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Re: ALUMINUM MASTER CYLINDER QUESTION???
[Re: 71383beep]
#54404
02/28/08 08:35 PM
02/28/08 08:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050
Texas
GoodysGotaCuda
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
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5.7L Hemi, 6spd
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050
Texas
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Quote:
Quote:
The point of the retainer is, say you go to hit the brakes. Take your foot off the gas, heads over to the brake pedal, coming up you catch the brake pedal. lifting it up some, pushrod can fall out = no brakes. I've caught it before with my foot, i have a retainer so no issue.
But its not to return the m/c, its a pushrod retainer.
Good point, but i am wondering if there is enough uppward travel to actually pull out the pushrod from the m/c. There is really no alot of travel there...I think the m/c piston travells only about 3-5" at most and the push rod sits in there a good 1.5 to 2.5" by estimate. Plus there is the point of where would the rod fall? If the rod was pulled out it would need to be pulled back nearly the entire length of the rod for it to fall inside the car.
I'll have to try that theory out when I remove the steel m/c on the car.
I rather not try and find out. I'll stick the retainer in. i'd think the factory did it because it was a possiblity, i'm good enough with that  
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Re: ALUMINUM MASTER CYLINDER QUESTION???
[Re: moparrush]
#54406
02/28/08 08:40 PM
02/28/08 08:40 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 134
san antonio, Texas
moparrush
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 134
san antonio, Texas
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I still haven't received a reply from Rick, but just to do a little investigating of parts interchageability, I removed the pistons from both master cylinders, and what a difference. The pistons on the right are out of the New aluminum piece which did not have the retaining boss, and the ones on the left are out of my Autozone steel unit. You can see the difference of the two master cylinders in the one photo. I took diameter dimensions and they both check out right at 1.122" inches. What surprises me is that the piston lands are larger on the left one, which is the steel autozone piece, than the nice aluminum one on the right. Not only that, the big difference is the connecting rod between the pistons is dramatically larger on the Autozone piece. To me this all goes to durability. With all the piston lands lining up, it looks as if it would be a good swap to interchange the parts. Remember the ugly mc in the back ground was a new piece from autozone, and has only sat on my car for a couple of months, while still doing the build on the car. I even painted it to prevent rust, but I guess not good enough, huh? So the internals are all still brand new. I'm going to swap them and see how well it works. For those of you who bought the same piece from Rick, this is one solution, I guess. Just go to Autozone swap out the guts and take it back for a refund. I know, I know, pretty cheesy, but it's money saved right?
Anyway the retainer is a safety feature to keep the rod from falling out of the master cylinder. Your right spring pressure is what resets the piston after depressing the brake, but if your pedal was to come out too far, for whatever reason, than you better hope your emeergency brake is working good. I'll let you know if I ever hear back from Rick. He was pretty quick to respond when I wanted to order the master cylinder, but I'll let you know when and if he responds about my issues with the piece.
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Re: ALUMINUM MASTER CYLINDER QUESTION???
[Re: moparrush]
#54410
02/28/08 11:05 PM
02/28/08 11:05 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 134
san antonio, Texas
moparrush
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 134
san antonio, Texas
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Well I got my response from Rick, and I'm posting that email here for you guys to read.
This is what Rick wrote in his email:
Do it the modern way: RTV.
Install m/cyl. Fill recess w/RTV. Slip pushrod, attached to pedal, into
the
goo, bottomed. Use bungee cord or weight, to maintian light / moderate
pressure. Don't touch for 24 hours.
Done.
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob McKinney" <moparrush@yahoo.com>
To: <rick@richardehrenberg.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 12:40 PM
Subject: aluminum master cylinder question
> Hi Rick,
> A few months back, I purchased one of your
> master cylinders for my project. Well I have gotten
> to the point of my build to install it, and looking at
> the back of the piston last night, my MC that you
> shipped me does not have the machined area for the
> retainer. Can you help with this?
> Bob McKinney
First of all his ad clearly states that these are machined for my pushrod and a direct bolt in deal. Well gooing up my master cylinder with RTV isn't exactly a bolt in deal, and secondly what a half [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] solution to the problem. I'd have to say be weary of this seller. I sent a response stating I wanted one with the machined recess, so in all fairness I'm giving him another shot to do the right thing. Well see....
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Re: ALUMINUM MASTER CYLINDER QUESTION???
[Re: volaredon]
#54411
02/28/08 11:29 PM
02/28/08 11:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 515
Dayton, Ohio
65cuda
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 515
Dayton, Ohio
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i used one off an 85 b350 on my cuda change over. thats what i was going to do until i saw Rick's add on here with the adapter plate. seemed like a good deal.
