Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: moparniac]
#446842
08/23/09 11:08 AM
08/23/09 11:08 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,207 Menomonee Falls
DemonDust
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,207
Menomonee Falls
|
Quote:
Just PM Quktree or sixpackgut
Yeah there is tech video on the here somewhere, very informative
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: DemonDust]
#446843
08/23/09 12:48 PM
08/23/09 12:48 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
|
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
|
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#446846
08/23/09 01:53 PM
08/23/09 01:53 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
You are correct. Pinion angle is the relationship between the pinion centerline and the crank/transmission centerline.
Make the pinion parallel to the transmission as a base-line, then pivot the pinion downward 2-3 degrees. In other words, the resulting pinion angle will be 2-3 degrees under parallel (nose down) to the transmission centerline when the car is at rest.
BTW, there are some jokers around here who say I'm telling you to index the transmission angle relative to the pinion instead of the other way around.
I see a movie being made now of drdiff by the haters
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#446849
08/23/09 05:25 PM
08/23/09 05:25 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Quote:
No DR Diff hater here. I just wish he lived closer than BuzzardBreath Wyoming. I'd have a dana in my minivan !!
Bad excuse, UPS, Fed Ex abd others deliver get one now before Quicktree breaks all of them even Quicktree can't break a Dana 60
I am going to try like hell
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: Quicktree]
#446850
08/23/09 05:28 PM
08/23/09 05:28 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981 SE Michigan
TS3303
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981
SE Michigan
|
Quote:
I am going to try like hell
just wait for Ray to get back from his boon doggle with you know who and have him set it up.
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: TS3303]
#446851
08/23/09 06:05 PM
08/23/09 06:05 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Quote:
I am going to try like hell
just wait for Ray to get back from his boon doggle with you know who and have him set it up.
yea but no thanks
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#446852
08/23/09 09:28 PM
08/23/09 09:28 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
You are correct. Pinion angle is the relationship between the pinion centerline and the crank/transmission centerline.
Make the pinion parallel to the transmission as a base-line, then pivot the pinion downward 2-3 degrees. In other words, the resulting pinion angle will be 2-3 degrees under parallel (nose down) to the transmission centerline when the car is at rest.............
I gotta say that I respectfully disagree with doing it that way........at least with a leaf spring car anyway.........
On my cars, and anything with decent power, especially with a stick, I'd always set the pinion down 7* with relationship to the driveshaft and it's ALWAYS worked great.......but, after reading here on Moparts how I need to set it to the crank centerline by Tony (Quicktree) so many times, I decided to do it that way on my just finished 68 GTS...........but first I've got to warn you that I did put 1" spacers between the K-frame and the body to lower the engine in the car which points the tail housing up a few degrees............
I set the pinion angle 7* down from the crankshaft center line and the car was fine until I let off the gas and it howled SO BAD I thought the rearend was was going to come apart.......... so, thanks to all the pinion angle threads on Moparts, I had to pull the rearend back out, cut the perches off, and reweld them back on.........this time with the angle 7* down from the driveshaft and it works GREAT now.........
So, I will NEVER set pinion angle that way again.........that's my on this.........
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
#446853
08/23/09 09:38 PM
08/23/09 09:38 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Quote:
You are correct. Pinion angle is the relationship between the pinion centerline and the crank/transmission centerline.
Make the pinion parallel to the transmission as a base-line, then pivot the pinion downward 2-3 degrees. In other words, the resulting pinion angle will be 2-3 degrees under parallel (nose down) to the transmission centerline when the car is at rest.............
I gotta say that I respectfully disagree with doing it that way........at least with a leaf spring car anyway.........
On my cars, and anything with decent power, especially with a stick, I'd always set the pinion down 7* with relationship to the driveshaft and it's ALWAYS worked great.......but, after reading here on Moparts how I need to set it to the crank centerline by Tony (Quicktree) so many times, I decided to do it that way on my just finished 68 GTS...........but first I've got to warn you that I did put 1" spacers between the K-frame and the body to lower the engine in the car which points the tail housing up a few degrees............
