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Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end ?'s [Re: dangina] #47201
02/06/09 06:54 PM
02/06/09 06:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,490
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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Lethbridge, AB, Canada
Quote:

dear dqhemi - do you have any issues with bump steer? can you drop in a new 5.7 or 6.1 hemi or is your system meant for small/big block engines? why did you go with a 3-link rear instead of a 5-link(2 upper links and 2 lower links plus a panhard rod?)and why did you use rubber on the panhard instead of a teflon rod end or ball bearing? thanks!...





bump this thread back from the dead!

Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end ?'s [Re: dangina] #47202
02/06/09 07:42 PM
02/06/09 07:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,577
Long Island, NY USA
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BergmanAutoCraft Offline
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The level II can be configured with the new hemi, old hemi, big block, and we have done a couple small blocks too. The 3 link was used as it is a solid, reliable and cost effective way to do the job. It offers plently of adjustability for varying conditions. The bushings for the panhard are urethane.

Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end ?'s [Re: BergmanAutoCraft] #47203
02/15/09 07:56 PM
02/15/09 07:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,117
Haslett, MI
7DRRunner Offline
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lots of good thoughts, reading

thanks


"Good luck on your project." 1970 Road Runner "Accellertii Incredibus"
Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end ?'s [Re: 7DRRunner] #47204
08/29/09 09:43 PM
08/29/09 09:43 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
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A



Newbie on this board as far as posting goes, but not so new to the hobby, especially the protouring end of things.
Some know me from the 65 GTO I built three years ago. Well, I have always been a third gen charger lover, especially a 72 SE so I bought one in 07. After researching the net on modern suspensions and looking at all of them, I went with the XV Stage II set up. Yes, is was more expensive, no noone had ever actually put one under a third gen b body yet, so I was somewhat of a test mule. The front parts were boltin as described in the instructions, perfect fit. The rear, not so much. No fault of John and crew, we knew going in there were some differences and they worked with us getting all that worked out. The main PITA was we had to shorten the gas tank by about three inches as there was just not enough real estate there for the panhard bar and OEM tank. A notch here and tweak there and we had it in. Body stiffener kit was a must too, as it was great to use their engineering rather than our trail and error.
For those wondering, this build was a back yard build, but not for the faint of heart and it was nice to have a buddy helping that works at a machine shop. We have made some custom pieces, but nothing anyone with those skills could not duplicate. This car will be shot by Hot Rod for an upcoming feature in two weeks. We are driving it to SEMA in October, it will be in the show, then it will do the Optima Battery Challenge and then drive it back home-Pigeon Forge, Tn. This will be a 4000 mile trip. I will post more pictures elsewhere on the car, but here are a couple shots of the front and rear setup.



Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end ?'s #47205
08/29/09 10:56 PM
08/29/09 10:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,153
Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
I Live Here
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Mass
Looking forward to seeing and hearing more about your 3rd gen XV B body build, Bill,......keep us posted



Mike

5449719-0000a.jpg (127 downloads)
Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end ?'s [Re: DAYCLONA] #47206
10/22/09 11:41 PM
10/22/09 11:41 PM
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Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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PHJ426 Offline OP
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Anyone want to revive this thread.. I need to get my old ratty Chally back on the road and into the 21st century. Any ideas on how to make it handle and stop w/o dropping 30K on this car?

Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end ?'s [Re: PHJ426] #47207
10/22/09 11:59 PM
10/22/09 11:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,325
Orlando Fl
Dos Snails Offline
pro stock
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Orlando Fl
Wow, has it been two years already... still waiting that cheaper level II suspension.

Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end ?'s [Re: PHJ426] #47208
10/23/09 12:18 AM
10/23/09 12:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
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Quote:

Anyone want to revive this thread.. I need to get my old ratty Chally back on the road and into the 21st century. Any ideas on how to make it handle and stop w/o dropping 30K on this car?




You want to built an EFI'd twin turbo motor and you are worried about money??

I thought you were building a big block 72 Road Runner. What happened with that?

What is the budget on this Challenger suspension upgrade? What level of stuff will you be doing with the car. Autocross, some track days, lots of track days??

Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end ?'s [Re: autoxcuda] #47209
10/23/09 05:07 AM
10/23/09 05:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,599
San Jose,CA
migsBIG Offline
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San Jose,CA
Quote:

Quote:

Anyone want to revive this thread.. I need to get my old ratty Chally back on the road and into the 21st century. Any ideas on how to make it handle and stop w/o dropping 30K on this car?




You want to built an EFI'd twin turbo motor and you are worried about money??

I thought you were building a big block 72 Road Runner. What happened with that?

What is the budget on this Challenger suspension upgrade? What level of stuff will you be doing with the car. Autocross, some track days, lots of track days??




