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440 Build up for max TQ Help. #54838 03/14/08 05:31 AM 03/14/08 05:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	Well I just got my wife's 440 back from the machine shop and its time to start picking the other parts for the engine and I need some opinions. My Goal is to use the stock 902 heads and buld as much power as I can so that her 70 Challenger stands a chance against my LS6 Chevelle. I need to stay with a 92-93 octane premium fuel. Can you help me choose some Hyperutectic pistons and a hydraulic cam? I am using stock cast crank and rods. Thanks Milan

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54839 03/14/08 05:58 AM 03/14/08 05:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,221 Branson, Mo. J joedust451 super gas
joedust451 super gas J Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,221 Branson, Mo.	Quote: Well I just got my wife's 440 back from the machine shop and its time to start picking the other parts for the engine and I need some opinions. My Goal is to use the stock 902 heads and buld as much power as I can so that her 70 Challenger stands a chance against my LS6 Chevelle. I need to stay with a 92-93 octane premium fuel. Can you help me choose some Hyperutectic pistons and a hydraulic cam? I am using stock cast crank and rods. Thanks Milan Milan, i would use the KB quench dome pistons & a cam in the mid-high 230s split on dur. @ 50 with a lift around 500/510 on a 110 (i would look at the VooDoo cams), either a SD or RPM (prefer the SD) with an 850 & 1.7/8 headers, Ron (383man) has a nice set-up & its in the mid 11s with iron heads, he runs on pump gas. Now don't sink too much in those iron heads, if they need a total going through, you may just want to get some 440Source Stealths with a FT piston, but if the 902s are in good shape & are ready to run, for an added .2 & 2-3 mph, a nice bowl blend & back-cut on the valves should do it, this stuff plus a moderate stall & gears should no doubt spank that LS6

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: joedust451] #54840 03/14/08 01:06 PM 03/14/08 01:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	I'm kinda surprised by the relatively short duration. is there much HP to be gained with more duration? I know I worded the question inquiring about Torque....

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54841 03/15/08 02:55 AM 03/15/08 02:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	Joe thank you for the kind words about my 63. Yes I use open chamber stock type iron 906 heads. I also use the KB quench pad pistons to get about .042 quench and it runs fine on 92 pump. I use the solid MP .557 cam that had 296 advertised duration and it works great on my 63's 440 for the street. I will say this that it is alot of work using the quench pad pistons and open chamber heads. I had to measure each head chamber depth and each piston pad height. Then I had to do some grining on the chambers to get the quench even on all cylinders. I only used that setup because I got the parts real cheap from my brother. If you decide to use the Stealth (440Source) aluminum closed chamber heads it would be much easier to build a flattop piston zero deck eng and then use Felpro .039 head gaskets with the closed chamber heads. But that said I used the KB quench pad pistons and I spent the time to get even quench and the car runs as good or better then I wanted and I think it still has more in it as I have done no serious tuning yet. At 3700 lbs with a basically stock bottom end 440 and factory iron heads it has run 11.50's @ 116 so far and I drive it to the track as it is my street car driver. I was looking for mid to high 11's so I hit my goal with no trouble. If you have not bought pistons I would think real hard about using the $899. closed chamber heads and get a flattop piston that will sit at zero deck. It will be easier to build. Good luck , Ron Last edited by 383man; 03/15/08 02:58 AM.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: 383man] #54842 03/15/08 03:00 AM 03/15/08 03:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	Oh and I do use the stock 440 crank and rods which I had the rods bushed for the floating pins. Ron

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: 383man] #54843 03/15/08 09:47 AM 03/15/08 09:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	Well either way I need to buy pistons. adding another 1K to the build cost is not an option, so i will stay with the 902 heads I have. What number are the KB pistons you used and what compression HT(wrist pin) piston should I choose in your opinion? I want to stay away from any grinding.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54844 03/15/08 09:59 AM 03/15/08 09:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,748 A collage of whims topside Too Many Posts
topside Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,748 A collage of whims	I would recommend getting the pistons first and then boring the block to size. Use the best ARP fasteners on your rods. The LY rods are better (lighter) than the "6-pack" rods. I'd go straight to the Stealth heads, look for the thread on here about their flow #s. Those & flat tops near zero deck will allow 10:1 or better depending on cam overlap. Advance curve will likely take some tweaking, especially with iron heads. Match the converter to cam/gear/weight (call Dynamic). Put some tire under it!

