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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: JF_Moparts]
#46385
10/16/07 06:30 AM
10/16/07 06:30 AM
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Just got back from the Pocono Raceway (PA) road coarse event. I can't believe the huge difference the XV suspension upgrade made to my cars handling over stock. Car rides nice, no body roll, a real pleasure to drive!! Even in the rain. 
The car looks great!!
I'm curious - what was your previous "stock" suspension? Was it still set up as per 1970 factory specs?
My 1971 Satellite Sebring uses 205 lb/inch torsion bars, polygraphite everywhere, fast ratio pitman/idler, 1 1/8" sway bar, KYB's, Rick E's disk brake swap, and a firm feel steering box. I'm considering upgrading to XV, but I'm wondering what kind of improvement I can expect given my current setup.
Thanks.
- Jim
The suspension was all stock. I had replaced all bushings with OE and replaced every moving part in the FE back in the day.
I can't say how your Sebring will ride and handle. But my T/A handles like a slot car now. I would say ride in a stock E Body then ride in a XV suspension car. Your eyes will open up!!!
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: JF_Moparts]
#46386
10/16/07 07:07 AM
10/16/07 07:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
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You'll notice a big difference. Your t-bars will be going up to around the 300 lb/inch rate, you would be adding a rear sway bar with the softer rear spring rate, and most significantly,correctly valved shocks to match it all.
IMO, running 15" tires isn't the big detriment a lot of people think it is either. Granted, the choices are thinning out, considerably, but there are still decent gripping, speed rated rubber out there for 15" wheels.
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: dwbiggs]
#46388
10/16/07 08:55 AM
10/16/07 08:55 AM
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255/60 up front...does the suspension mods allow you to run such a wide tire up front?
Fitting 255's on the front is more a function of getting the correct back spacing.
Our Level I Suspension doesn't change anything to affect what size rubber you can run. It's all bolt on, and for a car like John's, that's a rare one, 100% reversible. So down the road if you want to put it back to factory you can.
Here's a Challenger we installed a Level I on and bagged and tagged everything for the owner, so the original pieces stay with the car, but he can use it in ways he never would be able to w/ the stock setup.
Here's another we did that's running 15's on steelies we set up for him:
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: TC@HP2]
#46390
10/16/07 11:08 AM
10/16/07 11:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,453
So Cal
autoxcuda
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Quote:
...
IMO, running 15" tires isn't the big detriment a lot of people think it is either. Granted, the choices are thinning out, considerably, but there are still decent gripping, speed rated rubber out there for 15" wheels.
It's getting real thin. I don't think you can get Dunlop SP 245/50/15 ZR's any more. I think there is some other ZR stuff, but it's pretty pricey.
Seems like your Radial T/A, Firestone Indy, Eagle ST/GT, Qualifer GT... is all that's left 
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: dwbiggs]
#46392
10/16/07 11:15 AM
10/16/07 11:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
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There is a firewall to shock tower brace that is part of the reinforcement package for both level 1 and 2, but it is high enough up to not be an interference item with any size tire.
Speaking of tires, going to 17s is only going to net a small increase in performance compared to a good 15" tire. You'll probably see a better increase with the lighter weight 17" wheels than actual road holding power from 17" rubber. Light weight 15" wheels with sticky rubber is still a good match for a 17.
The biggest increase in driving performance comes from the suspension system. Look at it this way, changing a good 15" set up to a 17" set up is much like changing a 2.5" exhaust to a 3" exhaust. You'll gain some performance, but not a huge amount for the amount of cash outlay of the change. Upgrading your entire suspension system is like swapping out a low compression smog motor for a purpose built performance mill, the difference is huge.
Good gripping, 15" tires are available from Goodyear, Hoosier, Avon, American Racer, Towel City, and Mickey Thompson. Speed ratings are still available in S, T, H, V, and Z depending on vendor and size. Pricing is, unfortunatly, getting up there and is comparable to cheap 17" tires now.
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: autoxcuda]
#46393
10/16/07 11:17 AM
10/16/07 11:17 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
AlexP
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Quote:
Quote:
...
IMO, running 15" tires isn't the big detriment a lot of people think it is either. Granted, the choices are thinning out, considerably, but there are still decent gripping, speed rated rubber out there for 15" wheels.
It's getting real thin. I don't think you can get Dunlop SP 245/50/15 ZR's any more. I think there is some other ZR stuff, but it's pretty pricey.
Seems like your Radial T/A, Firestone Indy, Eagle ST/GT, Qualifer GT... is all that's left
Tirerack says that you can still get the Dunlops. At least online it says that...who knows about real stock.
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: dwbiggs]
#46394
10/16/07 11:26 AM
10/16/07 11:26 AM
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Thought reinforcement pieces had to be welded in to the firewall or something like that...or is that level 2?
John's T/A doesn't have any of the chassis stiffening pieces. Adding those stiffens up the car obviously, but isn't a requirement for the Level I Suspension.
On Level II Suspension we consider chassis stiffening a requirement since it changes the loads from the factory locations.
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: Prince_Valiant]
#46395
10/16/07 11:28 AM
10/16/07 11:28 AM
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So the level one doesn't include using frame connectors and increasing the rigidity of the chasis in other ways? What if I had frame connectors?
