Or know someone else who is? I've been looking for an affordable EFI to put on my 440. I really don't have the skills to put something together from scratch but I know it has been done. I was eyeing the lastest Hot Rod and saw the new FAST EFI. Sounds like what I'm looking for. 2200.00 is alot of coin though. Luckily, I have no other (ie wife) family members I have to answer too as far as money goes but it would take 45K miles to pay for itself if I got a 3 mpg raise in mileage and 27K miles if I got a 6 mpg raise in mileage. I also like the MASS EFI, again to much coin. I was looking at maybe a new 800 CFM AVS from Edelbrock also.Maybe if i wait the price will go down.

So there are really only 3 or 4 setups out there that would be a drop on and run type.
edelbrock which I think is closer to the 4k range
Mopar same deal
Fast as you saw,
and one place called budget efi or something like that that uses a chevy computer and sensors. Has a pre programmed eprom and they will flash it again for free based on what you actually run. About 500 less than fast but not as flexible.

Here is the thing. EFI is not necessarilly going to net you any better mileage. Just better drivablitly, cold starts and more consistant running in general.
So if you expect payback based on mileage, then I wouldn't do it.

I am currently trying to set one up based on the painless perfect managment system, and it will probably work out to be around 1200 when I am done, but it is no where near drivable yet.

I run the accel DFI system on my challenger and am very happy with it. Mine is a batch port system running a wide band closed loop. However, I wouldn't plan on saving money with it. A very well setup carb will get you good mileage and can make just as much power with a properly setup carb. The advantage of the efi is the way it can adapt to different situations. i.e. you can set your carb up for great economy, or you can set it up for great power, but its very very very hard to come up with a setup to do both. The efi can do both.

I believe the mileage gain in hot rod, and I think the FAST setup looks like a good product, however the mileage results they got are not what you should expect if you are currently running a well calibrated carb.

If mileage and driveability are your goals I would start with a overdrive tranny first, and then consider efi.

-Jon

Thanks for the great info. I already have the Gear Vendors OD and was able to get 15mpg on the highway with a TQ carb and the Vintage Air running at 75mph. I currently have my stock 383 carb on and I get about 10-12 and it works really well when warm but I think the engine could use more. The startability is lousy. At this point, I'm looking for better starting and more power, so maybe I should look into a really nice carburator. So I guess I will do some more research

If you're looking for $$$ paybacks based on fuel mileage savings, but yourself a wideband o2 meter and mount yourself an in-dash wideband gauge. That way you can see what your actual a/f ratio is and tune your carb for a good cruise ratio. These things make a bigger difference on mileage than just going to efi will. I run a thermoquad and I've got it tuned for a 16:1 a/f at cruise and after tinkering with the choke a bunch it starts up well and I can take off without having to sit there warming it up.

A wide band display that you can watch under different driving conditions is really helpful. You can tune a thermoquad for great gas mileage at cruise and tons of power at wide open throttle.

FWIW, a weblink that describes one person's successful effort to use the 1989-1993 Ford 5.0 V8 MAF system on a Dodge Magnum V8:

http://www.dodgetrucks.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=78783

And 2 more:
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=7247.0
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=28401.0

Also visit fordfuelinjection.com for a wealth of info. IMHO the EEC-IV was the most advanced EFI of its time. The TFI ignition module can be an Achille's heel but remote-mounting reportedly cures it (and Ford started doing that themselves).

The parts are super-cheap (usually) and some of it can still be bought new thru Ford.

Adapting the distributor/ignition module is the biggest hurdle. I believe I've found a cheap fix for that but haven't verified it yet.

Iam putting a RETROTEKSPEED efi kit on my CUDA. Not running yet but pretty straightforward install. Not cheap,but check their website at retrotekspeed.com.

I'm running a classic FAST system on mine. Not a drop in and go by any means, esp. if you want to see the better mpg. You need to be willing to invest the time and energy to understand what all the tables are doing on the high end systems to tune it razor sharp.
I would agree that a WBO2 with gauge/logging such as the LM-2 is a great start. I run one on my race car which is carb'ed.

