops that do roolbar work use it. thay are putting a 20" gas line in down the street from me, welded down hand, E7010 just like we welded it back in the 60 . And to me mig welding is junk weld I have seen some of them atculy peel off By the way the cage in my car is miged vert up

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Well here is my opinion, I welded for 40+ years I think that the down hand weld is not as strong as vert up but a lot of shops that do roolbar work use it. thay are putting a 20" gas line in down the street from me, welded down hand, E7010 just like we welded it back in the 60 . And to me mig welding is junk weld I have seen some of them atculy peel off By the way the cage in my car is miged vert up

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Yes in certain applications vert down is ok. In a 6G application like you are talking about, there is a rod designed specifically for vert down. It's a pipeliner rod E7010-P1 this is made specifically for vert down on pipe.

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Well here is my opinion, I welded for 40+ years I think that the down hand weld is not as strong as vert up but a lot of shops that do roolbar work use it. thay are putting a 20" gas line in down the street from me, welded down hand, E7010 just like we welded it back in the 60 . And to me mig welding is junk weld I have seen some of them atculy peel off By the way the cage in my car is miged vert up

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Yes in certain applications vert down is ok. In a 6G application like you are talking about, there is a rod designed specifically for vert down. It's a pipeliner rod E7010-P1 this is made specifically for vert down on pipe.

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Its a rollbar for gods sake not 1/2" thick plates!
Those welds is probably the strongest thing in the whole car.

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The OP asked if anyone seen any problems. People started critiquing the welds. Being a nuke certified welder, I thought I'd reply on what I seen with the weld in question....

That is all...

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Well here is my opinion, I welded for 40+ years I think that the down hand weld is not as strong as vert up but a lot of shops that do roolbar work use it. thay are putting a 20" gas line in down the street from me, welded down hand, E7010 just like we welded it back in the 60 . And to me mig welding is junk weld I have seen some of them atculy peel off By the way the cage in my car is miged vert up

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Yes in certain applications vert down is ok. In a 6G application like you are talking about, there is a rod designed specifically for vert down. It's a pipeliner rod E7010-P1 this is made specifically for vert down on pipe.

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Its a rollbar for gods sake not 1/2" thick plates!
Those welds is probably the strongest thing in the whole car.

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The OP asked if anyone seen any problems. People started critiquing the welds. Being a nuke certified welder, I thought I'd reply on what I seen with the weld in question....

That is all...

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I didnt meen to be rude or upset anyone, just wanted to say that that is a very good job done

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Aside from all the weld critiques which was very educational, I have a question and am surprised nobody else picked up on it. Are you planning on using a 5 point harness? There could be a major problem. I don't know how tall you are, but if you are planning on routing the shoulder belts through the seat, you will fail. The cross bar cannot be higher than shoulder height and no more than 4 inches below shoulder level. If you are planning on routing the shoulder belts over and around and the racing seat headrest, than you could be ok if it is within the 0 to -4" or 90 degree driver to shoulder belts angle. If not, that bar will not pass. You should really check these measurements while seated to make sure you will be safe. Even if only going to run "low 11's"

On another note, it drives me a little crazy when folks say they are only going to go "this" fast. Guess what, someone that is faster than you will be chasing you one day and all hell may break loose and you are in the cross hairs of the faster car. God forbid you are ever in this situation. Do you want to plan for your car only going so fast, or plan on what could happen and know that you followed the guidelines to make sure you kept yourself safe? If what I said about your belt mounting measurements/angles are off, if your car were to fold on impact, your spine would be compressed/crushed from the shoulder belts down. Other than looking out for you, the bar looks like a job well done. Thanks for asking everyones opinion. If you want me to copy the rollbar and seatbelt sections of the rulebook for you, just drop me a PM
-Jason

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No certification required until you need a cage.Roll bars only need the bare minimum bars,the size and 100% weld.IHRA,NHRA don't certify roll bars. Don't let anyone scare you,it looks fine and is functionally correct.

