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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success [Re: mr2performance] #553140
12/20/09 12:09 AM
12/20/09 12:09 AM
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Canton, Ohio
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Quote:

The pinion will move from it's preset angle and it's relationship to the driveshaft.




Can you please explain as you understand it. mike

Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success [Re: mr2performance] #553141
12/20/09 10:08 AM
12/20/09 10:08 AM
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Syracuse,NY
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Shame on you Mike for trying to relate actual REAL world experience against books, videos and theory. What in the world could you be thinking? ...and to top it off, you work on those slow, sluggish and barely able to wobble down the track SS/AH cars...how dare you interject!...sorry...couldnt help it...this one is just too much.


RIP Monte Smith

Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.

WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #553142
12/20/09 10:12 AM
12/20/09 10:12 AM
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Shame on you Mike for trying to relate actual REAL world experience against books, videos and theory. What in the world could you be thinking? ...and to top it off, you work on those slow, sluggish and barely able to wobble down the track SS/AH cars...how dare you interject!...sorry...couldnt help it...this one is just too much.




so you have no problem putting down caltrac,rossler,spicer, Dave Morgan, and many more?

Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success [Re: Quicktree] #553143
12/20/09 10:18 AM
12/20/09 10:18 AM
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still not one single explanation on a reason not to set pinion angle off the motor tranny center line except it may be time consuming

Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success [Re: Quicktree] #553144
12/20/09 10:32 AM
12/20/09 10:32 AM
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Syracuse,NY
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I have no experience with Rossler, so no comment there. I DO have experience with CalTrac, Spicer and have both of Morgans books,( the early notebook style and Doorslammers) been to his class. I disagree with some of what he says works. I have no problem saying that their suggestions many times dont work. Caltrac gives you a suggested starting point. Do you think that works the same for a 500HP Stocker iwth 9 inch tire and a 4 speed as it does for a 3000# bracket car with 700HP? Of course not. We have 10's of thousands of runs down the track, and theory doesnt always meet reality. They all may give you what they see as their application, they many times dont work. Race cars are constantly changing, flexing, moving, torquing, thrusting etc. What is set at a static rest doesn not mean that it works at speed or under motion. What I am saying is no matter how many books you read, how many classes you go to, how many videos you watch, real experienced builders, racers, chassis tuners etc, find other ways to make the cars work. What the manufacters often give you is a starting point. It may work, it may not. One of our racers recently fell upon a tune up that everyone said was a complete waste of time, no way could it work, your beating your head against the wall etc etc. Guess what. Fastest pass in class history.BUT, if he listened to the experts, it never would have been tried. So my point is, experience never lies, results never cheat. It is what it is. If Monte, Mike, BG, myself, the man on the moon say something works, then it works. If you oppose that, thats absolutley fine. Your perogative. You recently were tuning your car for your first passes on it correct? I bet you found out some things about tuning your carb and engine during that process? Did you nail your combo right out of the gate beacause of all this reading material? Did you need to ask for some help in tuning it perhaps? Is your car maximized already? I bet not. It takes time, laps and experience. I will listen to the experience first every time. Thats my point.

I said my peace, thats all I'll say, and continue to watch the fun....I got work to do...


RIP Monte Smith

Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.

WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #553145
12/20/09 10:55 AM
12/20/09 10:55 AM
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Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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could the mods please rename this thread " Quicktree loses another pinion angle thread " and archive it

Last edited by sixpackgut; 12/20/09 10:56 AM.

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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #553146
12/20/09 10:57 AM
12/20/09 10:57 AM
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Quote:

I have no experience with Rossler, so no comment there. I DO have experience with CalTrac, Spicer and have both of Morgans books,( the early notebook style and Doorslammers) been to his class. I disagree with some of what he says works. I have no problem saying that their suggestions many times dont work. Caltrac gives you a suggested starting point. Do you think that works the same for a 500HP Stocker iwth 9 inch tire and a 4 speed as it does for a 3000# bracket car with 700HP? Of course not. We have 10's of thousands of runs down the track, and theory doesnt always meet reality. They all may give you what they see as their application, they many times dont work. Race cars are constantly changing, flexing, moving, torquing, thrusting etc. What is set at a static rest doesn not mean that it works at speed or under motion. What I am saying is no matter how many books you read, how many classes you go to, how many videos you watch, real experienced builders, racers, chassis tuners etc, find other ways to make the cars work. What the manufacters often give you is a starting point. It may work, it may not. One of our racers recently fell upon a tune up that everyone said was a complete waste of time, no way could it work, your beating your head against the wall etc etc. Guess what. Fastest pass in class history.BUT, if he listened to the experts, it never would have been tried. So my point is, experience never lies, results never cheat. It is what it is. If Monte, Mike, BG, myself, the man on the moon say something works, then it works. If you oppose that, thats absolutley fine. Your perogative. You recently were tuning your car for your first passes on it correct? I bet you found out some things about tuning your carb and engine during that process? Did you nail your combo right out of the gate beacause of all this reading material? Did you need to ask for some help in tuning it perhaps? Is your car maximized already? I bet not. It takes time, laps and experience. I will listen to the experience first every time. Thats my point.

