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Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: sixpackgut] #446878
08/23/09 10:50 PM
08/23/09 10:50 PM
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my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx

enough said.

The Joker




enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.




untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie




have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.





why not u sceeeeered




no not really, you sponsor it and I will build and drive it. how does that sound? when can I expect the first sponsor check?





car never make it off the starting line and you would be blaming all the horsepower you make to the guys cleaning up the gear oil




oh yea? where have you ever seen me say anything about making big HP? thats something you have made up to be funny.my junk don't make a lot OF HP and I really don't care.

Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: Quicktree] #446879
08/23/09 10:57 PM
08/23/09 10:57 PM
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my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx

enough said.

The Joker




enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.




untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie




have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.





why not u sceeeeered




no not really, you sponsor it and I will build and drive it. how does that sound? when can I expect the first sponsor check?





car never make it off the starting line and you would be blaming all the horsepower you make to the guys cleaning up the gear oil




oh yea? where have you ever seen me say anything about making big HP? thats something you have made up to be funny.my junk don't make a lot OF HP and I really don't care.




are you feeding me for thanksgiving

Also, Big Squeeze, beautiful car

Last edited by sixpackgut; 08/23/09 11:09 PM.

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Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: sixpackgut] #446880
08/23/09 10:59 PM
08/23/09 10:59 PM
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Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? #446881
08/24/09 12:27 AM
08/24/09 12:27 AM
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Wayne,

7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.

This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.

For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.

If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.

If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.

BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:

1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission.
2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear.
3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission.
4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.

Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: sixpackgut] #446882
08/24/09 02:06 AM
08/24/09 02:06 AM
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"oh yea? where have you ever seen me say anything about making big HP? thats something you have made up to be funny.my junk don't make a lot OF HP and I really don't care. "



So then your pinion angle is set wrong if you are breaking rear ends .

Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: DoctorDiff] #446883
08/24/09 02:06 AM
08/24/09 02:06 AM
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Quote:

Wayne,

7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.

This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.

For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.

If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.

If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.

BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:

1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission.
2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear.
3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission.
4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.





your way, what is pinion angle when trans and rear are parellel? ZERO???? SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION BECAUSE NO ONE EVER DOES


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Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: 493_DART] #446884
08/24/09 05:02 AM
08/24/09 05:02 AM
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"oh yea? where have you ever seen me say anything about making big HP? thats something you have made up to be funny.my junk don't make a lot OF HP and I really don't care. "



So then your pinion angle is set wrong if you are breaking rear ends .




the rear ends that broke had nothing to do with pinion angle, thats another myth made up by sixpackgut. they were 30 year old passenger car rears.

Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: sixpackgut] #446885
08/24/09 05:04 AM
08/24/09 05:04 AM
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my way, Monte's way amd Wolfe race cars way http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx

enough said.

The Joker




enough said if you buy into that, you can also find just as many who set it the other way. really I don't care how anybody sets theirs. people have to decide for themselves and learn the hard way I guess. now go make you another movie.




untill you build a 4.70 1/8th mile stock suspension car i will keep listening to the guys who do. no need for a movie




have at it. cause I have no desire to build a stock suspension 4.70 car.





why not u sceeeeered




no not really, you sponsor it and I will build and drive it. how does that sound? when can I expect the first sponsor check?





car never make it off the starting line and you would be blaming all the horsepower you make to the guys cleaning up the gear oil




oh yea? where have you ever seen me say anything about making big HP? thats something you have made up to be funny.my junk don't make a lot OF HP and I really don't care.




are you feeding me for thanksgiving

Also, Big Squeeze, beautiful car




yea I'll still feed you, but your probably not going to like the taste of what I am thinking about...

Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: sixpackgut] #446886
08/24/09 05:11 AM
08/24/09 05:11 AM
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Wayne,

7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.

This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.

For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.

If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.

If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.

BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:

1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission.
2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear.
3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission.
4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.





your way, what is pinion angle when trans and rear are parellel? ZERO???? SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION BECAUSE NO ONE EVER DOES




not sure what your asking is why you don't get an answer. how often do you run into that situation? maybe on a chassis car you would. and the only thing you do is roll the pinion down depending on what suspension you have.

Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: DoctorDiff] #446887
08/24/09 08:29 AM
08/24/09 08:29 AM

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Quote:

Also, Big Squeeze, beautiful car



THANKS.......


Quote:

Wayne,

7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.





I never said that you said to run that much, I only said that I did it that way and it didn't work that way with me using 7* on my leaf spring car......Yeah, obviously it was too much when doing it your way, or it wouldn't have howled like crazy ........What I am saying is that I've run that much for 15 years, doing it my way, in all kinds of cars and have NEVER had an issue with vibration..........


Quote:


This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.



I AGREE.......and my theory is that as long as the pinion angle doesn't go over zero with the driveshaft and it's not low enough to howl, it's fine in a drag car and WON'T COST ANY ET or "rob horsepower", or even a street car, so it's always been a "hit" and not a "miss" with me........


Quote:

For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.




The problem with saying "perfect" is that there's a pretty large window where the thing won't vibrate and it would be called "perfect"......

From doing what I'd done, it's obvious to me that if I had a jacked up 4 wheel drive truck and the output shaft and pinion were parralel to each other......and the driveshaft were pointed down at a 45* angle, and I then rotated the pinion down 2, 4, or 6* or whatever, it would REALLY howl........

The point is that the way you guys do it works fine if the output shaft and driveshaft are relatively parralel to each other.......

When I'd set my pinion angle the way that the Moparts chart shows , I had 11 degrees negative pinion angle to the driveshaft.......but it was only 7* down from the output shaft, which is what that chart shows..........and man, did it howl like crazy......

