|
off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 -UPDATE -FIXED
#443767
08/19/09 11:20 PM
08/19/09 11:20 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 697
Central IL
70Sbird
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 697
Central IL
|
I've recently replaced the intake and carb on my 1970 440 and have an issue I'd like some real world direction on before I tear into the carb. I had an Edelbrock performer RPM intake and a Holley 850 Double pumper on the car previously. The car ran well, and was great leaving a stoplight either in my neighborhood at low speeds or when moving off the line a little quicker This combo was really too tall for the stock hood and I wanted a more stock appearing engine compartment. I swaped in a 1971 square bore iron 440 intake and an Edelbrock #1411 750 cfm vac secondary carb. I'm OK with the overall performance of this combo as this car is a driver and I'm willing to trade maximum performance for street manners. The issue I have is an off idle stumble at light throttle; I need to give the car much more throttle to leave a stop smoothly than I did with the Holley. If I rev it up and slip the clutch more, it works great, but at light throttle it stumbles/bogs. I've been reading on the internet and this seems to be a fairly common issue with this carb on larger displacement engines.  Has anyone had real experience with these, I just wanted a reality check before I go tearing into this carb and spend a bunch of money and time for marginal results! Thanks! Scott
Last edited by 70Sbird; 09/08/09 08:38 AM.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: racincuda]
#443769
08/19/09 11:34 PM
08/19/09 11:34 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
|
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
|
Not that it can't work, but you are in a long list of guys that have faught with the Eddy 750 off-idle stumble. Do a search on it, you'll be amazed. I tried every setting and rod / jet combo immaginable. Tried two different carbs, same issue with both. Went to a Holley 750, Sooooo much better.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: 70Sbird]
#443771
08/19/09 11:44 PM
08/19/09 11:44 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
|
Is it a new carb?
Might just be a weak accel pump not shootng out fuel right away.
Look down in the carb and move the throttle, see if fuel comes out right away.
I want my fair share
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#443774
08/19/09 11:55 PM
08/19/09 11:55 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,179
S.E. Conn
Hoof Hearted
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,179
S.E. Conn
|
I have been through this personally with a couple of Eddy 750's and I have a solution that Does Work! 1) Verify that your floats are set properly 2) Try different springs for a quicker opening of the needle. 3) Verify that your accelerator/plunger is good(replace if any doubt) 4) Adjust the linkage that operates the accelerator; There's 3 settings, I believe the arm should be in the top hole. 5) Finally, the thing that most guys won't try: Remove the Primary Squirters and drill them out very, very slightly(get some tiny, tiny drill bits). Don't be afraid to try it. The last one is what did it for me.  Let us know how you make out.
2005 300C Hemi
2014 Ram ProMaster 2500
I Rekey, Repin old Chrysler locks and cut keys by code
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Hoof Hearted]
#443775
08/19/09 11:59 PM
08/19/09 11:59 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 697
Central IL
70Sbird
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 697
Central IL
|
Quote:
I have been through this personally with a couple of Eddy 750's and I have a solution that Does Work!
1) Verify that your floats are set properly
2) Verify that your accelerator/plunger is good(replace if any doubt)
3) Adjust the linkage that operates the accelerator; There's 3 settings, I believe the arm should be in the top hole.
4) Finally, the thing that most guys won't try: Remove the Primary Squirters and drill them out very, very slightly(get some tiny, tiny drill bits).
The last one is what did it for me.
Let us know how you make out.
so you're suggesting drilling out the accelerator pump shooters slightly?
I can do that fairly easily! the kit they sell has three sizes and maxes out at .043" compared to the .035 on there now
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: 70Sbird]
#443777
08/20/09 12:14 AM
08/20/09 12:14 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,179
S.E. Conn
Hoof Hearted
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,179
S.E. Conn
|
yep. Start small, it don't take much out initially and be sure to follow/drill straight thru. (No coke bottleing at the end)  Instantly noticable improvement. You made it clear your wishes were to stay stock looking and have more clearance. You Were Clear on this point. Yet the usual Anti-Eddy/holley-rules crowd had to ignore your preferences.  I love Moparts, don't you? 