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Aside from all the weld critiques which was very educational, I have a question and am surprised nobody else picked up on it. Are you planning on using a 5 point harness? There could be a major problem. I don't know how tall you are, but if you are planning on routing the shoulder belts through the seat, you will fail. The cross bar cannot be higher than shoulder height and no more than 4 inches below shoulder level. If you are planning on routing the shoulder belts over and around and the racing seat headrest, than you could be ok if it is within the 0 to -4" or 90 degree driver to shoulder belts angle. If not, that bar will not pass. You should really check these measurements while seated to make sure you will be safe. Even if only going to run "low 11's"

On another note, it drives me a little crazy when folks say they are only going to go "this" fast. Guess what, someone that is faster than you will be chasing you one day and all hell may break loose and you are in the cross hairs of the faster car. God forbid you are ever in this situation. Do you want to plan for your car only going so fast, or plan on what could happen and know that you followed the guidelines to make sure you kept yourself safe? If what I said about your belt mounting measurements/angles are off, if your car were to fold on impact, your spine would be compressed/crushed from the shoulder belts down. Other than looking out for you, the bar looks like a job well done. Thanks for asking everyones opinion. If you want me to copy the rollbar and seatbelt sections of the rulebook for you, just drop me a PM
-Jason

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Maybe some certified welders will jump in here also.

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Aside from all the weld critiques which was very educational, I have a question and am surprised nobody else picked up on it. Are you planning on using a 5 point harness? There could be a major problem. I don't know how tall you are, but if you are planning on routing the shoulder belts through the seat, you will fail. The cross bar cannot be higher than shoulder height and no more than 4 inches below shoulder level. If you are planning on routing the shoulder belts over and around and the racing seat headrest, than you could be ok if it is within the 0 to -4" or 90 degree driver to shoulder belts angle. If not, that bar will not pass. You should really check these measurements while seated to make sure you will be safe. Even if only going to run "low 11's"

-Jason

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Good eye on the shoulder harness mounting angle , nobody else including me caught it.

If that is your chosen seat, then you have safety problem. I don't know nor care if an inspector catches it or not. If the seat can be raised or another bar added, problem solved. The belted driver is mainly restrained from upward movement by the lap/crotch belt, the shoulder harness is primarily to restrain forward motion of the main mass of the body. The pictured y? belt single shoulder harness ( also nhra declined) seat opening would distort the shoulder harness and or seat, and is way too far down. To low is another topic. Far all this trouble, you do not want your head or body to be hitting this finely welded roll bar in a heavy on track incident, and of course their is resale value to consider.

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Aside from all the weld critiques which was very educational, I have a question and am surprised nobody else picked up on it. Are you planning on using a 5 point harness? There could be a major problem. I don't know how tall you are, but if you are planning on routing the shoulder belts through the seat, you will fail. The cross bar cannot be higher than shoulder height and no more than 4 inches below shoulder level. If you are planning on routing the shoulder belts over and around and the racing seat headrest, than you could be ok if it is within the 0 to -4" or 90 degree driver to shoulder belts angle. If not, that bar will not pass. You should really check these measurements while seated to make sure you will be safe. Even if only going to run "low 11's"

-Jason

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Good eye on the shoulder harness mounting angle , nobody else including me caught it.

If that is your chosen seat, then you have safety problem. I don't know nor care if an inspector catches it or not. If the seat can be raised or another bar added, problem solved. The belted driver is mainly restrained from upward movement by the lap/crotch belt, the shoulder harness is primarily to restrain forward motion of the main mass of the body. The pictured y? belt single shoulder harness ( also nhra declined) seat opening would distort the shoulder harness and or seat, and is way too far down. To low is another topic. Far all this trouble, you do not want your head or body to be hitting this finely welded roll bar in a heavy on track incident, and of course their is resale value to consider.

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Thanks ,but what your eagle eye missed is that im 6'2 /220 lbs and with my helmet on in this car with the seat mounted where i put it(which is basically on the floor),im maybe 3 inches from the roof.I dont plan on using the should strap hole in the seat .I am just going to run the shoulder strap around the seat bar as required and then over the seat ,thus correcting the problem.I look like a giant sitting in the seat of this Dart.The very top edge of that seat is even with my shirt collar .I had my freind take the measurements for the seat bar ,door bars ,main hoop ,etc ,with me sitting normally in the seat with my helment on as the instructions said to.I didnt rely on a hole in the seat to position anything. Your right on the resale thing ,a short man wont fit the car with the seat where i mounted it.I dont think its required to run the seat belt shoulder straps through the seat back ,if it was how do people with factory bench seats or factory buckets and a 5 point seat belt get through tech ? BTW, i dont plan on using that lap belt as its not legal to use a lap belt with a rollbar in any class ,at any speed ...