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: topside] #54845 03/15/08 12:52 PM 03/15/08 12:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	Quote: I would recommend getting the pistons first and then boring the block to size. there. Different styles of pistons require different amounts of clearance. Forged, hyper, their requirements are not all the same.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #54846 03/16/08 02:25 AM 03/16/08 02:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	The piston I used part # is KB146. Here is the website. Ron http://kb-silvolite.com/performance.php?action=details&P_id=28

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: 383man] #54847 03/16/08 08:41 AM 03/16/08 08:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	I was contemplating between the KB146 and KB236 any thoughts between those two pistons?

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54848 03/16/08 10:22 AM 03/16/08 10:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,764 Holland MI Ottawa 2 2boltmain master
2boltmain master 2 Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,764 Holland MI Ottawa	In the 80s I owned 2 challengers where we took good running 375hp 440 magnums and did rings, bearings, gaskets and oil pump. (These engines were around in good condition then) Heads were left alone if they looked fine (usually 906) but added the old stand byes- Torker intake, Holley 750 carb, blackjack headers, cam- I ran the mopar 484 purpeshaft, shift improver kit and a sure grip rearend. With a 3:23 gear the one ran high 13s. Even with OEM heads it asy to make a 440 run provided the compression is there. Years ago a mopar mag built a 440 to stock 375 hp specs. THEIR dyno pulled around 360 hp. Then they added an M1 single plane, Holley mechanical secondary carb, 509 cam and headers. They then pulled 425 hp. Heads were restored 906s but not bowl ported or dressed. 509 cam has lots of duration but the point is how well the motor responded. Keep old mopars alive.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: 2boltmain] #54849 03/16/08 10:57 AM 03/16/08 10:57 AM
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 549 Chicagoland chargerron69 mopar
chargerron69 mopar Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 549 Chicagoland	i went 11.80s with a stock unported 452 head in 67 coronet with a comp xtreme energy XE292 cam with about 9-9.5 compression with trw pistons in it. i was really impressed by it. and the the motor has a really nice sound at idle. Ron 67 Coronet 383 hogged out 906's 727 430 dana best 10.48 @126.80 1.47 60 on fogger same car pump gas 605 wedge 9.98 @ 138.42 1.50 60 on wore out 9 inch radial slick ss springs and frame connectors its got more in it!!! 72 Newport 2 door 400 727 85 Ram 440 4 speed O/D 3.54 dana

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54850 01/24/09 07:29 AM 01/24/09 07:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	Quote: I was contemplating between the KB146 and KB236 any thoughts between those two pistons? Any thoughts between these TWO? I ordered a set of KB363 only to have summit cancell my order saying those pistons are no longer made. I have a SUMMIT-6401 Cam in the block now Thanks Milan

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54851 01/24/09 09:46 AM 01/24/09 09:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada Dodgem master
Dodgem master Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada	That cam is milder than a stock 383 335 hp cam??

