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440 Build up for max TQ Help. #54838 03/14/08 05:31 AM 03/14/08 05:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	Well I just got my wife's 440 back from the machine shop and its time to start picking the other parts for the engine and I need some opinions. My Goal is to use the stock 902 heads and buld as much power as I can so that her 70 Challenger stands a chance against my LS6 Chevelle. I need to stay with a 92-93 octane premium fuel. Can you help me choose some Hyperutectic pistons and a hydraulic cam? I am using stock cast crank and rods. Thanks Milan

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54839 03/14/08 05:58 AM 03/14/08 05:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,221 Branson, Mo. J joedust451 super gas
joedust451 super gas J Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 5,221 Branson, Mo.	Quote: Well I just got my wife's 440 back from the machine shop and its time to start picking the other parts for the engine and I need some opinions. My Goal is to use the stock 902 heads and buld as much power as I can so that her 70 Challenger stands a chance against my LS6 Chevelle. I need to stay with a 92-93 octane premium fuel. Can you help me choose some Hyperutectic pistons and a hydraulic cam? I am using stock cast crank and rods. Thanks Milan Milan, i would use the KB quench dome pistons & a cam in the mid-high 230s split on dur. @ 50 with a lift around 500/510 on a 110 (i would look at the VooDoo cams), either a SD or RPM (prefer the SD) with an 850 & 1.7/8 headers, Ron (383man) has a nice set-up & its in the mid 11s with iron heads, he runs on pump gas. Now don't sink too much in those iron heads, if they need a total going through, you may just want to get some 440Source Stealths with a FT piston, but if the 902s are in good shape & are ready to run, for an added .2 & 2-3 mph, a nice bowl blend & back-cut on the valves should do it, this stuff plus a moderate stall & gears should no doubt spank that LS6

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: joedust451] #54840 03/14/08 01:06 PM 03/14/08 01:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	I'm kinda surprised by the relatively short duration. is there much HP to be gained with more duration? I know I worded the question inquiring about Torque....

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54841 03/15/08 02:55 AM 03/15/08 02:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	Joe thank you for the kind words about my 63. Yes I use open chamber stock type iron 906 heads. I also use the KB quench pad pistons to get about .042 quench and it runs fine on 92 pump. I use the solid MP .557 cam that had 296 advertised duration and it works great on my 63's 440 for the street. I will say this that it is alot of work using the quench pad pistons and open chamber heads. I had to measure each head chamber depth and each piston pad height. Then I had to do some grining on the chambers to get the quench even on all cylinders. I only used that setup because I got the parts real cheap from my brother. If you decide to use the Stealth (440Source) aluminum closed chamber heads it would be much easier to build a flattop piston zero deck eng and then use Felpro .039 head gaskets with the closed chamber heads. But that said I used the KB quench pad pistons and I spent the time to get even quench and the car runs as good or better then I wanted and I think it still has more in it as I have done no serious tuning yet. At 3700 lbs with a basically stock bottom end 440 and factory iron heads it has run 11.50's @ 116 so far and I drive it to the track as it is my street car driver. I was looking for mid to high 11's so I hit my goal with no trouble. If you have not bought pistons I would think real hard about using the $899. closed chamber heads and get a flattop piston that will sit at zero deck. It will be easier to build. Good luck , Ron Last edited by 383man; 03/15/08 02:58 AM.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: 383man] #54842 03/15/08 03:00 AM 03/15/08 03:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	Oh and I do use the stock 440 crank and rods which I had the rods bushed for the floating pins. Ron

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: 383man] #54843 03/15/08 09:47 AM 03/15/08 09:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	Well either way I need to buy pistons. adding another 1K to the build cost is not an option, so i will stay with the 902 heads I have. What number are the KB pistons you used and what compression HT(wrist pin) piston should I choose in your opinion? I want to stay away from any grinding.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54844 03/15/08 09:59 AM 03/15/08 09:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,726 A collage of whims topside Too Many Posts
topside Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,726 A collage of whims	I would recommend getting the pistons first and then boring the block to size. Use the best ARP fasteners on your rods. The LY rods are better (lighter) than the "6-pack" rods. I'd go straight to the Stealth heads, look for the thread on here about their flow #s. Those & flat tops near zero deck will allow 10:1 or better depending on cam overlap. Advance curve will likely take some tweaking, especially with iron heads. Match the converter to cam/gear/weight (call Dynamic). Put some tire under it!

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: topside] #54845 03/15/08 12:52 PM 03/15/08 12:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	Quote: I would recommend getting the pistons first and then boring the block to size. there. Different styles of pistons require different amounts of clearance. Forged, hyper, their requirements are not all the same.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #54846 03/16/08 02:25 AM 03/16/08 02:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	The piston I used part # is KB146. Here is the website. Ron http://kb-silvolite.com/performance.php?action=details&P_id=28

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: 383man] #54847 03/16/08 08:41 AM 03/16/08 08:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	I was contemplating between the KB146 and KB236 any thoughts between those two pistons?