Steve raises a good point there. Lots of things you can do with stock style parts befor custom mods. Racer or Daily driver? I'll be starting with my 70' challenger and had over a year to think how I want to assemble it. If your looking for something kinda exotic, try a combination of stuff. I'm going with lots of stock and custom stuff, mostly parts I can bolt on or reinforce. If you want good handeling in the rear for it, check out the Magnum Force pro-Link Rear suspension. They only make it for the e-body, but they can buld special orders. I'll considering it for my car as you can do just soo much with leaf springs and swaybar.

Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end ?'s [Re: migsBIG] #47210
10/23/09 07:36 AM
10/23/09 07:36 AM
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Long Island, NY USA
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A more competitively price level II is in the works. However, our level I will exceed most people's driving ability for those who want bolt on pieces.

Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end ?'s #47211
10/23/09 10:15 AM
10/23/09 10:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
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jcc Offline
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How stout is that rear rear upper coilover crossmember? Is it reinforced by anything not seen in the pic?


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end ?'s [Re: jcc] #47212
10/23/09 10:47 AM
10/23/09 10:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
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Long Island, NY USA
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If its not it should be. We give plates to reinforce the center. 4 post test revealed the need for reinforcement due to flexing.

Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end ?'s [Re: migsBIG] #47213
10/23/09 11:31 AM
10/23/09 11:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,024
In the twisties
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RokketRide Offline
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In the twisties
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Anyone want to revive this thread.. I need to get my old ratty Chally back on the road and into the 21st century. Any ideas on how to make it handle and stop w/o dropping 30K on this car?




You want to built an EFI'd twin turbo motor and you are worried about money??

I thought you were building a big block 72 Road Runner. What happened with that?

What is the budget on this Challenger suspension upgrade? What level of stuff will you be doing with the car. Autocross, some track days, lots of track days??




Steve raises a good point there. Lots of things you can do with stock style parts befor custom mods. Racer or Daily driver? I'll be starting with my 70' challenger and had over a year to think how I want to assemble it. If your looking for something kinda exotic, try a combination of stuff. I'm going with lots of stock and custom stuff, mostly parts I can bolt on or reinforce. If you want good handeling in the rear for it, check out the Magnum Force pro-Link Rear suspension. They only make it for the e-body, but they can buld special orders. I'll considering it for my car as you can do just soo much with leaf springs and swaybar.



Have you looked into the RMS rear kit? Might be a little more bolt-on and its not special order for other bodies.

Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end ?'s [Re: migsBIG] #47214
10/23/09 12:27 PM
10/23/09 12:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
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Quote:

I'll considering it for my car as you can do just soo much with leaf springs and swaybar.




What are you trying to "do"?

A leaf spring rear is plenty capable. We run a circle track class that has very strict rules, identical crate motors, and very similar chassis. Last year they allowed linked rear suspensions. Leaf spring cars have still won races and are very competitive. A leaf spring car won the most races this year, but didn't win the championship. I'd say that pretty close. We actually run linked and leaf car out of the same race team.

The advantage we see with the linked is it's easier to make fine high level adjustments. But driving the linked car is not as forgiving as the leaf car at the edge of out of control. The linked is more precise, over time and development it will overcome the leaf cars.

Point is, the leaf are pretty close. You'd have to be racing or on a track to see the difference in stop watch. They are easier to tune in regards to spring rate changes, ride height changes, pinion angle, rear steer, wheelbase, anti squat, roll center.

Question is?: do you have the tools, experience, or need to make those modifications after you've got your car together? Changing the coil spring rate and ride height would be what most people are capable of.

If you've got a build with a whole fabricated front clip/k-member, I can see the links. There's got to be a whole lot done to the rest of the suspension systems to be at the level of seeing the advantage of a rear link. Tire, frame stiffening, front suspension, shocks... I think that is way XV sells it as a companion to their stage II setup.

Also if you are building a slammed car with air bags, the links are needed.

Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/23/09 12:36 PM.
Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end ?'s [Re: autoxcuda] #47215
10/24/09 12:08 AM
10/24/09 12:08 AM
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Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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PHJ426 Offline OP
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Quote"You want to built an EFI'd twin turbo motor and yoI thought you were building a big block 72 Road Runner. What happened with that?
u are worried about money?? end quote

Economy tanked the Bird is soon to fly the nest. Cutting back to one hot rod and not going to be spending a ton of dough on it for now.

Quote"What is the budget on this Challenger suspension upgrade? What level of stuff will you be doing with the car. Autocross, some track days, lots of track days?? end quote"

The Challenger will be getting the 508 pump gasser with the Stage heads. Looks like this will get either the six pack I have for now. Currently the car is an old ratty bracket car.

I will need to tighten the suspension up and get rid of the super stock rear springs for some better handeling and to get the rearend back to earth.