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Dodgem] #54852 01/24/09 09:58 AM 01/24/09 09:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	I dont have a budget for a High HP build. That is why i am focusing on max torque. I doubt stock heads will support much more than that cam has to offer. The next best cam was almost twice the cost.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Dodgem] #54853 01/24/09 10:03 AM 01/24/09 10:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	Lots of good info already posted, but a 440 is going to make a ton of torque anyway. How bad do you want to destory the tires? You can make 500hp and 500+ torque faily easy w/o big cams, a ton of port work and so on. You are going to want to stay away from the MP 484 and 509 (old grinds) To beat your LS1 she could probably use a 340 cam...lol I'd go with something in the 230 @ .050 range and 500-510 lift. Then you'll want headers, a good dual plane intake, nice hot spark and while you could get away w/ a 750DP a 850DP would be better. using a cam w/ 500+ lift you're going to want to run a 2400 or so stall and at least 3.55's. Good luck.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54854 01/24/09 10:12 AM 01/24/09 10:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	Quote: Quote: I was contemplating between the KB146 and KB236 any thoughts between those two pistons? Any thoughts between these TWO? I ordered a set of KB363 only to have summit cancell my order saying those pistons are no longer made. I have a SUMMIT-6401 Cam in the block now Thanks Milan I had that in my 67 coronet. Good cam. I liked it much better than the 484 that was in it. It had a much beeter power band and great drib=vability. My 440 was mostly stock 9:1, stock 906 heads in a 3900lbs car and it ran 12.90's. With more compression and better heads I could have ran 12.50's

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54855 01/24/09 10:16 AM 01/24/09 10:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440
blownzoom440 B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	Milan i have some items laying around that need to be used,2 cams,air filter&base,manley valves[2.08]i can tradeswap or cheap$ to help out.PM me.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: blownzoom440] #54856 01/24/09 10:57 AM 01/24/09 10:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,941 WI Dcuda69 master
Dcuda69 master Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,941 WI	Wow,this thread started in Mar.08 about torque,then to be able to run with an LS6 Chevelle and do it on a budget? I think the LS6 made 450hp and 500ft lb in stock form. Didn't the LS6 have some good flowing heads and a solid cam in them? I think it will take more than TQ to make them run together. A good torquey 440 will run out of steam as that LS6 starts working. 10.5:1 comp. ratio,some good heads,a modern cam(maybe solid)exhaust,converter,gears,etc.If you want to run with that LS6,you'll have to build it w/similar components. P.S Ron's(383 Man) is your guideline,well thought out and executed combo! Last edited by Dcuda69; 01/24/09 11:02 AM.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Dcuda69] #54857 01/24/09 11:05 AM 01/24/09 11:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440
blownzoom440 B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	Quote: Wow,this thread started in Mar.08 about torque,then to be able to run with an LS6 Chevelle and do it on a budget? I think the LS6 made 450hp and 500ft lb in stock form. Didn't the LS6 have some good flowing heads and a solid cam in them? I think it will take more than TQ to make them run together. A good torquey 440 will run out of steam as that LS6 starts working. 10.5:1 comp. ratio,some good heads,a modern cam(maybe solid)exhaust,converter,gears,etc.If you want to run with that LS6,you'll have to build it w/similar components. P.S Ron's(383 Man) is your guideline,well thought out and executed combo! TQ over a wide rpm band.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Dcuda69] #54858 01/24/09 11:18 AM 01/24/09 11:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,545 Seattle, WA 3 375inStroke Special needs person
375inStroke Special needs person 3 Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,545 Seattle, WA	How does the motor come back from the machine shop and you don't have the pistons yet? Aren't the cylinders machined to the requirements of the pistons? Do you have 902 or 906 heads? Not familiar with 902. What parts do you have, how fast do you want to run (don't know how fast your Chevelle is), and how much money do you have to spend. What's your car's weight, gear, trans... You want headers? That's a good price to power ratio addition if you can deal with the hassles.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: 375inStroke] #54859 01/24/09 01:31 PM 01/24/09 01:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	The challenger is for stoplight to stoplight fun. My wife takes her car and I take the Chevelle and we go cruising on the weekends. We throw the kids in the car and have fun. Every once in a while she will take it to the strip when we run the race car. I plan on putting the drag radials on the challenger and make them work. The chevelle runs mid 12s at 109mph. I was trying to figure out which KB Hyper piston to put in the 440 for the challenger. 4970066-p8260405jx7.jpg (148 downloads)

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54860 01/24/09 01:37 PM 01/24/09 01:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440
blownzoom440 B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	do you have a cranking cr/psi with that cam? are the chambers polished on the heads?