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Not about the bar but you might look at your shifter location again. Pretend your strapped in and see if you can reach up and get it out of park. I had this problem with my last shifter setup. I had to strrreeettttcchhhh when strapped in to take the car out of park, seemed perfectly fine until I put a harness in it.

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Thanks ,and your right,It may very well be a problem with me strapped in the seat to reach the shifter in park.I will check that out.It shouldnt be too hard to move it back a little if it is...

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I often wondered why so many people put the switches next to the shifter or on the halo bar in a race car until I strapped myself in and couldnt reach the dash. There are alot of little things you learn as you go.

Not that my opinion holds any authority but I think your roll bar will be fine.

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samr thing happend to me,got the whole car wired ,all switches on the dash and the shifter mounted,i really took my time and did a good job.then got straped in and couldnt reach the switches or get it out of park(it was my first race car)BUMMER!!!!

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Aside from all the weld critiques which was very educational, I have a question and am surprised nobody else picked up on it. Are you planning on using a 5 point harness? There could be a major problem. I don't know how tall you are, but if you are planning on routing the shoulder belts through the seat, you will fail. The cross bar cannot be higher than shoulder height and no more than 4 inches below shoulder level. If you are planning on routing the shoulder belts over and around and the racing seat headrest, than you could be ok if it is within the 0 to -4" or 90 degree driver to shoulder belts angle. If not, that bar will not pass. You should really check these measurements while seated to make sure you will be safe. Even if only going to run "low 11's"

-Jason

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Good eye on the shoulder harness mounting angle , nobody else including me caught it.

If that is your chosen seat, then you have safety problem. I don't know nor care if an inspector catches it or not. If the seat can be raised or another bar added, problem solved. The belted driver is mainly restrained from upward movement by the lap/crotch belt, the shoulder harness is primarily to restrain forward motion of the main mass of the body. The pictured y? belt single shoulder harness ( also nhra declined) seat opening would distort the shoulder harness and or seat, and is way too far down. To low is another topic. Far all this trouble, you do not want your head or body to be hitting this finely welded roll bar in a heavy on track incident, and of course their is resale value to consider.

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Thanks ,but what your eagle eye missed is that im 6'2 /220 lbs and with my helmet on in this car with the seat mounted where i put it(which is basically on the floor),im maybe 3 inches from the roof.I dont plan on using the should strap hole in the seat .I am just going to run the shoulder strap around the seat bar as required and then over the seat ,thus correcting the problem.I look like a giant sitting in the seat of this Dart.The very top edge of that seat is even with my shirt collar .I had my freind take the measurements for the seat bar ,door bars ,main hoop ,etc ,with me sitting normally in the seat with my helment on as the instructions said to.I didnt rely on a hole in the seat to position anything. Your right on the resale thing ,a short man wont fit the car with the seat where i mounted it.I dont think its required to run the seat belt shoulder straps through the seat back ,if it was how do people with factory bench seats or factory buckets and a 5 point seat belt get through tech ? BTW, i dont plan on using that lap belt as its not legal to use a lap belt with a rollbar in any class ,at any speed ...

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The I guess I incorectly assumed you were the seat pictured as designed, taking the shoulder harness around the outside of a seat is certaintly doable, but may not be ideal, or useful for certain "hans" type neck braces, ie too wide. It seems you addressed the shoulder harness angle/height issues. The "lap" belt I referred to was the lap belt in a 5/6/7 way belt system. And remember, the belts can only hold you as tight as the seat itself is mounted. +

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What about the brackets holding the shifter up/ looks like one hard shift and thet would fold like a house of cards.

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Correct you are.When the previuos owner mounted that shifter ,it had a bench seat in the car.On the last run i made in October ,i bent the "legs" of that shifter when i shifted it into high gear ,and it turned sideways.I am kinda ruff when it comes to shifting on a dragstrip (as a former 4 spd powershifter).I will be addressing that when i move the shifter back a bit.You certainly have a fine eye my freind ...