Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
0.800 lift on EZ heads #51510
01/20/08 02:20 AM
01/20/08 02:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,945
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline OP
I Win
AndyF  Offline OP
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,945
Oregon
Well it hasn't been easy and I'm still not done. Basically the EZ heads don't really like this much lift! The standard valve setup gives you about 1.900 installed height which isn't quite enough to get 0.800 lift. I went with a +0.050 retainer and a +0.050 lock to get to 2.00 but that combination made the rocker arm rub on the retainer. With a standard lock and some fudging around it looks like I can get setup at 1.975. The PSI springs I'm using coil bind at 1.100 so I should have room to get close to 0.800 lift.

Here is a picture of the EZ heads with the cam at full lift. This cam has .830 gross lift so with lash it is about 0.800 net.

4123002-800_lift.jpg (627 downloads)
Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: AndyF] #51511
01/20/08 02:27 AM
01/20/08 02:27 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 617
Corvallis,OR
540CUDA Offline
super street
540CUDA  Offline
super street

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 617
Corvallis,OR


PRH 540,T-ram,-1's tagged and insured. 9.24et 146.13mph 1.30 60'3300#s
Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: 540CUDA] #51512
01/20/08 03:28 AM
01/20/08 03:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,904
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,904
U.S.S.A.
Quote:







Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: JohnRR] #51513
01/20/08 03:58 AM
01/20/08 03:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 633
NY/NJ
DV8 Offline
mopar addict
DV8  Offline
mopar addict

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 633
NY/NJ
Whoaaa boy! That is steep! What ratio rocker are you using?

~S~


"The function of man is to live, not exist..."
Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: AndyF] #51514
01/20/08 08:59 AM
01/20/08 08:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,020
Andrews,In. U.S.of A.
6
67_Satellite Offline
super stock
67_Satellite  Offline
super stock
6

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,020
Andrews,In. U.S.of A.
O.K., maybe I missed a previous post or something,but why so much lift? Is this just an exercise to find out how much is possible?

Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: AndyF] #51515
01/20/08 10:26 AM
01/20/08 10:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,074
Wichita Kansas
CH3NO2 Offline
super stock
CH3NO2  Offline
super stock

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,074
Wichita Kansas
What do they flow Andy?


Engine by DeTar http://www.kansasbadman.com
Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: DV8] #51516
01/20/08 12:23 PM
01/20/08 12:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,945
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline OP
I Win
AndyF  Offline OP
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,945
Oregon
Those are Jesel 1.70 ratio rocker arms. Here is a picture from the other side showing the pushrods. To clear this much lift we had to use a tapered pushrod. That still didn't clear so I had to set up the pushrods in a lathe and touch them up a little bit on the ends. Jesel makes a pushrod that clears but they cost about $30 each.

4123554-800_pushrod.jpg (419 downloads)
Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: AndyF] #51517
01/20/08 01:52 PM
01/20/08 01:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer Offline
master
Bob_Coomer  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
I run the Jesel 1.7's on my -1 heads, I dont remember the pushrod being that close to the rocker, I also run standard ball on ball pushrods (Non Tapered 3/8) from Manton. Andy, Do you think this would help clearance problem? Im running bout .790 gross lift before lash. The way the cup style adjuster srews set in the recess, it might give added pushrod clearance over the ball cup style pushrods.


Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: 67_Satellite] #51518
01/20/08 02:17 PM
01/20/08 02:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981
SE Michigan
TS3303 Offline
top fuel
TS3303  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981
SE Michigan
Quote:

O.K., maybe I missed a previous post or something,but why so much lift? Is this just an exercise to find out how much is possible?




is this an allout max horsepower headsup type engine?

IMO opening the valve that far past the useable range of the intake port is a waste of energy, reduces durability, increases wear on the valve train. not worth the extra 2-5hp that you might get. springs will have a very short life.

Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: AndyF] #51519
01/20/08 02:45 PM
01/20/08 02:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,949
land of 10,000______'s
B
BDS871Cuda Offline
top fuel
BDS871Cuda  Offline
top fuel
B

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,949
land of 10,000______'s
Quote:

Well it hasn't been easy and I'm still not done. Basically the EZ heads don't really like this much lift! The standard valve setup gives you about 1.900 installed height which isn't quite enough to get 0.800 lift. I went with a +0.050 retainer and a +0.050 lock to get to 2.00 but that combination made the rocker arm rub on the retainer. With a standard lock and some fudging around it looks like I can get setup at 1.975. The PSI springs I'm using coil bind at 1.100 so I should have room to get close to 0.800 lift.

Here is a picture of the EZ heads with the cam at full lift. This cam has .830 gross lift so with lash it is about 0.800 net.






Andy,
is this for a class that must use EZ heads?

What's the info on this?


Snap your neck, mega G-force launch, is all I want!
Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: Bob_Coomer] #51520
01/20/08 03:00 PM
01/20/08 03:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,945
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline OP
I Win
AndyF  Offline OP
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,945
Oregon
I'd think the ball end pushrod type would have more clearance but it has other problems. Jesel is promoting the cup end pushrod design these days so that is what we went with on this motor. It does make it harder to find pushrods though. Smith Bros did some custom ends for me on this motor.

Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: AndyF] #51521
01/26/08 09:10 PM
01/26/08 09:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,945
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline OP
I Win
AndyF  Offline OP
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,945
Oregon
I got the Jesel tool (made by DRC) so I can change the valve springs on the motor. I didn't think the short handle would have enough leverage for these 300 lb on the seat springs but it seems to work just fine. I might make some thin shims to protect the retainer when using this tool. I'm not too keen on marring up the retainers when they are under so much load.

4141292-spring_tool.jpg (333 downloads)
Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: AndyF] #51522
01/26/08 10:24 PM
01/26/08 10:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Andy, is there enough flow at .800 to make it worth
your while? I would have figured it stalled by then
Its surprising that the tool is strong enough to
pop the springs off, I have the same and on my
W-9 I have to pull 4 springs per head to get to
the head studs

Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: MR_P_BODY] #51523
01/27/08 06:47 PM
01/27/08 06:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,945
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline OP
I Win
AndyF  Offline OP
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,945
Oregon
Well even if the flow doesn't increase at .800 lift the port will see more area under the curve since the valve will be open higher and longer. We'll see what the dyno says.

Here is a shot showing a standard Ti retainer with a +0.050 lock. This gives me 1.985 installed height and the Jesel rocker arm clears. I might be able to run this setup since it is just a hair under the recommended 2.00 installed height. The springs coil bind at 1.100 so there would be 0.085 clearance at full lift.

4143499-installed.jpg (363 downloads)
Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: AndyF] #51524
01/27/08 06:58 PM
01/27/08 06:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
I think a lot of people forget that a running motor never sees the valve held open very long like a flow bench measure flow at. As Andy said when you lift the valve open more the motor has the opportunity to suck in more air than it does at a lower valve lift for the same duration Now when you introduce valve train components like the Jessel rocker system, single tapered pushrods and the exotic valve materials and super good valve springs why not bump the valves open more Isn't hopping up a motor basically about getting more air and fuel into the motor so it will make more power.(IE: heat via a controlled explosion)


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: Cab_Burge] #51525
01/27/08 07:23 PM
01/27/08 07:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981
SE Michigan
TS3303 Offline
top fuel
TS3303  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981
SE Michigan
yes you may get more area under the curve by over lifting the valve than a cam with less lift but the same duration and ramp angles. I'm no cam/head expert but I would rather do it with duration and ramp angles. size max lift to the head flow and duration/ramp angles to the size of the engine. The same head on a 440 vs a 540 will want very different grinds and custom ground cams are not that much more money. Theres more than one way to skin a cat as they say. Sounds like a good test scenario for a magazine article.

Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: AndyF] #51526
01/27/08 08:25 PM
01/27/08 08:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 970
Farmington Hills, Mich
Chuck@Best_Machine Offline
super stock
Chuck@Best_Machine  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 970
Farmington Hills, Mich
Quote; " We have also learned that low-lift flow (meaning anything below .400-inch valve lift in a Pro Stock engine with a .900-inch lift camshaft) is relatively unimportant. Think about the valve events in a racing engine: From the point when the valve first moves off its seat until it reaches mid-lift, the piston is either going the wrong way (that is, it is rising in the cylinder) or it's parked near TDC. The piston doesn't begin to move away from the combustion chamber with enough velocity to lower the pressure in the cylinder until the valve is nearly halfway open. Consequently it is high-lift flow that really matters in a drag racing engine."

David Reher, from Reher-Morrison

Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: TS3303] #51527
01/27/08 11:11 PM
01/27/08 11:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,945
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline OP
I Win
AndyF  Offline OP
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,945
Oregon
I last ran this motor on the dyno with a Comp MM305 flat tappet cam. Next time on the dyno it will have a roller with about the same seat duration but a lot more lift. We'll see if it likes it or not. One thing I know for sure, it costs a bunch of money to step up like this. I've spent about $3000 so far and I still don't have it running yet. So the HP/$ ratio isn't so hot.

Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: AndyF] #51528
01/28/08 12:22 AM
01/28/08 12:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981
SE Michigan
TS3303 Offline
top fuel
TS3303  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981
SE Michigan
That must be an old RM article, only .900 lift cam? David, Bruce, and Darrin have tested almost every combination and usually share most of their findings publicly. I would be interested to get his feedback on putting an extra .100 lift over max flow on one of their pro stock motors because you know they've tried every conceivable option. I could be wrong but I think theres more efficient ways to gain area on a head thats basically done at .700 than opening the valve .800+


Quote:

So the HP/$ ratio isn't so hot.



Andy when you figure this out please share

Re: 0.800 lift on EZ heads [Re: TS3303] #51529
01/28/08 02:06 AM
01/28/08 02:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,945
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline OP
I Win
AndyF  Offline OP
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,945
Oregon
Well PipeMax says I need .809 lift minimum to have peak hp at 6500 rpm and it recommends more lift than that. PipeMax does seem to like a lot of valve lift though and I don't fully understand the assumptions that went into that program. The engine builders that follow that program though seem to get pretty good results so I think it has to be treated with some respect.

Page 1 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1