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: blownzoom440] #54861 01/24/09 03:47 PM 01/24/09 03:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	The motor has never been together. Right now the car has a 318 in it. The heads are stock. I have not done any work to them. Mike I just viewed some of your 8-71 pics. I had to throw my E-85 67 pic in here. No flames fellas 4970341-Camaro020.jpg (133 downloads) Last edited by Milan; 01/24/09 03:55 PM.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54862 01/24/09 04:01 PM 01/24/09 04:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440
blownzoom440 B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	looks good. 4970372-Aug05$08.JPG (278 downloads) Last edited by METAL STORM; 01/24/09 04:09 PM.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: blownzoom440] #54863 01/24/09 04:34 PM 01/24/09 04:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,163 NORTHERN VA T THESHAKERPROJECT super stock
THESHAKERPROJECT super stock T Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,163 NORTHERN VA	For MAX TQ you want a small duration cam. I use a Crower cam #32243 that can be used with STOCK rockers/pushrods and STOCK converter and 323/355 gears. My 71 Charger R/T runs well inmto the 12s with this cam, thermoquad, holley street dominator intake, TTI Headers and 355 rear and stock 11.75 converter and drag radials. The car has unreal TQ that moves my 4000lb + car like you will not believe and the idle and drivability of my car is like stock. A combo like this in a lighter car like a Challenger should run low to mid 12s easily.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54864 01/24/09 05:11 PM 01/24/09 05:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440
blownzoom440 B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	Quote: I dont have a budget for a High HP build. That is why i am focusing on max torque. I doubt stock heads will support much more than that cam has to offer. The next best cam was almost twice the cost. i like that cam!run it and see what it needs after that. edit:i ran it in my dyno sim with that cam. 4970529-100_1810.jpg (144 downloads) Last edited by METAL STORM; 01/24/09 11:51 PM.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: blownzoom440] #54865 01/24/09 07:40 PM 01/24/09 07:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440
blownzoom440 B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	i have to recheck theKB-146 and 236 but here is a KB to look at. http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=UEM%2DKB278030%2D8&autoview=sku 1.996 CH,.200quench pad that will help with the pump gas.with these you could polish some out of the chamber also or just smooth it. edit: part 2 of above. 4970797-100_1807.jpg (130 downloads) Last edited by METAL STORM; 01/24/09 11:56 PM.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: blownzoom440] #54866 01/25/09 01:41 AM 01/25/09 01:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	Mike, I am a bow tie guy. I am struggling to undestand the difference between the 1.996 amd the 2.057 Compression height as it pertains to Mopars. The math I did tels me that a 1.996 piston would leave the pistom too far in the hole. (?) THX Milan

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54867 01/25/09 02:11 AM 01/25/09 02:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	Quote: The math I did tels me that a 1.996 piston would leave the pistom too far in the hole. (?) THX Milan It would be too far in the hole, unless it's a quench done piston, in which case the quench dome would likely pop up an additional .140 or something like that. A flat top with a 1.996 would be nothing great, that's more like a stock late 60's 440 piston. If you want to build a zero deck 440 you want something with around a 2.060" compression height.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54868 01/25/09 02:18 AM 01/25/09 02:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Quote: Mike, I am a bow tie guy. I am struggling to undestand the difference between the 1.996 amd the 2.057 Compression height as it pertains to Mopars. The math I did tels me that a 1.996 piston would leave the pistom too far in the hole. (?) THX Milan First, have you measured the distance from the gasket surface of each chamber of both heads to the flat part of the open chambers? You'll find that they rarely are the same so getting acurate quench is problematic, you wind up either grinding the chambers to equalized them (like Ron did) or milling each piston dome specificly for the chambers...With quench dome pistons you typically cut either the dome or the head to set quench anyway.. The deal on a short C/H is by lowering the flat area of the piston but raising the quench dome your able to get a reasonable compression ratio...If you keep the standard C/H & push the quench dome to within .040 of touching the compression ratio would be >11-1... FWIW the machining needed to make quench work + rebuilding your heads will be close to equal the cost of Stealth heads which is why people continue to push you that way...Then there is the perfomance advantage of a better flowing head.... The bad thing is the short block needs to be built with the head choice in mind, if you build it expecting to put a closed chamber head on it later & shoot for zero deck than it will detonate with the open chamber head...... Good Luck with it...