I set the pinion angle 7* down from the crankshaft center line and the car was fine until I let off the gas and it howled SO BAD I thought the rearend was was going to come apart.......... so, thanks to all the pinion angle threads on Moparts, I had to pull the rearend back out, cut the perches off, and reweld them back on.........this time with the angle 7* down from the driveshaft and it works GREAT now.........
So, I will NEVER set pinion angle that way again.........that's my on this.........
ever think 7 maybe to much and I didn't invent the method. it is taught by people who run a lot faster than you or I will ever run. think about the purpose of setting pinion angle. setting it off of the drive shaft ignores the front ujoint totally. ever think the springs maybe wearing out letting the pinon go more than the desired amount? remember the guess of 7* down or what ever is just a guess. no way to figure out the perfect amount except trail and error or maybe some kind of video.
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: Quicktree]
#446854
08/23/09 09:43 PM
08/23/09 09:43 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
ever think 7 maybe to much and I didn't invent the method. it is taught by people who run a lot faster than you or I will ever run. think about the purpose of setting pinion angle. setting it off of the drive shaft ignores the front ujoint totally. ever think the springs maybe wearing out letting the pinon go more than the desired amount? remember the guess of 7* down or what ever is just a guess. no way to figure out the perfect amount except trail and error or maybe some kind of video.
Like I'd mentioned.......that was with a leaf spring car, and it does have slicks, and it does make close to 600HP, and I does launch like I stole it......and I doesn't want the driveshaft to smack the floor pan when I do........been there, done that.....
The thing you're forgetting is that a LOT of places recommend 6 to 7* pinion angle with a leaf spring car that's making some poop, and my car would not work doing it that way.............that's all I'm saying........
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
#446856
08/23/09 09:50 PM
08/23/09 09:50 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Quote:
ever think 7 maybe to much and I didn't invent the method. it is taught by people who run a lot faster than you or I will ever run. think about the purpose of setting pinion angle. setting it off of the drive shaft ignores the front ujoint totally. ever think the springs maybe wearing out letting the pinon go more than the desired amount? remember the guess of 7* down or what ever is just a guess. no way to figure out the perfect amount except trail and error or maybe some kind of video.
Like I'd mentioned.......that was with a leaf spring car, and it does have slicks, and it does make close to 600HP, and I does launch like I stole it......and I doesn't want the driveshaft to smack the floor pan when I do........been there, done that.....
The thing you're forgetting is that a LOT of places recommend 6 to 7* pinion angle with a leaf spring car that's making some poop, and my car would not work doing it that way.............that's all I'm saying........
another thing, not many if any leaf cars have a motor/tranny centerline angle going up.. just something to think about before you condem the method.
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: dOc !]
#446858
08/23/09 09:52 PM
08/23/09 09:52 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
NEVER had a 4 link ... but 7 degrees ?
On a suspension that should have ZERO change of pinion angle through the up and down movement.
That type of an angle is costing power.
In BOTH of my replies, I said LEAF SPRINGS.........
and with the pinion angle down 7* with a 4 link, it isn't losing an ET.......but that's for another thread.......
Quote:
another thing, not many if any leaf cars have a motor/tranny centerline angle going up.. just something to think about before you condem the method.
What's that got to do with anything? What's the output shaft angle in a jacked up 4 wheel drive truck in relationship to the pinion???? UP????
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: moparniac]
#446861
08/23/09 09:56 PM
08/23/09 09:56 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I've seen that drawing here on Moparts a MILLION times and I understand it completely......but I did it that way, and it howled like a stuck hog when letting off the throttle.........so I'm not doing it that way ever again.........
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: dOc !]
#446862
08/23/09 09:59 PM
08/23/09 09:59 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
B S ...I did not read each and every post in detail...I was responding to mm's topic ...and that several people were saying 7 degrees.
And I disagree ... 7 down will cost power(maybe not much) ...on something that does-not need-it.