I said my peace, thats all I'll say, and continue to watch the fun....I got work to do...




while I agree with 90% of that there is no need to disrespect any of the people who have different opinions. while I may not have the experience of working with high dollar cars like Monte I do have over 30 years of racing and messing with race cars at a lower level. and yes it does take time and trying new things to get a new car right. when I ask for help I am looking for different opinions and may or may not use them. A different set of eyes often help. and sometimes I forget things I that have worked in the past. just like the carb issue I had. I had solved the same problem years ago with the same motor but got off in one direction that was not working. when Dram suggested a different cam I remembered what it took the first time. so different views are great and I would never put down any of you guys down who have vast experience like yourself. I have watched comments about your service and talked with people and would not hesitate to use them if you were closer.

Post deleted by Defbob [Re: Quicktree] #553147
12/20/09 11:11 AM
12/20/09 11:11 AM

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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success [Re: Quicktree] #553148
12/20/09 11:34 AM
12/20/09 11:34 AM
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Syracuse,NY
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No dis-respect meant Tony..just my opinion and feelings, observances. I know you have raced for years, so not meant any other way. I'm involved with lots of cars and just see things from a different perspective in that regard. I am a sponge for information and study lots of these things, and just find that things often work out different on the track. Again, just my thoughts, but no disprespect.


RIP Monte Smith

Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.

WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success #553149
12/20/09 11:46 AM
12/20/09 11:46 AM
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Quote:

who has more competitive SS/HA running today Dave Morgan or Mike Roth
same goes for pro mods and 10.5 cars Morgan or Monte




has really nothing to do with, Mike is one of the best around no doubt. but Dave has done more than write a book. he has workerd for some of the biggest names in the chassis business. and done consulting for some high dollar teams.

Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success [Re: Sport440] #553150
12/20/09 03:58 PM
12/20/09 03:58 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

The pinion will move from it's preset angle and it's relationship to the driveshaft.




Can you please explain as you understand it. mike


Not Mike, but will answer for him, there is no "as we understand it", it is what it is. The pinion does NOT maintain the same plane, through the arc of differential travel. Don't know any other way to explain it. The differential, does not stay stationary in one spot and simply move up and down. It SWINGS in an ARC. If it does this, the pinion can not possibly stay on the same plane. A 4-link is, to way over simplify here, nothing more than a long ladder bar. Properly set up, if you extended the upper and lower bars, they would eventually intersect. This is the "Instant Center" of a 4-link. The rear swings in an arc, from this instant center. Now where a ladder bar and 4-link differ, is that a ladder bar has a constant instant center, that being the front mounting point and a 4 link has a large amount of instant center combinations, depending on where you position the bars. Also, with the position of the brackets on the housing and the fact that the top and bottom bars are generally not the exact same length, the instant center of a 4-link is also constantly changing as the rear swings. I don't know of any other more clear way to try to explain it.

Monte

Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success [Re: Monte_Smith] #553151
12/20/09 04:02 PM
12/20/09 04:02 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The pinion will move from it's preset angle and it's relationship to the driveshaft.




Can you please explain as you understand it. mike


Not Mike, but will answer for him, there is no "as we understand it", it is what it is. The pinion does NOT maintain the same plane, through the arc of differential travel. Don't know any other way to explain it. The differential, does not stay stationary in one spot and simply move up and down. It SWINGS in an ARC. If it does this, the pinion can not possibly stay on the same plane. A 4-link is, to way over simplify here, nothing more than a long ladder bar. Properly set up, if you extended the upper and lower bars, they would eventually intersect. This is the "Instant Center" of a 4-link. The rear swings in an arc, from this instant center. Now where a ladder bar and 4-link differ, is that a ladder bar has a constant instant center, that being the front mounting point and a 4 link has a large amount of instant center combinations, depending on where you position the bars. Also, with the position of the brackets on the housing and the fact that the top and bottom bars are generally not the exact same length, the instant center of a 4-link is also constantly changing as the rear swings. I don't know of any other more clear way to try to explain it.

