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Re: Hand or CNC Head Porting ??? #504058
10/23/09 10:10 AM
10/23/09 10:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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B G Racing  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
CNC programs make full porting quick and affordable.They are only as good as the programs imput.AS said they are repeatable and accurate.If the imput information is based on the results of hours of hand work as well as accurate adjustments for thin ares or areas of structural integrety.Problems of core shift can be eliminated(scrap casting) if realy bad and a little hand work if not.The program should also be tailored to the build.Don't use a 280 when you need a 345.AS for the machine lines left,they can have a benifit to performance,like creating a reversion effect in a runner or a directional effect in a chamber on natural aspirated engines.On pressurized engines the smooth finished is desired.Most CNC programs can be run in a few hours and hand port can be 60 hours+-.Welcome to the age of techonolgy.

Re: Hand or CNC Head Porting ??? [Re: B G Racing] #504059
10/23/09 11:10 AM
10/23/09 11:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,288
Oregon
sg66mopar Offline OP
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sg66mopar  Offline OP
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Oregon
Hey guys, I didn't mean to start a war here. Just wanted to go a couple seconds faster. I'm looking for all the flow I can get from the 440-1s. The motor's 572 inches with over 14-1 compression and with my new cam and rocker combo, around .780 lift. I was hoping to go with B1 MCs but just lost a big chunk of my income so now I need all I can get from my old heads without breaking the bank. I run Super Gas @ around 146 mph and brackets at around 8.90 and 150 mph, but wanted to see something like 8.60 - 8.70 at 155 or more and SG @ over 150.

Re: Hand or CNC Head Porting ??? [Re: sg66mopar] #504060
10/23/09 11:21 AM
10/23/09 11:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
master
B G Racing  Offline
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Eighty Four, PA
Quote:

Hey guys, I didn't mean to start a war here. Just wanted to go a couple seconds faster. I'm looking for all the flow I can get from the 440-1s. The motor's 572 inches with over 14-1 compression and with my new cam and rocker combo, around .780 lift. I was hoping to go with B1 MCs but just lost a big chunk of my income so now I need all I can get from my old heads without breaking the bank. I run Super Gas @ around 146 mph and brackets at around 8.90 and 150 mph, but wanted to see something like 8.60 - 8.70 at 155 or more and SG @ over 150.


Dick,no war here.You are maxed out with the 440-1s on a 572" and you would benifit to max them out with the 345cc CNC.The best head combo would be Indy -13 or B-1s or something bigger with a flow of over 400cfm.

Re: Hand or CNC Head Porting ??? [Re: sg66mopar] #504061
10/23/09 11:22 AM
10/23/09 11:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,106
Quebec, Canada
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Diablo Offline
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Quebec, Canada
Jeff at modern would be would best bet i think. Good pricing and wonderful work. He's worked on one of my sets of heads and i was happy with the quality and price!

Re: Hand or CNC Head Porting ??? [Re: B G Racing] #504062
10/23/09 11:27 AM
10/23/09 11:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline
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hemi-itis  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
Quote:

CNC programs make full porting quick and affordable.They are only as good as the programs imput.AS said they are repeatable and accurate.If the imput information is based on the results of hours of hand work as well as accurate adjustments for thin ares or areas of structural integrety.Problems of core shift can be eliminated(scrap casting) if realy bad and a little hand work if not.The program should also be tailored to the build.Don't use a 280 when you need a 345.AS for the machine lines left,they can have a benifit to performance,like creating a reversion effect in a runner or a directional effect in a chamber on natural aspirated engines.On pressurized engines the smooth finished is desired.Most CNC programs can be run in a few hours and hand port can be 60 hours+-.Welcome to the age of techonolgy.


That is what I have been trying to say.Once you have the head port maximized and it is programmed,is any hand dressing needed??


HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: Hand or CNC Head Porting ??? [Re: hemi-itis] #504063
10/23/09 11:33 AM
10/23/09 11:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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B G Racing  Offline
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Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA

Other than smoothing and blending nothing,even if we blend and smooth we don't polish on a N/A engine.

Re: Hand or CNC Head Porting ??? [Re: hemi-itis] #504064
10/23/09 02:22 PM
10/23/09 02:22 PM

A
Anonymous
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A



Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

isn't it proven by jeff at modern that his cnc program on 906 heads outperformed a hand porter on a FAST build getting a 440-6 RR into the 10 second zone while the hand porter was only able to get the A12 RR to low 11's.
i believe thats proof enough that CNC'ing one of these heads works better then hand porting.
if i were to do it again CNC'ing is my choice,hands down.




A 10sec pass so far has only happened ONCE , Ed had a killer 60ft and has not been able to duplicate it since .

You should stick to what you know ... BBQ'ing skirt steaks ...