I said it wouldn't lose ET.......and that's all that matters........as long as it doesn't go above zero, you're peeing in the ocean to raise the tide and it's not even measureable.........
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
#446863
08/23/09 09:59 PM
08/23/09 09:59 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Quote:
NEVER had a 4 link ... but 7 degrees ?
On a suspension that should have ZERO change of pinion angle through the up and down movement.
That type of an angle is costing power.
In BOTH of my replies, I said LEAF SPRINGS.........
and with the pinion angle down 7* with a 4 link, it isn't losing an ET.......but that's for another thread.......
Quote:
another thing, not many if any leaf cars have a motor/tranny centerline angle going up.. just something to think about before you condem the method.
What's that got to do with anything? What's the output shaft angle in a jacked up 4 wheel drive truck in relationship to the pinion???? UP????
have no idea, never drag raced a 4 wheel drive. I hear that brought up a lot but don't know why it's mentioned when setting up a drag car. bottom line you have to do what works for you
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: Quicktree]
#446864
08/23/09 10:06 PM
08/23/09 10:06 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
What's that got to do with anything? What's the output shaft angle in a jacked up 4 wheel drive truck in relationship to the pinion???? UP????
Quote:
have no idea, never drag raced a 4 wheel drive. I hear that brought up a lot but don't know why it's mentioned when setting up a drag car. bottom line you have to do what works for you
I compared it to them because you brought up me having lowered my K-frame which raised the tailshaft a few degrees.........
That's what I'm saying........it doesn't necessarily work.......There's a window where either way will work fine and NOBODY would be able to measure any ET difference anyway........I found out where the way you guys do it wouldn't work and I wanted to let people know......
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
#446865
08/23/09 10:08 PM
08/23/09 10:08 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 705 Michigan
Hemiroid
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 705
Michigan
|
Quote:
Like I'd mentioned.......that was with a leaf spring car, and it does have slicks, and it does make close to 600HP, and I does launch like I stole it......and I doesn't want the driveshaft to smack the floor pan when I do........been there, done that.....
The thing you're forgetting is that a LOT of places recommend 6 to 7* pinion angle with a leaf spring car that's making some poop, and my car would not work doing it that way.............that's all I'm saying........
I'll face the firing squad with ya Big I've kept my mouth shut while this subject has been debated here, but for 25+ years I've done it your way and never had a problem. For a leaf spring car, I line up the driveshaft with the pinion, then push the nose of the pinion down around 5 degrees. I just leave the u-bolts loose and push the rear end where I want it, then weld the perches.
Theory-craft and books are nice, but what works in practical application in the field and what the book says don't always jibe.
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: Quicktree]
#446866
08/23/09 10:08 PM
08/23/09 10:08 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
|
Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
|
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspxenough said. The Joker
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: sixpackgut]
#446867
08/23/09 10:14 PM
08/23/09 10:14 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: sixpackgut]
#446869
08/23/09 10:26 PM
08/23/09 10:26 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: Quicktree]
#446870
08/23/09 10:29 PM
08/23/09 10:29 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295 U.S.
moparniac
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
|
I have a dumb question as usual! What if a guy like me is putting in a dana 60 from previously having a 8 3/4 which I am and dont have a driveshaft yet to go off the driveshaft method cause I need to set the car on its suspension and roll the pinion down and weld in the perches and need the rear done to get actual measuremnet for a new driveshaft
Last edited by *WeDgiE*; 08/23/09 10:30 PM.