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54848 03/16/08 10:22 AM 03/16/08 10:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,761 Holland MI Ottawa 2 2boltmain master
2boltmain master 2 Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,761 Holland MI Ottawa	In the 80s I owned 2 challengers where we took good running 375hp 440 magnums and did rings, bearings, gaskets and oil pump. (These engines were around in good condition then) Heads were left alone if they looked fine (usually 906) but added the old stand byes- Torker intake, Holley 750 carb, blackjack headers, cam- I ran the mopar 484 purpeshaft, shift improver kit and a sure grip rearend. With a 3:23 gear the one ran high 13s. Even with OEM heads it asy to make a 440 run provided the compression is there. Years ago a mopar mag built a 440 to stock 375 hp specs. THEIR dyno pulled around 360 hp. Then they added an M1 single plane, Holley mechanical secondary carb, 509 cam and headers. They then pulled 425 hp. Heads were restored 906s but not bowl ported or dressed. 509 cam has lots of duration but the point is how well the motor responded. Keep old mopars alive.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: 2boltmain] #54849 03/16/08 10:57 AM 03/16/08 10:57 AM
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 549 Chicagoland chargerron69 mopar
chargerron69 mopar Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 549 Chicagoland	i went 11.80s with a stock unported 452 head in 67 coronet with a comp xtreme energy XE292 cam with about 9-9.5 compression with trw pistons in it. i was really impressed by it. and the the motor has a really nice sound at idle. Ron 67 Coronet 383 hogged out 906's 727 430 dana best 10.48 @126.80 1.47 60 on fogger same car pump gas 605 wedge 9.98 @ 138.42 1.50 60 on wore out 9 inch radial slick ss springs and frame connectors its got more in it!!! 72 Newport 2 door 400 727 85 Ram 440 4 speed O/D 3.54 dana

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54850 01/24/09 07:29 AM 01/24/09 07:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	Quote: I was contemplating between the KB146 and KB236 any thoughts between those two pistons? Any thoughts between these TWO? I ordered a set of KB363 only to have summit cancell my order saying those pistons are no longer made. I have a SUMMIT-6401 Cam in the block now Thanks Milan

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54851 01/24/09 09:46 AM 01/24/09 09:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada Dodgem master
Dodgem master Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada	That cam is milder than a stock 383 335 hp cam??

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Dodgem] #54852 01/24/09 09:58 AM 01/24/09 09:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA M Milan OP member
Milan OP member M Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 52 Westlake, Ohio, USA	I dont have a budget for a High HP build. That is why i am focusing on max torque. I doubt stock heads will support much more than that cam has to offer. The next best cam was almost twice the cost.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Dodgem] #54853 01/24/09 10:03 AM 01/24/09 10:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	Lots of good info already posted, but a 440 is going to make a ton of torque anyway. How bad do you want to destory the tires? You can make 500hp and 500+ torque faily easy w/o big cams, a ton of port work and so on. You are going to want to stay away from the MP 484 and 509 (old grinds) To beat your LS1 she could probably use a 340 cam...lol I'd go with something in the 230 @ .050 range and 500-510 lift. Then you'll want headers, a good dual plane intake, nice hot spark and while you could get away w/ a 750DP a 850DP would be better. using a cam w/ 500+ lift you're going to want to run a 2400 or so stall and at least 3.55's. Good luck.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54854 01/24/09 10:12 AM 01/24/09 10:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	Quote: Quote: I was contemplating between the KB146 and KB236 any thoughts between those two pistons? Any thoughts between these TWO? I ordered a set of KB363 only to have summit cancell my order saying those pistons are no longer made. I have a SUMMIT-6401 Cam in the block now Thanks Milan I had that in my 67 coronet. Good cam. I liked it much better than the 484 that was in it. It had a much beeter power band and great drib=vability. My 440 was mostly stock 9:1, stock 906 heads in a 3900lbs car and it ran 12.90's. With more compression and better heads I could have ran 12.50's

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Milan] #54855 01/24/09 10:16 AM 01/24/09 10:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440
blownzoom440 B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	Milan i have some items laying around that need to be used,2 cams,air filter&base,manley valves[2.08]i can tradeswap or cheap$ to help out.PM me.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: blownzoom440] #54856 01/24/09 10:57 AM 01/24/09 10:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,941 WI Dcuda69 master
Dcuda69 master Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,941 WI	Wow,this thread started in Mar.08 about torque,then to be able to run with an LS6 Chevelle and do it on a budget? I think the LS6 made 450hp and 500ft lb in stock form. Didn't the LS6 have some good flowing heads and a solid cam in them? I think it will take more than TQ to make them run together. A good torquey 440 will run out of steam as that LS6 starts working. 10.5:1 comp. ratio,some good heads,a modern cam(maybe solid)exhaust,converter,gears,etc.If you want to run with that LS6,you'll have to build it w/similar components. P.S Ron's(383 Man) is your guideline,well thought out and executed combo! Last edited by Dcuda69; 01/24/09 11:02 AM.

Re: 440 Build up for max TQ Help. [Re: Dcuda69] #54857 01/24/09 11:05 AM 01/24/09 11:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440
blownzoom440 B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	Quote: Wow,this thread started in Mar.08 about torque,then to be able to run with an LS6 Chevelle and do it on a budget? I think the LS6 made 450hp and 500ft lb in stock form. Didn't the LS6 have some good flowing heads and a solid cam in them? I think it will take more than TQ to make them run together. A good torquey 440 will run out of steam as that LS6 starts working. 10.5:1 comp. ratio,some good heads,a modern cam(maybe solid)exhaust,converter,gears,etc.If you want to run with that LS6,you'll have to build it w/similar components. P.S Ron's(383 Man) is your guideline,well thought out and executed combo! TQ over a wide rpm band.

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