John,you should stick to chasing ambulance casualties.You speak with SUCH authority like you are running in the 14's.Correct me if I'm wrong but the top F.A.S.T guys are all going to MCH.And NO!You can't have a peice of steak




AL, i made extra steak for
JOHNAHAH at mopars at the valley but he didnt come by to say hi, dont you remember?
he knows exactly who we are but we dont know who he is!
wish JOHNAHAH introduced himself to us.i wonder why. maybe next year,oh well

Re: Hand or CNC Head Porting ??? #504065
10/23/09 02:31 PM
10/23/09 02:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,288
Oregon
sg66mopar Offline OP
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sg66mopar  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,288
Oregon
Yeah I know the motor's too big for the heads I have. Maybe somebody here has a good set of B1 MCs they'd like to "donate" to my cause.

Re: Hand or CNC Head Porting ??? [Re: sg66mopar] #504066
10/23/09 03:05 PM
10/23/09 03:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,288
Oregon
sg66mopar Offline OP
pro stock
sg66mopar  Offline OP
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Oregon

Re: Hand or CNC Head Porting ??? [Re: sg66mopar] #504067
10/23/09 06:02 PM
10/23/09 06:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,288
Oregon
sg66mopar Offline OP
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sg66mopar  Offline OP
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Oregon
Well, you can't blame a guy for trying. Guess I'll need to look for a second job.

Re: Hand or CNC Head Porting ??? [Re: sg66mopar] #504068
10/23/09 06:13 PM
10/23/09 06:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer Offline
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Rock Springs
The engine will run good, and you wont need to spin the mill 8K either. 7000-7300 shift points and the engine will live a good while.

Hey TS3303
Yes the car was a 225 inch heavy hard tail converted dirt chassis. It was heavy, and ugly..but mainly unsafe.
The car had 3/4 ton disc brake calipers and Jeep rotors. LOL..High tech stuff.
But it made me feel good when I would be the fastest or next to the fastest cars at the track.
But they had M&M slip tube chassis and Undercover 4 link chassis, with complete Mark Williams rear parts. 600" 900-1000 hp Big Chevy's with Sheet metal intakes and twin Alky Dominators etc...

LOL
My junk had the single small 4150 cast Indy intake with a 4" toilet.

SG66mopar
That engine will run good. No need to spin the motor to 8K either... 7200-7300 shift points and it will live a long time.

What rocker gear are you going to run?


[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: Hand or CNC Head Porting ??? [Re: sg66mopar] #504069
10/23/09 06:14 PM
10/23/09 06:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
I have yet to run them, but got a solid 5% flow improvement by going to a 2.300 intake valve from 2.25, and didn't lose much exhaust flow when they cut the exhaust to 1.78 to make it work. Lets hope the $970 was worth it! Here is a flow sheet,,,,

Last edited by gregsdart; 10/23/09 06:15 PM.

8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Hand or CNC Head Porting ??? [Re: Bob_Coomer] #504070
10/23/09 07:24 PM
10/23/09 07:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981
SE Michigan
TS3303 Offline
top fuel
TS3303  Offline
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SE Michigan
Quote:

The engine will run good, and you wont need to spin the mill 8K either. 7000-7300 shift points and the engine will live a good while.

LOL
My junk had the single small 4150 cast Indy intake with a 4" toilet.

SG66mopar
That engine will run good. No need to spin the motor to 8K either... 7200-7300 shift points and it will live a long time.

What rocker gear are you going to run?




I agree with the rpm's. I think that was my next hurdle in trying to run 7's with a 572" -1 motor. The 4.56 gear and 7600 rpms at the stripe were just making the head issue worse. Wanted to try 4.30's but they are always back ordered for a D60. Tall gears and let that beast grunt, try to keep it under 7200.

Re: Hand or CNC Head Porting ??? [Re: TS3303] #504071
10/23/09 09:05 PM
10/23/09 09:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,288
Oregon
sg66mopar Offline OP
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Oregon
If I can get the 1.7 rockers from T&D that's the route I'll go. Right now I have the Indy 1.5s and 1 broken rocken rocker in 200 passes is too much in my opinion. The rear is 4.10 because, as TS3303 said, the 4.30s are just not out there. The motor makes plenty of torque but needs to move a little more air on the top. It's only spinning 6800 on the top end at 150.

Re: Hand or CNC Head Porting ??? [Re: sg66mopar] #504072
10/23/09 09:07 PM
10/23/09 09:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,288
Oregon
sg66mopar Offline OP
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By the way guys, THANKS for all the great info!!

Re: Hand or CNC Head Porting ??? [Re: TS3303] #504073
10/23/09 09:11 PM
10/23/09 09:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,813
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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MI, usa
Jim has the right idea. Tighten up the converter,lower the RPM and let it grunt. Obviously not as good as a better set of heads. You've got to work with what you have. We'll see, I have Jims old short block that Im going to run in N/SS. At 3300-3400lbs you need all the torque you can get. I have a set of hand ported heads by MCH who also did Jims. Not sure which set was better. I'm running more compression,slightly longer cam with wider lobe centers,not to mention the Indy crossram and carters which certainly is not as good.
There is light at the end of the tunnel though. Some of these 572 combos have run pretty well. Nick Wilsons is impressive running SR heads,9.30s@3700+ lbs
Doug

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