2005 300C Hemi
2014 Ram ProMaster 2500
I Rekey, Repin old Chrysler locks and cut keys by code
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#443779
08/20/09 08:02 AM
08/20/09 08:02 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
|
Get the tuning kit for that carb and follow the booklet instructions that came with that carb and you should be able to easily fix your off idle stumble problem. These are some of the easiest carbs I know of to tune, and the booklet makes it a no brainer. Edelbrock did their homework. For your application you shouldn't have to modify anything on the carb to get it to work well. Per many good comments on this thread, make sure the carb is healthy to start with - good pump diaphram, floats set properly, etc, then just make changes to the rods, springs, jets, pump rod, per the booklet ( calibration reference chart )and you should be good to go.
Fastest 300
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Crizila]
#443780
08/20/09 09:06 AM
08/20/09 09:06 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 697
Central IL
70Sbird
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 697
Central IL
|
Thanks for the feedback, I guess I should clarify, I want a stock appearing engine compartment with the stock air cleaner and coil location, those were not options when I had a dual inlet holley and tall intake.
Last edited by 70Sbird; 08/20/09 09:07 AM.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Crizila]
#443782
08/20/09 09:50 AM
08/20/09 09:50 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 697
Central IL
70Sbird
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 697
Central IL
|
"Pretty, but can it fight." Stock appearing ? - "CAT" on the side of your battery aint workin. 
You have to understand this car is a driver that is still in the process of becoming a complete car from the abandon project in boxes and pieces that it was when I purchased it a few years ago, I'm just trying to do this one step at a time, and I already had the battery!
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: 70Sbird]
#443785
08/20/09 10:56 AM
08/20/09 10:56 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,770
Wethersfield,CT
Ray440
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,770
Wethersfield,CT
|
Has anyone tried this before? Below the accelerator discharge squirter there is a small weight and a check ball. Buddy of mine had removed the weight and his stumble is gone. Leave the check ball in.
1969 Plymouth Road Runner 440 auto
2017 Ram 1500 Quad Cab 5.7 Hemi
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Ray440]
#443786
08/20/09 02:43 PM
08/20/09 02:43 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
|
Quote:
Buddy of mine had removed the weight and his stumble is gone. Leave the check ball in.
That would make sense as the weight would take up space & interfere w the flow, then if you dial in your shooter nozzle dia
Last edited by RapidRobert; 08/20/09 02:44 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: 70Sbird]
#443787
08/20/09 02:55 PM
08/20/09 02:55 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 288
Birmingham, England
Mick70RR
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 288
Birmingham, England
|
I tried for 2 years to get rid of that off-idle bog and gave up in the end. The 750 eddy carbs are famous for it, try doing a search around other performance car forums. I tried every mod I read about and although I made some improvement I never did get rid of the bog completely. I bought a double pumper in the end. I've heard that the Thunder series AVS style carbs don't duffer with the same problem. They would still give you that stock look and an 850cfm is available..
1970 Road Runner
505 cid
MCH CNC ported Stealth heads
MP 528 camshaft
4 speed
GV overdrive
11.98 @ 117 on street treads
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Dougsmopars]
#443792
08/21/09 01:58 PM
08/21/09 01:58 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,760
Port Alberni, British Columbia
MoparDonny
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,760
Port Alberni, British Columbia
|
Quote:
with a big cam there isn't enough vac to hold down the metering rods during idle. They stay up at full rich. The air/fuel screws do little if anything in this condition. I've only seen this problem with eddies when installed on big cam motors. Mine only had 7 inches of vac at idle in park and 3 to 4 inches at idle in gear. Now with initial timing set at 20 car runs super with no stumble. But did need to recurve the mech advance in distributor to keep total at 38 degrees
with a 280 MP cam the mixture screws WILL need to be adjusted out.Manifold vacuum is too low to pull fuel through the idle circuit. If he has 10 inches of vacuum at idle in park I'd be suprised. Mine was a tad lower. I think the stock orange springs in a 1407 or 1408 Eddy may be a little stiff. I think I had blue stepup springs in mine but if he has over 8 inches of vac in gear the orange shouldn't create a stumble. More timing will help everything too. I welded the slots on my distributor to give me 18 initial and 34 total.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#443793
08/23/09 04:48 PM
08/23/09 04:48 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
If he wants it to look stock he needs to find a Carter AVS or second choice would be the Eddy AVS.
