Re: Stroker build question
[Re: sixpackgut]
#447712
08/24/09 07:30 AM
08/24/09 07:30 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
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First, he advertises the kits for a .060 over bore. Most factory blocks are not safe with longer strokes at .060 over, and there are aspects of the kits that you ned to pay atention to. Such as the ability to use the factory style internal pickup, or oil ring supports, piston compression heights, etc.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Stroker build question
[Re: moper]
#447713
08/24/09 09:36 AM
08/24/09 09:36 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,860
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
OP
Don't question me!
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OP
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Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
First, he advertises the kits for a .060 over bore. Most factory blocks are not safe with longer strokes at .060 over, and there are aspects of the kits that you ned to pay atention to. Such as the ability to use the factory style internal pickup, or oil ring supports, piston compression heights, etc.
Ok, ... RB block - so it will take the longer stroke.
External p/u is not an issue.
Apparently the pin does not interfer with the oil ring supports.
Compression height for the 528 is 1.423
Why are factory blocks not safe with .060 over on a longer stroke?
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Re: Stroker build question
[Re: Stanton]
#447714
08/24/09 11:56 AM
08/24/09 11:56 AM
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Posts: 74,970
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
Why are factory blocks not safe with .060 over on a longer stroke?
because the cylinder walls on the pre SUPPOSED THINWALL castings  get pretty thin at that size, the extra stress will eventually split them .
any block you plan to do any boring to should be sonic checked FIRST .
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Re: Stroker build question
[Re: JohnRR]
#447715
08/24/09 12:02 PM
08/24/09 12:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
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I Live Here
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B and RB have no bearing on whether the cranks will fit due to stroke. Different displacements in different blocks with different rods will require different things. GOing of an iffy memory.. the strokes longer than 4.15" in a B block with the long rod (7.1) need the oil ring supprts. RB does not. The 4.15 stroke clears the oil pickup boss in the RB with any rod. The 4.25 needs the 7.1" Chevy pin size rod to clear, and it is VERY close so you may still need to trim it.
And, LIke John said. No block is anythicker than the others. Not by year, not by casting number, not by deck height. All suffer from core shift which is the great equalizer that saps potential from them all. Always have a block sonic tested when exceeding the factory stroke. A sleeve or two and the test is still far cheaper than splitting a block, hydraulicing it and bending or breaking things.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Stroker build question
[Re: BDS871Cuda]
#447717
08/24/09 02:04 PM
08/24/09 02:04 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,860
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
OP
Don't question me!
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OP
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Quote:
The 511 or 512 inch that "440 Jim" and
others build on here seem to do real well and do
not need extra cost added. Is there really a lot
to gain adding 16 inches?
Just one way to look at it. I'm sure others
have a different way to look at it.
Well, I have a late block and its been sonic checked and all seems fine - no signicicant core shift, etc.. I already have the external oil system so that's no additional cost. So its just a matter of determining if there's a good reason not to go the extra cubes. Brandon at 440Source says there should be no issue with the compression height of the 528 combo.
If, given the same combo of parts, a 512 made more torque and hp than a 528 then that would be a good reason !!!
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Re: Stroker build question
[Re: BDS871Cuda]
#447718
08/25/09 09:03 AM
08/25/09 09:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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JohnRR
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Quote:
Quote:
Ok, so you can get any stroker kit from 500 to 528 c.i. from 440Source for the same price. Why would you settle for a 500" stroker when for the same $$ you can have a 528" ????
Thanks to moper and the rest of the guy's for the
facts on this. I kind of look at it a simple
way. The 511 or 512 inch that "440 Jim" and
others build on here seem to do real well and do
not need extra cost added. Is there really a lot
to gain adding 16 inches?
Just one way to look at it. I'm sure others
have a different way to look at it.
440Jim built that size engine in part because he has a low deck and going bigger has it's issues , especially if you want a TROUBLE free combo like he seems to have .
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Re: Stroker build question
[Re: Stanton]
#447719
08/25/09 11:42 AM
08/25/09 11:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
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I Live Here
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Columbia, CT
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Quote:
So its just a matter of determining if there's a good reason not to go the extra cubes. Brandon at 440Source says there should be no issue with the compression height of the 528 combo.
If, given the same combo of parts, a 512 made more torque and hp than a 528 then that would be a good reason !!!
No, there are other reasons. Those being overall packaging, required support items like carbs, intakes, heads, and headers, plus things like wear on a street car. In this case, the 4.25 is about it in terms of mild head choices. The RPMs need a bit of work to make really good numbers on that combo. OOTB RPMs will just be enough. The longer stroke for the 528 package means you MUST have better heads. Meaning cash outlay. Add tothat the larger carb, the roller cam because solid flat tappets for something that large will be on the raged edge of usable in a street car, the tall intake and Dominator carb, the 2 1/8 or special raised port headers... It's not making overall most power. But the one that will make it in your car with the hood closed and exhaust on it. Ad to that the street part and wear should be taken into account. The shortest piston you want to last is 1.485. Shorter than that and you are counting miles in thousands, not tens of thousands. And, you cannot run a tight quench because they rock so much. Plus, more than likely the block will be trashed after that because the bores will be worn out. A 600hp/600tq "mild" 505 (the 512 kit in a .030 over block) is more than enough for most people and will last very, very well. Sometimes someone wants more but I find for the most part the ones that ask for "X" horsepower or "xxx cubic inches" for their cruise night or street car, have no experience with what an oldschool true 600hp feels like to drive on the street or what it takes to reach it. All I would say is keep the total picture in view. I know a few 440+.030 rebuilds that will walk all over others' 499" or larger engines because the larger ones are simply not supported well enough.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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