We are using the Edelbrock Pro Flow. It was around $2600 but we did the higher HP set up. I think there was an up to 400hp set up at the time for a lot less.

That one in Hot Rod sounds like a sweet set up. Especailly the fact that it is self tuning to a certian extent.

No matter what you use, it will sure help out in reliability. We are still contemplating installing one in the "71 Vette just for that reason.

Here are few pix of when we installed it.

EFI Instal
A few more

A~

Here’s my perspective (and directed to nobody in particular).

EFI on a Mopar (or any old engine in an old car, actually) has to be a labor of love. You can’t justify it for the cost savings on fuel, you probably can’t jump into it for increased HP (at least that’s what the max HP carb guys say) and you sure can’t qualify it as a simple upgrade (no matter whose system it is).

You gotta have a personal drive to go EFI – either you are tired of carbs, you want the potential of better drivability, or just because you want to try something new and challenging. For me it’s been a combination of the above.
You have to research, sift thru internet info, and/or read a lot of books. And you better have a lot of spare time, or at least be able to focus on it until it’s finished. Also, you have to accept that you won’t be able to get advice from the people & places you’re used to visiting.

Over the years, I installed 3 items in my car that gave me my epiphany: a vacuum gauge, an MSD timing computer and a wideband. Those items helped me learn what my engine needed, when it needs it, and to fantasize how nice it would be to do it electronically/automatically instead of turning knobs and swapping rods and jets. The wideband was the real eye-opener on how AFs can bounce around on an engine that feels smooth. Between fuel and timing, I think there’s lots of area under the curve there for the taking.

Being that I was unwilling to drop the heavy money on a whole system, I’m 1/2-way down the Megasquirt route. It allows someone to use just about any hardware setup they want – TBI, dual TBI, port FI, Magnum beerbarrel, Eddy Pro-Flo XT, factory distributor, EDIS, etc.

There are also a *bunch* of vendors out there offering modification pieces for OEM systems – the options are there to anyone with the imagination and the Google to search for them.

x3. It's not a cheap alternative and regardless of what system or who you buy it from, you will need some sort of support. Be sure that the system you choose comes with the support that you are comfortable with. If you are reasonably knowledgeable and willing to read and learn, the Megasquirt is a compartively economical setup while some of the other systems are more "plug and play" you will still want some decent support. I went with the FAST XFI setup becasue of the support and the flexibility of the system. Here's a shot of the install. Has been running on the test stand but not quite ready for the road yet. We've done the cold start and idle tuning but still much more to go.

Went with the older Classic FAST system when most people didn't know what EFI was on an older car. Its been 11 years since my first system, and I still love it.....I did a lot of research and calling around before purchasing. I can tell you at the time I purchased mine, only a couple of guys in the USA knew how to go through it and work it out, and I was better than one of them at it. Since then I have done my own tuning.

[image][/image]

Will the FAST EFI work on a hemi with a shaker on it? Clearance, throttle body to air cleaner issues size wise?

I'm bouncing this topic around, but I guess that's inevitable.

I had mentioned I would be running a TBI unit at first, and here’s a huge advantage to that for a first-timer at EFI.

You’ll run new fuel lines, an electric pump, and IAT and CTS sensors. Hopefully your orig throttle cable and kickdown can be made to work with little fuss. You leave the orig fuel pump and feed line intact.

If you have any problems with the EFI and need to use the car (or just want to), you merely reinstall the carb and line, the fuel pump, reconnect the throttle and kickdown stuff, reconnect the orig fuel line to the tank, reconnect the distributor wiring to the module and you’re back on the road in a couple of hours at most. All the sensors can be left in palce (although a heated O2 sensor would still require heating to prevent it from clogging).

Port EFI would be similar but would require an intake manifold change also.

Even after that, if your EFI system has datalogging capability you can still record data from CTS, IAT and O2 sensors while you drive with your carb.