Mopar Performance
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: Quicktree]
#446871
08/23/09 10:29 PM
08/23/09 10:29 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,872 CheddarHead till October
weedlayer
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,872
CheddarHead till October
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.
why not u sceeeeered
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: moparniac]
#446872
08/23/09 10:32 PM
08/23/09 10:32 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
I have a dumb question as usual! What if a guy like me is putting in a dana 60 from previously having a 8 3/4 which I am and dont have a driveshaft yet to go off the driveshaft method cause I need to set the car on its suspension and roll the pinion down and weld in the perches and need the rear done to get actual measuremnet for a new driveshaft
pinion angle is the last thing you do no matter which method you use. so you will have a shaft by then or you wont be racing anyway
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: weedlayer]
#446873
08/23/09 10:34 PM
08/23/09 10:34 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.
why not u sceeeeered
no not really, you sponsor it and I will build and drive it. how does that sound? when can I expect the first sponsor check?
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: Quicktree]
#446875
08/23/09 10:40 PM
08/23/09 10:40 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
|
Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.
so what do you desire? just pretending your a chassis guru?
wedgie's nonsensical chart
trans angle 2* down(like most mopars) set pinion angle 2* up. now the rear and trans centerline are in parallel. then what? what is the pinion angle at this point Mr Quicktree? is it ZERO? What if Calvert said to set pinion angle 2* down, ok, now the driveshaft is in a straight line with the pinion(a big no no on the chart) although not a big deal on a mopar because the engine is off center and there will still be movement inside the U joints BUT if the engine and rear are in line, this doesnt work. neither does setup on a stock suspension with just leaf springs.
i really wish you would explain your way better because the only lesson learned was big squeeze trying it your way and it doesnt work
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: sixpackgut]
#446876
08/23/09 10:45 PM
08/23/09 10:45 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.
so what do you desire? just pretending your a chassis guru?
wedgie's nonsensical chart
trans angle 2* down(like most mopars) set pinion angle 2* up. now the rear and trans centerline are in parallel. then what? what is the pinion angle at this point Mr Quicktree? is it ZERO? What if Calvert said to set pinion angle 2* down, ok, now the driveshaft is in a straight line with the pinion(a big no no on the chart) although not a big deal on a mopar because the engine is off center and there will still be movement inside the U joints BUT if the engine and rear are in line, this doesnt work. neither does setup on a stock suspension with just leaf springs.
i really wish you would explain your way better because the only lesson learned was big squeeze trying it your way and it doesnt work
I don't pretend to be anything, I am just an old bracket racer and do what works for me.
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: Quicktree]
#446877
08/23/09 10:47 PM
08/23/09 10:47 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
|
Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.
why not u sceeeeered
no not really, you sponsor it and I will build and drive it. how does that sound? when can I expect the first sponsor check?
car never make it off the starting line and you would be blaming all the horsepower you make to the guys cleaning up the gear oil
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: sixpackgut]
#446878
08/23/09 10:50 PM
08/23/09 10:50 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.
why not u sceeeeered
no not really, you sponsor it and I will build and drive it. how does that sound? when can I expect the first sponsor check?
car never make it off the starting line and you would be blaming all the horsepower you make to the guys cleaning up the gear oil
oh yea? where have you ever seen me say anything about making big HP? thats something you have made up to be funny.my junk don't make a lot OF HP and I really don't care.
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
#446881
08/24/09 12:27 AM
08/24/09 12:27 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016 Polson, MT
DoctorDiff
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
|
Wayne,
7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.
This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.
For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.
If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.
If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.
BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:
1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission. 2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear. 3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission. 4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#446883
08/24/09 02:06 AM
08/24/09 02:06 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
|
Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
|
Quote:
Wayne,
7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.
This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.
For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.
If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.
If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.
BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:
1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission. 2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear. 3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission. 4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.
your way, what is pinion angle when trans and rear are parellel? ZERO???? SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION BECAUSE NO ONE EVER DOES
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: 493_DART]
#446884
08/24/09 05:02 AM
08/24/09 05:02 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
"oh yea? where have you ever seen me say anything about making big HP? thats something you have made up to be funny.my junk don't make a lot OF HP and I really don't care. "
So then your pinion angle is set wrong if you are breaking rear ends .
the rear ends that broke had nothing to do with pinion angle, thats another myth made up by sixpackgut. they were 30 year old passenger car rears.