65 Cuda 360,3.23 SG-13.97 @99.4, 88 D100, 2000 Kota Qcab, 71 Duster 416 11.84 @110., 73 Imp ,(2)72 & (1)71 Dart Swingers
GarysMocars Legendary Dealer
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Re: ALUMINUM MASTER CYLINDER QUESTION???
[Re: moparrush]
#54413
02/28/08 11:42 PM
02/28/08 11:42 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,707
Florida
BDW
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,707
Florida
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Quote:
Well gooing up my master cylinder with RTV isn't exactly a bolt in deal, and secondly what a half [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] solution to the problem. I'd have to say be weary of this seller.
This does seem like a lame fix, bet he wouldn't write it up that way in the magazine.
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Re: ALUMINUM MASTER CYLINDER QUESTION???
[Re: BDW]
#54414
02/28/08 11:46 PM
02/28/08 11:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,009
Sac, CA
mopowers
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,009
Sac, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Well gooing up my master cylinder with RTV isn't exactly a bolt in deal, and secondly what a half [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] solution to the problem. I'd have to say be weary of this seller.
This does seem like a lame fix, bet he wouldn't write it up that way in the magazine.
You have got to be kidding me! Who the hell would trust their life to rtv?
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Re: ALUMINUM MASTER CYLINDER QUESTION???
[Re: moparrush]
#54415
02/29/08 12:28 AM
02/29/08 12:28 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 134
san antonio, Texas
moparrush
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 134
san antonio, Texas
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Okay Rick has emailed me back again, and after refusing the idea of RTV, the only thing he would offer is to just refund the whole thing, which is admirable, but again a word to the warning of the Moparts consumer. I had thought maybe, just maybe, I had a bummed out one that missed this critical machining. I guess they are all that way. I recommended to Rick to change his ad, because as you read earlier this is not a plug and play piece. Whatever you do, if you think that putting your life into RTV is the way to go, than my prayers go out to you. Just don't be misled and end up where I have had to go with this. I'm going to keep the Master Cylinder since I have allready swapped the pistons for the machined one, and fix my problem. Thanks again for the post.
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Re: ALUMINUM MASTER CYLINDER QUESTION???
[Re: moparrush]
#54416
02/29/08 12:42 AM
02/29/08 12:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 515
Dayton, Ohio
65cuda
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 515
Dayton, Ohio
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I just emailed him too. i ask if it was true that none of the MC had the recess? if he was going to refund the ones that people like me bought. this is what his ad says. page 2 a-body parts for sale.  "It has the machined recess in the primary piston so a manual-brake pushrod will work (the stock pushrod is fine, no mods required. I will supply the rubber pushrod retainer for $1 if requested when you send payment). This m/cyl also works fine with a power booster – again, no mods, 100% bolt-on."
65 Cuda 360,3.23 SG-13.97 @99.4, 88 D100, 2000 Kota Qcab, 71 Duster 416 11.84 @110., 73 Imp ,(2)72 & (1)71 Dart Swingers
GarysMocars Legendary Dealer
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Re: ALUMINUM MASTER CYLINDER QUESTION???
[Re: moparrush]
#54421
02/29/08 02:07 PM
02/29/08 02:07 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 134
san antonio, Texas
moparrush
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 134
san antonio, Texas
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Hi again All. I'm glad that Rick has jumped in on this. I'm posting a couple of pictures to clear up what I'm talking about. These are pics of the piston where the brake pedal pushrod goes into the piston. The piston that is mounted into the Gold anodized master cylinder is the one that came out of my autozone steel piece. I swapped them last night, and the other pic, which isn't mounted into the master cylinder, is the one that I pulled from Rick's piece. You can clearly see the machined recess which is to be used with the rubber retaining bushing. I'm not sure on power brake cars about the need of having this but I do know that manual brake cars required this. It's not just an early 60's thing either. This went into the 80's, and probably beyond, but I have no experience there, so I'd be assuming. If you were to put a rubber retainer on your rod, and pushed it into the non-machined piece than, as you can see, there is nothing there to hold it in place, and the machined piece goes down appoximately .250", or a 1/4 of an inch, and is machined back about a 1/16" of an inch to the bottom of the piston area where it rounds out for the end of the rod. That machined area is what is designed for the retainer is what I'm speaking of. I'll be emailing this to Rick as well, for his thoughts. I hope this helps clear up things.
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