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #54869 01/25/09 08:50 AM 01/25/09 08:50 AM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440
blownzoom440 B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	that KB is a quench piston.check the link!i was waiting to get to this point and say that you need to measure the deck height when the engine is appart to be sure what you have then deck as needed or buy the piston that works.my 2.050CH piston was .060 in the hole.so you need to measure. there is a KB that is 2.065CH on the summit page. Part Number: UEM-KB278030-8 Bore (in): 4.350 in. Bore (mm): 110.490mm Piston Style: Step head, with a trough Piston Material: Hypereutectic aluminum Compression Distance (in): 1.992 in. Dome Height (in): 0.200 in. Piston Head Volume (cc): -5.00cc Wrist Pin Style: Press-fit or floating Pin Diameter (in): 1.094 in. Piston Ring Thickness: 5/64 in. x 5/64 in. x 3/16 in. Quantity: Sold as a set of 8. Notes: 0.200 inch quench dome height. Piston gram weight 775g, pin gram weight 190g. Pistons, Hypereutectic, Step, 4.350 in. Bore, 5/64 in., 5/64 in., 3/16 in. Ring, Big Block Mopar, Set of 8 here is some stroke info.go to 440/440 kit 1/2 way down. http://www.440source.com/strokerkits.htm depending on the cc's of the head and if your block has never been decked. here is the other piston. Part Number: UEM-KB237030-8 Bore (in): 4.350 in. Bore (mm): 110.490mm Piston Style: Flat top, with two valve reliefs Piston Material: Hypereutectic aluminum Compression Distance (in): 2.067 in. Piston Head Volume (cc): +5.00cc Wrist Pin Style: Press-fit or floating Pin Diameter (in): 1.094 in. Piston Ring Thickness: 5/64 in. x 5/64 in. x 3/16 in. Quantity: Sold as a set of 8. Notes: Piston gram weight 770g, pin gram weight 190g. Pistons, Hypereutectic, Flat, 4.350 in. Bore, 5/64 in., 5/64 in., 3/16 in. Ring, Big Block Mopar, Set of 8 here s the KB site link for info. http://kb-silvolite.com/performance.php?action=details&P_id=27 Last edited by METAL STORM; 01/25/09 10:33 AM.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: blownzoom440] #54870 01/25/09 03:13 PM 01/25/09 03:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	It looks like the KB278 is the only one that will give me a good quench area clearance of 0.037. I will need to have machine work for the others. I was hoping to get 9.5:1 or 10:1 CR. It looks like that wont happen as the CR given for the 278 is 8.8:1.... Piston Style-KB to consider-quench dome HT-C.R. at 90cc-Option-Compr. height-Quench dome above deck-installed C.H.-quench clearance step head-----KB2360600------.075-------9.9-----------Yes---------2.057---------0.047------------0.028-----------0.097 trough--------KB146060------0.075-------9.9-----------Yes---------2.057---------0.047------------0.028-0.----------097 big stephead--KB278060------0.200-------8.8-----------Yes---------1.992---------0.107-------------0.093-----------0.037 flattop--------KB237060------0-----------9.7------------no---------2.067--------------0.018--------0.018---- ------0.162 cancelled----- kb184-- -----0.140---------8.9 ----------no--------- 1.992----------- 0.047 ----------0.093 -----------0.084