So, my point with that is, let's say we have an extreme example.........and our race car with a 4 link was set up similar to my car in that the engine were facing downhill.......and the pinion angle to driveshaft angle ended up being 11* different just like my car, even though the pinion was only down 4 degrees from the outputshaft, I guarantee that it would howl like crazy.........

Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: Quicktree] #446888
08/24/09 10:05 AM
08/24/09 10:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Wayne,

7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.

This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.

For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.

If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.

If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.

BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:

1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission.
2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear.
3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission.
4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.





your way, what is pinion angle when trans and rear are parellel? ZERO???? SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION BECAUSE NO ONE EVER DOES




not sure what your asking is why you don't get an answer. how often do you run into that situation? maybe on a chassis car you would. and the only thing you do is roll the pinion down depending on what suspension you have.




if your tranny is 2* down and the rear is 2* up then it should be in parallel, correct? AT THIS POINT, HOW DO YOU GET 0* ( ZERO ) PINION ANGLE? ANSWER THE QUESTION


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Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? #446889
08/24/09 10:05 AM
08/24/09 10:05 AM
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Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
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I agree, there is a fairly large window that a driveshaft will not howl. That is why you can get away with setting pinion angle strictly off the driveshaft in some applications.

The pinion angle can go over zero under load a couple degrees however.

If your pinion was set 4 degrees under parallel to the transmission centerline, it probably would NOT howl like crazy.

Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: sixpackgut] #446890
08/24/09 10:19 AM
08/24/09 10:19 AM
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Polson, MT
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Once again...

Set the pinion parallel to the transmission as a base line, then pivot the pinion downward X degrees. X degrees is the pinion angle.

If the transmission slopes downward 2 degrees toward the rear and the pinion slopes upward 2 degrees toward the front (parallel), you have 0 degree pinion angle.

If the transmission slopes downward 2 degrees toward the rear and the pinion is level, you have 2 degree negative pinion angle.

If the transmission slopes downward 2 degrees toward the rear and the pinion slopes downward 2 degrees toward the front, you have 4 degree negative pinion angle.

Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: sixpackgut] #446891
08/24/09 10:27 AM
08/24/09 10:27 AM
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Wayne,

7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.

This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.

For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.

If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.

If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.

BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:

1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission.
2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear.
3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission.
4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.





your way, what is pinion angle when trans and rear are parellel? ZERO???? SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION BECAUSE NO ONE EVER DOES




not sure what your asking is why you don't get an answer. how often do you run into that situation? maybe on a chassis car you would. and the only thing you do is roll the pinion down depending on what suspension you have.




if your tranny is 2* down and the rear is 2* up then it should be in parallel, correct? AT THIS POINT, HOW DO YOU GET 0* ( ZERO ) PINION ANGLE? ANSWER THE QUESTION




Isnt that working angles and not pinion angles


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Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: moparniac] #446892
08/24/09 10:41 AM
08/24/09 10:41 AM
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Polson, MT
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Pinion angle is the relationship between the transmission centerline and the pinion centerline.

Working angle = driveshaft angle

Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: DoctorDiff] #446893
08/24/09 10:49 AM
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Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: DoctorDiff] #446894
08/24/09 10:57 AM
08/24/09 10:57 AM
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Quote:

Pinion angle is the relationship between the transmission centerline and the pinion centerline.

Working angle = driveshaft angle




YEP


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Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: moparniac] #446895
08/24/09 10:58 AM
08/24/09 10:58 AM
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Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: sixpackgut] #446896
08/24/09 12:21 PM
08/24/09 12:21 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Wayne,

7 degrees is too much negative pinion angle. If you are going to quote me, please post where I told you to run that much.

This isn't rocket science. Depending on the ride height and drivetrain angle of the car, setting pinion angle off the driveshaft is purely hit or miss.

For example, assume your race car's pinion angle is set perfectly and the car has no vibration.

If you raised the engine in the front 3 degrees, changing the drivetrain angle downward, the correct way to compensate for this would be to increase the pinion angle 3 degrees POSITIVE, because it keeps the pinion parallel to what you had before.

If you tried to set the pinion angle off the driveshaft alone, you would increase the pinion angle 3 degrees NEGATIVE, most likely causing a severe vibration because of U-joint binding.

BTW, this is also the correct method to set pinion angle on a lifted 4 x 4 truck with a 1 piece driveshaft:

1. Make the pinion parallel to the transmsission.
2. If pinion binds, lower transmission in the rear.
3. Reset pinion parallel to transmission.
4. If pinion still binds, install a CV joint on the transmission, and point the pinion directly toward the CV joint.





your way, what is pinion angle when trans and rear are parellel? ZERO???? SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION BECAUSE NO ONE EVER DOES




not sure what your asking is why you don't get an answer. how often do you run into that situation? maybe on a chassis car you would. and the only thing you do is roll the pinion down depending on what suspension you have.




if your tranny is 2* down and the rear is 2* up then it should be in parallel, correct? AT THIS POINT, HOW DO YOU GET 0* ( ZERO ) PINION ANGLE? ANSWER THE QUESTION




my god are you kidding me it's been answered at least a million times nothing else I can say

Re: can someone school me on setting pinion angle?? [Re: DoctorDiff] #446897
08/24/09 12:23 PM
08/24/09 12:23 PM
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Charleston
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Quote:

If the transmission slopes downward 2 degrees toward the rear and the pinion slopes upward 2 degrees toward the front (parallel), you have 0 degree pinion angle.

If the transmission slopes downward 2 degrees toward the rear and the pinion is level, you have 2 degree negative pinion angle.





if your front U joint is 12" from the ground and the rear U joint is 13" from the ground, there is no way on gods green earth this is correct.


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