Budget wise I really like that stuff Im seeing at Hotchkis on the other thread and like the way that Emax Chally runs out. With a 500 cube torque monster it would be a blast........

But budget is a budget and I dont want to build a track only car this is the one and only hot rod in the garage so it has to cruise, eventually look good, not handle like a pig and get some 1/4 mile and a track day here and there.

Ill be getting the plates to stiffen up the LCA's add a front bar like the H 1 1/4 bar. Not sure if anything more then a 1.00" T bar will be too stiff for the street or not so that will require some research.

I have a Dana 60 in the rear will that rear sway bar clear the center of the Dana 60 or no?

Brakes are stocker discs in front and drums out back. With a big block this will be 3800 to 3900 all day long. So Ill need some better than stock brakes to make it all work well. Maybe a set of Cobra discs front and rear?

Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end ?'s [Re: PHJ426] #47216
10/24/09 01:40 AM
10/24/09 01:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
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Quote:

But budget is a budget and I dont want to build a track only car this is the one and only hot rod in the garage so it has to cruise, eventually look good, not handle like a pig and get some 1/4 mile and a track day here and there.

Ill be getting the plates to stiffen up the LCA's add a front bar like the H 1 1/4 bar. Not sure if anything more then a 1.00" T bar will be too stiff for the street or not so that will require some research.




1.00" will not be too stiff on an E-body with a big block. I run .99 195 lb/in rate bars in an small block A-body. For me, I probably should have went stiffer but I have put a good 40,000 miles on those T-bars. It was my only driving car for 10 years.

E/B body rates are lower per given diameter and a 1.00" bar in them is 175 lb/in. IMHO, for you I'd choose between 1.00" and 1.06".

Quote:

I have a Dana 60 in the rear will that rear sway bar clear the center of the Dana 60 or no?




The Hotchkis and Hellwig bars run under the center section. They could be an issue with a Dana. Firm Feel rear bars are a copy of stock E-body rear bars. So do stock E-body rear sway bars work with a Dana? I know I've heard people trying it. Can't remember the outcome.

Quote:

Brakes are stocker discs in front and drums out back. With a big block this will be 3800 to 3900 all day long. So Ill need some better than stock brakes to make it all work well. Maybe a set of Cobra discs front and rear?




You could run the Dr Diff setup that allows you to use 70-72 disk spindle with the 12.75 diameter facotry rotors (~$50 ea) that are 1" larger diameter. Then you would have to locate some large diameter caliper adapters (~$75/pr).

If you only want to go out in the track here and there the 12" rotors should be fine to start out with on budget. $20 at the hardware store for ducting and zip ties will do wonders for your brakes at the track.

All that stuff doesn't do much without grip. And grip is tires. Look for 245 wide minimum up front. 17x9" with 275/40/17 will work with 5.25 backspacing up front. A 275/40 isn't a really short sidewall. If you run 18" rims you'll have to run a narrower sidewall so you can fit in the wheelwell. And the tire and rim will weigh more than a 17" setup.

Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end [Re: 2fast4yourBrain] #47217
10/24/09 08:58 AM
10/24/09 08:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,323
NY NY
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340duster340 Offline
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Quote:


For backyard builders, just beef up the factory system.






Agreed

unless you live next to a skid pad, than just keep the stock suspension geometry and upgrade it.

IMO, the stock suspension is really good when rebuilt right and adjusted correctly.

heck, thats what they ran in NASCAR and TransAM back in the day...


check out firmfeel.com ... i think its the best value for a street driver.


1966 Dart GT ...down to only 1 mopar for the first time in 15 years!
Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end [Re: 340duster340] #47218
11/07/09 12:03 PM
11/07/09 12:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,074
Manitoba Canada
67autocross Offline
super stock
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Sounds like XV are working on a A body level II set up, this could be a nice option.


A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end [Re: 67autocross] #47219
11/13/09 07:39 PM
11/13/09 07:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,325
Orlando Fl
Dos Snails Offline
pro stock
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Posts: 1,325
Orlando Fl
Cool XV did it! http://www.xvmotorsports.com/media/LIIProdDoc2009.pdf A cheaper level II. See I knew that it could be done! ( I still only want the K member & Upper arm though)

Re: Alterkation, XV Level II and MagnumForce front end [Re: Dos Snails] #47220
02/16/10 02:22 PM
02/16/10 02:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 375
Canada
DmanSRT71 Offline
enthusiast
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Posts: 375
Canada
Any updates if the frame is available by itself?

Quote:

Cool XV did it! http://www.xvmotorsports.com/media/LIIProdDoc2009.pdf A cheaper level II. See I knew that it could be done! ( I still only want the K member & Upper arm though)




69 Road Runner 383/auto/N96 71 Demon 340/4 spd Would like to find a rust free Cuda body.
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