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54871 01/25/09 03:19 PM 01/25/09 03:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440
blownzoom440 B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	do you know the cc of your heads?88cc's milling the head is fairly cheap. you should have a lot of P/T clearance.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: blownzoom440] #54872 01/25/09 03:25 PM 01/25/09 03:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	I CC-ed the heads and they are at 89cc-90cc across the board

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54873 01/25/09 03:28 PM 01/25/09 03:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Quote: I CC-ed the heads and they are at 89cc-90cc across the board But did you measure the chamber depth on each one..

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54874 01/25/09 03:32 PM 01/25/09 03:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440
blownzoom440 B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	well mopart did a test with head gaskets and the first point in cr gained 15HP[8/1cr to 9/1]the weather can change that so what is it worth to you? upgrade the cam later after you get the P/V measured with this cam.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #54875 01/25/09 03:36 PM 01/25/09 03:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440
blownzoom440 B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	Quote: Quote: I CC-ed the heads and they are at 89cc-90cc across the board But did you measure the chamber depth on each one.. an easy fix with a scotchbrite disc. 4972482-Mar06^17.JPG (301 downloads) Last edited by METAL STORM; 01/25/09 03:39 PM.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: blownzoom440] #54876 01/25/09 03:43 PM 01/25/09 03:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	The step in each cylinder was at or very close to 1.05". Looks like my best bet will be the KB278 then. I guess its more inportant to have as efficient of a cylinder (good quench) than a higher CR and poor quench. I'm just not used to pistons being so far in the hole and I am struggling with that. I guess its from my time on the BowTie side of the fence.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54877 01/25/09 03:54 PM 01/25/09 03:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440
blownzoom440 B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	maybe there isanother piston and you have not found it yet. used or new.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54878 01/25/09 03:54 PM 01/25/09 03:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Good quench isn't of much value if the C/R is less than 9-1... It's more work but I would use a shorter quench pad & mill the head & block as needed to get quench & 10-1+C/R

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #54879 01/25/09 11:23 PM 01/25/09 11:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	Well looks like I need to go with the KB146 as Ron originally suggested then.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54880 01/25/09 11:27 PM 01/25/09 11:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Ron's 63 obviously runs hard, he's got a good strong combo, chased the details to make it right & the car performs...

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54881 01/25/09 11:44 PM 01/25/09 11:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,616 Riverside, Ca G G_bob master
G_bob master G Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,616 Riverside, Ca	FWIW, I had 902 heads on the 440 in the challenger when I first put it together. I used the TRW sixpack pistons which are flat tops with eyebrow valve reliefs. Block was decked .040 and heads were cut .015. The .040 cut on the deck put those pistons at zero deck height. Felpro .039 gasket and CR was 9.8:1. I ran the 484 cam with performer RPM manifold and 770 street avenger carb. 3.91 gears with 28" T/A radials netted a best of 13.19 at 108.5. Those tires wouldn't hook and best 60' was 2.10, so it had 12's in it for sure with a decent tire. With the lousy quench from the open chamber heads, it wouldn't run without rattling on our 91 octane here in Calif. I had to mix in some 110 to get the octane up around 94. Now I have edelbrocks on it with a sixpack setup. It has .040 quench, 10.2:1, and runs fine on the 91 octane now. Haven't been back to the track with it, so no idea what it would run now. Still has the T/A radials on it.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: G_bob] #54882 01/26/09 05:32 AM 01/26/09 05:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440
blownzoom440 B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	i posted about the pistons in the race section.there is some V/Pcam info.you have some good info to help now.i hope to meet you some time around town milan! https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post4971697 Last edited by METAL STORM; 01/26/09 05:38 AM.

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