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: sixpackgut]
#446885
08/24/09 05:04 AM
08/24/09 05:04 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx
enough said.
The Joker
enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.
untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie
have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.
why not u sceeeeered
no not really, you sponsor it and I will build and drive it. how does that sound? when can I expect the first sponsor check?
car never make it off the starting line and you would be blaming all the horsepower you make to the guys cleaning up the gear oil
oh yea? where have you ever seen me say anything about making big HP? thats something you have made up to be funny.my junk don't make a lot OF HP and I really don't care.
are you feeding me for thanksgiving
Also, Big Squeeze, beautiful car
yea I'll still feed you, but your probably not going to like the taste of what I am thinking about...
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: sixpackgut]
#446886
08/24/09 05:11 AM
08/24/09 05:11 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Quote:
Wayne,
7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.
This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.
For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.
If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.
If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.
BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:
1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission. 2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear. 3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission. 4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.
your way, what is pinion angle when trans and rear are parellel? ZERO???? SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION BECAUSE NO ONE EVER DOES
not sure what your asking is why you don't get an answer. how often do you run into that situation? maybe on a chassis car you would. and the only thing you do is roll the pinion down depending on what suspension you have.
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#446887
08/24/09 08:29 AM
08/24/09 08:29 AM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
Also, Big Squeeze, beautiful car
THANKS.......
Quote:
Wayne,
7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.
I never said that you said to run that much, I only said that I did it that way and it didn't work that way with me using 7* on my leaf spring car......Yeah, obviously it was too much when doing it your way, or it wouldn't have howled like crazy ........What I am saying is that I've run that much for 15 years, doing it my way, in all kinds of cars and have NEVER had an issue with vibration..........
Quote:
This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.
I AGREE.......and my theory is that as long as the pinion angle doesn't go over zero with the driveshaft and it's not low enough to howl, it's fine in a drag car and WON'T COST ANY ET or "rob horsepower", or even a street car, so it's always been a "hit" and not a "miss" with me........
Quote:
For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.
The problem with saying "perfect" is that there's a pretty large window where the thing won't vibrate and it would be called "perfect"......
From doing what I'd done, it's obvious to me that if I had a jacked up 4 wheel drive truck and the output shaft and pinion were parralel to each other......and the driveshaft were pointed down at a 45* angle, and I then rotated the pinion down 2, 4, or 6* or whatever, it would REALLY howl........
The point is that the way you guys do it works fine if the output shaft and driveshaft are relatively parralel to each other.......
When I'd set my pinion angle the way that the Moparts chart shows , I had 11 degrees negative pinion angle to the driveshaft.......but it was only 7* down from the output shaft, which is what that chart shows..........and man, did it howl like crazy......
So, my point with that is, let's say we have an extreme example.........and our race car with a 4 link was set up similar to my car in that the engine were facing downhill.......and the pinion angle to driveshaft angle ended up being 11* different just like my car, even though the pinion was only down 4 degrees from the outputshaft, I guarantee that it would howl like crazy.........
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: Quicktree]
#446888
08/24/09 10:05 AM
08/24/09 10:05 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
|
Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Wayne,
7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.
This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.
For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.
If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.
If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.
BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:
1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission. 2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear. 3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission. 4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.
your way, what is pinion angle when trans and rear are parellel? ZERO???? SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION BECAUSE NO ONE EVER DOES
not sure what your asking is why you don't get an answer. how often do you run into that situation? maybe on a chassis car you would. and the only thing you do is roll the pinion down depending on what suspension you have.
if your tranny is 2* down and the rear is 2* up then it should be in parallel, correct? AT THIS POINT, HOW DO YOU GET 0* ( ZERO ) PINION ANGLE? ANSWER THE QUESTION
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: sixpackgut]
#446891
08/24/09 10:27 AM
08/24/09 10:27 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295 U.S.
moparniac
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Wayne,
7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.
This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.
For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.
If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.
If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.
BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:
1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission. 2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear. 3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission. 4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.
your way, what is pinion angle when trans and rear are parellel? ZERO???? SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION BECAUSE NO ONE EVER DOES
not sure what your asking is why you don't get an answer. how often do you run into that situation? maybe on a chassis car you would. and the only thing you do is roll the pinion down depending on what suspension you have.
if your tranny is 2* down and the rear is 2* up then it should be in parallel, correct? AT THIS POINT, HOW DO YOU GET 0* ( ZERO ) PINION ANGLE? ANSWER THE QUESTION
Isnt that working angles and not pinion angles
Mopar Performance
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#446893
08/24/09 10:49 AM
08/24/09 10:49 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295 U.S.
moparniac
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
|
Cass empty your inbox..... lol says its full!
Mopar Performance
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: sixpackgut]
#446896
08/24/09 12:21 PM
08/24/09 12:21 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Wayne,
7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.
This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.
For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.
If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.
If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.
BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:
1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission. 2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear. 3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission. 4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.
your way, what is pinion angle when trans and rear are parellel? ZERO???? SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION BECAUSE NO ONE EVER DOES
not sure what your asking is why you don't get an answer. how often do you run into that situation? maybe on a chassis car you would. and the only thing you do is roll the pinion down depending on what suspension you have.
if your tranny is 2* down and the rear is 2* up then it should be in parallel, correct? AT THIS POINT, HOW DO YOU GET 0* ( ZERO ) PINION ANGLE? ANSWER THE QUESTION
my god are you kidding me it's been answered at least a million times nothing else I can say
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#446897
08/24/09 12:23 PM
08/24/09 12:23 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
|
Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
|
Quote:
If the transmission slopes downward 2 degrees toward the rear and the pinion slopes upward 2 degrees toward the front (parallel), you have 0 degree pinion angle.
If the transmission slopes downward 2 degrees toward the rear and the pinion is level, you have 2 degree negative pinion angle.
if your front U joint is 12" from the ground and the rear U joint is 13" from the ground, there is no way on gods green earth this is correct.
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#446898
08/24/09 12:26 PM
08/24/09 12:26 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Quote:
Pinion angle is the relationship between the transmission centerline and the pinion centerline.
Working angle = driveshaft angle
YEP
also and so do many more but they don't get involved because they are scared of being ridiculed by the naysayers. I could care less. and could also care less how many stupid movies they make or how many names they call. and I dam sure don't care how they set theirs up
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#446900
08/24/09 01:32 PM
08/24/09 01:32 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
That scenario is very correct, and it illustrates why you can not always set pinion angle off the driveshaft.
Under power, you want the front and rear U-joint angles to cancel each other out (pinion parallel to transmission). You do not want both front and rear yokes pointing up or both pointing down.
can't be made any simpler. I see a doctordiff movie coming
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#446901
08/24/09 02:38 PM
08/24/09 02:38 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,128 sweden
sshemi
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,128
sweden
|
Quote:
That scenario is very correct, and it illustrates why you can not always set pinion angle off the driveshaft.
Under power, you want the front and rear U-joint angles to cancel each other out (pinion parallel to transmission). You do not want both front and rear yokes pointing up or both pointing down.
The purpose with it is to have both u-joints rotating with the same speed. I know this wont make sence to many but my english is not good enough to explain. Maybe someone else can?
|
|
|
Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle??
[Re: sshemi]
#446902
08/24/09 03:27 PM
08/24/09 03:27 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Quote:
That scenario is very correct, and it illustrates why you can not always set pinion angle off the driveshaft.
Under power, you want the front and rear U-joint angles to cancel each other out (pinion parallel to transmission). You do not want both front and rear yokes pointing up or both pointing down.
The purpose with it is to have both u-joints rotating with the same speed. I know this wont make sence to many but my english is not good enough to explain. Maybe someone else can?
no use, we ae not going to change their minds nor are we trying. their MO is to belittle or bash those who choose to have a different opinion.
|
|
|
|
|