I'm impressed with the testimonials...
great looking car too 
Level I doesn't require any chassis stiffening. However, any stiffening you have or add, will only allow the suspension to work better.
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: TC@HP2]
#46396
10/16/07 12:06 PM
10/16/07 12:06 PM
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Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
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Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
There is a firewall to shock tower brace that is part of the reinforcement package for both level 1 and 2, but it is high enough up to not be an interference item with any size tire.
Speaking of tires, going to 17s is only going to net a small increase in performance compared to a good 15" tire. You'll probably see a better increase with the lighter weight 17" wheels than actual road holding power from 17" rubber. Light weight 15" wheels with sticky rubber is still a good match for a 17.
The biggest increase in driving performance comes from the suspension system. Look at it this way, changing a good 15" set up to a 17" set up is much like changing a 2.5" exhaust to a 3" exhaust. You'll gain some performance, but not a huge amount for the amount of cash outlay of the change. Upgrading your entire suspension system is like swapping out a low compression smog motor for a purpose built performance mill, the difference is huge.
Good gripping, 15" tires are available from Goodyear, Hoosier, Avon, American Racer, Towel City, and Mickey Thompson. Speed ratings are still available in S, T, H, V, and Z depending on vendor and size. Pricing is, unfortunatly, getting up there and is comparable to cheap 17" tires now.
Tony- are those 15" tires you speak of in the 26-28" height range, or are they like a 245/50, which is 24.6" tall?
that's the nice thing with 17's and 18's is you can get some pretty sticky tires in heights tall enough not to make our cars look like they're riding on skateboard wheels. while not a max performance tire, but an all season performance tire, a 255/50R17 BFG KDWS or Bridgestone RE750 have a lot more grip due to tread compounds (and sidewall stiffness) than most commonly available 27" tall, 15" tires (say a 225/70, or even a 255/60).
now with the mustang GT's base tire being a 235/55R17, you're starting to see a lot of offering of max performance tires in that size.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: patrick]
#46398
10/16/07 01:50 PM
10/16/07 01:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
Tony- are those 15" tires you speak of in the 26-28" height range, or are they like a 245/50, which is 24.6" tall?
Check out the M/T sizes. These start at 24" tall and go up from there. They are using the same construction, tread design, and tire compounds from 15" to 20" diameters. They designed these with stiff sidewalls to go after the pro-touring market and the larger sizes have been used on several high end build ups recently. These are readily available from Summit, Jegs, or whomever and could easily become the de-facto street handling tire as more manufacturers scale back 15" tire production.
p# size diameter
6651 24X5.00R15LT 24.0
6652 26X6.00R15LT 26.0
6650 26X8.00R15LT 26.1
6653 26X10.00R15LT 26.1
6654 26X12.00R15LT 26.1
6640 28X10.00R15LT 28.0
6641 28X12.00R15LT 28.0
6642 29X15.00R15LT 29.0
6655 29X18.00R15LT 29.0
6643 30X12.00R15LT 30.0
6644 31X16.00R15LT 31.0
6656 31X18.00R15LT 31.0
6657 33X22.00R15LT 32.0
Want to get really glued down? Look at tires for Cobra kit cars. They are large, wide, and sticky in d.o.t. and race compounds.
http://www.rogerkrausracing.com/Cobra/
Another variation on the theme in d.o.t. approved racing tires for handling applications;
http://www.americanraceronline.com/racing-tires/passenger.html
and here
http://www.towelcityracingtires.com/
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: AndyF]
#46400
10/16/07 10:42 PM
10/16/07 10:42 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,464
Back in NJ....
EWJ
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Thanks 60K T/A for your 'real world' feedback.
Ed
EastCoast Land Yacht Assoc.
1967 Newport Conv: 440/4 speed
1969 GTX: 440/4 speed, TX9/TX9, A34, N96
1970 Super Bee: 383/4 speed, B5/B7
1970 Coronet RT: 440/4 speed, A34, N96
1970 Coronet RT: 440/auto, A36, N96
1970 Road Runner convertible: 383/4 speed TX9/D6XW
1970 GTX: 440+6/727, A32, N96
2001 Dodge 2500 HO CTD, 6 speed, 4x4 quad cab long bed
"The early bird may get the worm, but the 2nd mouse gets the cheese".
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: pro451bee]
#46403
10/17/07 12:11 PM
10/17/07 12:11 PM
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Hey DQHEMI , what front sway bar solution , stage 1 , do you offer for 69 down B body . All I could see on your site is 70 up style with the notched K frame . 
We have bars for the earlier B's as well.
No pics handy.
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Re: XV Level 1 Suspension
[Re: mopork]
#46404
10/17/07 12:22 PM
10/17/07 12:22 PM
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DQ,
what brand and size of tires are you using for the level 1 ? What alignment specs work the best ?
We really like the BFG KDW. It's not crazy expensive and works very well and is Y rated (186 MPH). KD is the dry version, KDW is the wet - we use the wet version generally.
The blue R/T above had 245/40-18 front and 265/40-18 rear. We've also done 255/40-17 up front.
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