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Re: Power to Ignition dies when key is turned to start
[Re: 71383beep]
#529688
11/20/09 01:23 PM
11/20/09 01:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477
Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Try swapping out the ECU for one that you know works.
The ECU does not get power when on IGN1 or start. Power is sent directly to the coil (brown wire from post 22 on FSM). When you let go of the key after the motor catches the key detents to IGN2 or Run which then sends power to the ballast resistor and in turn ECU (Blue wire from Post 23 on FSM). During start the ECU is not needed.
A classic ballast resitor or ECU problem is the car will START but not RUN. This problem is opposite to that which means something is wrong between the switch and the wiring directly to the coil or the switch itself.
I have an orange box that TRIES to start on run, but nothing on start.
My truck had a factory ECU that TRIED to start on run but not on start.
My buddy told me to swap out the ECUs, and I told him 100 times it couldn't be it.
I swapped out the ECU on my truck, it started right up.
I checked grounds, ballast resistors, wiring, voltage, coils, ignition switch, EVERYTHING.
It was the ECU swap that made my problems go away..
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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Re: Power to Ignition dies when key is turned to start
[Re: 71383beep]
#529689
11/20/09 01:28 PM
11/20/09 01:28 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
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Guys!!! he is talking about MSD BALLAST not MSD IGNITION!!!
brown and blue on diff sides of ballast doesn't have to be spliced together I REPEAT, DOESN'TY HAVE TO BE SPLICED TOGETHER... thats is just for MSD IGN MODULES, but not for the ballast with stock ECU modules
I state brown and blue wires on diff side ob ballast because on earliers, the wire going to coil is blue but with a brown splice on ballast coming from ign switch ( that changed since 70 with electronic regulator, getting brown to coil ). These also gets another blue on the other side of ballast.
All you have to check is if you have power on blue wire of ballast in RUN. and if you get power on brown wire of ballast in START.
BTW, ECU GETS POWER IN START, is not true doesn't get power in Start. What is true is ECU doesn't get power in Start directly coming from ign switch. It gets power in Start THROUIGHT teh ballast, what woks like a splice. Of course, reduced power, due the ballast effect, but enough to work.
The ballast making the splice function is what help you on check the correctnes wiring and ballast function if you get the brake light at cluster dimmed but still working when cranking
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Power to Ignition dies when key is turned to start
[Re: NachoRT74]
#529690
11/20/09 06:15 PM
11/20/09 06:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,180
Detroit, MI
CokeBottleKid
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,180
Detroit, MI
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Well looking over the diagram technically it shouldn't run in either case.... So obviously his wirings a bit different (aftermarket it sounds like). http://www.hemmings.com/images/mopar-5-wire-diagram.gifIn any case there's no reason to try to run the stupid MSD balast there's nothing wrong with the factory 4 prong ballast. Go get one, plug it in and tell us if there's any difference... Edit: wait that's a 5 wire ECU...well in any case ditch the stupid MSD ballast and run the 4 prong... then go check your ignition switch wiring.
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Re: Power to Ignition dies when key is turned to start
[Re: NachoRT74]
#529694
11/21/09 10:40 AM
11/21/09 10:40 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
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BTW, just posting somwthing more...
I'm having quite often a similar problem when engtine is warm. Engine doesn't fire up while cranking but when release the key to RUN. I'm sure I have my wiring all good and ballast. Thinking on some internal piece on ECU is damaged when hot, making hard to fire when cranking.
When cranking, the ECU is feeded through ballast, so maybe some condenser, resistor, transistor or Diode inside ECU is out of range and makes it hard to fire up when power is not high as posible from source. Being ECU is feeded from ballast when cranking and when warn resistance is higher, I have reasons to think on that
What I have discovered is that clicking the key back and forth couple of times, like getting on and off any device, makes maybe some excitation on the damaged device, and then makes fire up the engine normally.
will proove that soon, when I get my replacement of the Chromed Box in next days. Used but claimed never failed ( preffer that than a new without guarantee is perfect )
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Power to Ignition dies when key is turned to start
[Re: NachoRT74]
#529695
11/21/09 11:33 AM
11/21/09 11:33 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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jump the brown and blue like this & see if you're good.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Power to Ignition dies when key is turned to start
[Re: RapidRobert]
#529696
11/21/09 05:26 PM
11/21/09 05:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,270
Missouri
MY340
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,270
Missouri
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I had some weird starting & dieing problem right after I bought my Duster. Problem seemed to be intermittent so that wasn't fun either. Finally last thing I did was swap wires from top to bottom & vice versa on my 4 prong ballast resistor and viola' easy starts and no more hard starts and runs great.  I'm glad I had a wiring diagram to verify someone had it backwards.
1970 FE5 Duster 360/904/3.91's SOLD
1973 TB3 SpaceDuster 340/4spd/4.10's SOLD
Moparless for now but when the opportunity is right I'll have another one.
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Re: Power to Ignition dies when key is turned to start
[Re: NachoRT74]
#529697
11/21/09 05:44 PM
11/21/09 05:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477
Canada
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Quote:
BTW, just posting somwthing more...
I'm having quite often a similar problem when engtine is warm. Engine doesn't fire up while cranking but when release the key to RUN. I'm sure I have my wiring all good and ballast. Thinking on some internal piece on ECU is damaged when hot, making hard to fire when cranking.
When cranking, the ECU is feeded through ballast, so maybe some condenser, resistor, transistor or Diode inside ECU is out of range and makes it hard to fire up when power is not high as posible from source. Being ECU is feeded from ballast when cranking and when warn resistance is higher, I have reasons to think on that
What I have discovered is that clicking the key back and forth couple of times, like getting on and off any device, makes maybe some excitation on the damaged device, and then makes fire up the engine normally.
will proove that soon, when I get my replacement of the Chromed Box in next days. Used but claimed never failed ( preffer that than a new without guarantee is perfect )
EXACTLY what my orange box failures have been.
I had a brand new orange box, used it for maybe a week sparingly and it wouldn't restart hot.
It now sits under my seat, waiting for me to toss it out, cause it's basically useless.
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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That can't be right.