Monte




I think I will get a gopro camera and take some video. and see how much movement we actually get.

Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success [Re: Quicktree] #553152
12/20/09 04:03 PM
12/20/09 04:03 PM
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North Alabama
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Quote:

Quote:

who has more competitive SS/HA running today Dave Morgan or Mike Roth
same goes for pro mods and 10.5 cars Morgan or Monte




has really nothing to do with, Mike is one of the best around no doubt. but Dave has done more than write a book. he has workerd for some of the biggest names in the chassis business. and done consulting for some high dollar teams.


Why does he not do that now? Not knocking, just asking. And as I mentioned, he admitted to a friend of mine, that he was a good bit behind on some of the newer technology and needed to get to the track more often. The point is, theory and what is considered "right" change everyday.

Monte

Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success [Re: Monte_Smith] #553153
12/20/09 04:06 PM
12/20/09 04:06 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

who has more competitive SS/HA running today Dave Morgan or Mike Roth
same goes for pro mods and 10.5 cars Morgan or Monte




has really nothing to do with, Mike is one of the best around no doubt. but Dave has done more than write a book. he has workerd for some of the biggest names in the chassis business. and done consulting for some high dollar teams.


Why does he not do that now? Not knocking, just asking. And as I mentioned, he admitted to a friend of mine, that he was a good bit behind on some of the newer technology and needed to get to the track more often. The point is, theory and what is considered "right" change everyday.

Monte




he does, and has plans for more in the future. he is now a track manager (2010) he also does hands on track time. and plans for a new book where I bet he goes over this subject in depth

Post deleted by Defbob [Re: Monte_Smith] #553154
12/20/09 04:07 PM
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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success [Re: Quicktree] #553155
12/20/09 04:10 PM
12/20/09 04:10 PM
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Charleston
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

who has more competitive SS/HA running today Dave Morgan or Mike Roth
same goes for pro mods and 10.5 cars Morgan or Monte




has really nothing to do with, Mike is one of the best around no doubt. but Dave has done more than write a book. he has workerd for some of the biggest names in the chassis business. and done consulting for some high dollar teams.


Why does he not do that now? Not knocking, just asking. And as I mentioned, he admitted to a friend of mine, that he was a good bit behind on some of the newer technology and needed to get to the track more often. The point is, theory and what is considered "right" change everyday.

Monte




he does, and has plans for more in the future. he is now a track manager (2010) he also does hands on track time. and plans for a new book where I bet he goes over this subject in depth




sign me up for the new book


Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success #553156
12/20/09 04:11 PM
12/20/09 04:11 PM
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I have sent the two methods to a group of scientific geniuses .
This is the very same group that did all the global warming research .However at the present time they are snow bound in Copenhagen. When they reply I will post their findings



you know good and well they can't speak english and walk on all 4s

Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success [Re: sixpackgut] #553157
12/20/09 04:13 PM
12/20/09 04:13 PM
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Tampa Florida
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Holy crap this is worse than one of Edvis's post

Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success [Re: dc426] #553158
12/20/09 04:21 PM
12/20/09 04:21 PM
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Holy crap this is worse than one of Edvis's post




whats wrong with it?

looks like the most popular post on the board to me

Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success [Re: sixpackgut] #553159
12/20/09 04:22 PM
12/20/09 04:22 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

who has more competitive SS/HA running today Dave Morgan or Mike Roth
same goes for pro mods and 10.5 cars Morgan or Monte




has really nothing to do with, Mike is one of the best around no doubt. but Dave has done more than write a book. he has workerd for some of the biggest names in the chassis business. and done consulting for some high dollar teams.


Why does he not do that now? Not knocking, just asking. And as I mentioned, he admitted to a friend of mine, that he was a good bit behind on some of the newer technology and needed to get to the track more often. The point is, theory and what is considered "right" change everyday.

Monte




he does, and has plans for more in the future. he is now a track manager (2010) he also does hands on track time. and plans for a new book where I bet he goes over this subject in depth




sign me up for the new book




why you already know everything. no need for you to read

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