He should get the EDDY AVS , the preformer RPM 750 HAS ISSUES ...
anyone ever compare the size of the squirters on an original AVS to the ones on the EDDY ??
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Dougsmopars]
#443797
08/23/09 08:33 PM
08/23/09 08:33 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,492
NJ
Annie
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,492
NJ
|
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Annie]
#443798
08/23/09 09:12 PM
08/23/09 09:12 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,270
Missouri
MY340
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,270
Missouri
|
I must be the only #1407 Edelbrock 750 cfm AFB carb owner that's happy with their carb.  It's 2 yrs old with no problems & very good performance. Installed a $6 manual hand choke last week and now even starts easy when sitting for a week.
1970 FE5 Duster 360/904/3.91's SOLD
1973 TB3 SpaceDuster 340/4spd/4.10's SOLD
Moparless for now but when the opportunity is right I'll have another one.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: MY340]
#443799
08/24/09 12:03 AM
08/24/09 12:03 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
I must be the only #1407 Edelbrock 750 cfm AFB carb owner that's happy with their carb. It's 2 yrs old with no problems & very good performance.
Installed a $6 manual hand choke last week and now even starts easy when sitting for a week.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut ... there are also those that say they have NEVER been screwed over by Frank Mitchell or Jim Pattie 
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: JohnRR]
#443800
08/24/09 02:38 AM
08/24/09 02:38 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,810
Sobieski Wi
bee1971
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,810
Sobieski Wi
|
I can pull some threads if need bee - Just let me know , and trust me i talk from experience with the 1407/1411 paper weight about the off idle - And then if you fix that you still have a carb that doesnt perform PERIOD !!!
Some great quotes
Now, in regards to the 750 version, just SAY NO! The carb is a slug. It has the worst signal of anything we have ever tested/dynoed, and is just not an efficient or powerful carb. In plain words it is a . censored
The 500-600cfm versions are great, the 750cfm is unworthy of being on an engine.
Best Regards,
Sam - Pres/CEO
Century Performance Center, Inc.
383 Dyno in "Moparts Tech Archives"
All the aftermarket carbs tested ran fine with the stock calibration except one...the EDELBROCK 750, #1407. this one ran very poorly.....it didnt really do anything well. it was just flat out lean everywhere. idle, part throttle cruise, WOT...and it didnt like to take a load at all. when getting ready to start a pull and going to full power, the motor would fall right on its face, then try to recover....finally recover, and then you could start the pull.
i found this to be pretty interesting because i also had on hand a Carter AFB 750 manual choke version which ran perfectly fine everywhere.
decent throttle response, good part throttle cruise A/F ratios, decent idle A/F ratio with the mixture screws out only 2 turns, and the WOT A/F ratio was right where it should be, and it had a pretty flat fuel curve as well.
i was running short on time, so i just continued on my testing of other things. when i was done for the night i pulled apart the Ebrock carb to see if someone had recalibrated it. this is not a new carb, but was pulled from my friends 396 Chevy yesterday morning. he's been running on the street, and didnt really indicate there was any kinds of problems with it, but there was an indication that another friend of his may have changed some jets or something.
well....that was not the case. it had all the stock jets, rods, and springs, and had no dirt or debris inside. the calibration was just that far off from ALL the other aftermarket carbs.
IMO, the Ebrock carbs are set up for motors that are much milder than what most people are building. well, most people i know anyway
anyway....back to the trenches.....
1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: MY340]
#443804
08/24/09 09:48 AM
08/24/09 09:48 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
|
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
|
Quote:
You guys are so funny!
Maybe my Edelbrock 750 thinks it's a Holley? 
You know like a wolf in sheeps clothing.
Plus my mild combo runs high 12's with slicks and as the previous owner included several times slips with the receipts.
put a holley 750DP and it'll run 2 tenths better....maybe more. If it doesn't I'll buy you a case of your favorite beverage.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: 70Sbird]
#443806
08/24/09 11:39 AM
08/24/09 11:39 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
Wow lots of activity here over the weekend!
I ran the car on Sunday, intake vacuum was 8-9 inches of vacuum at 700 rpm low idle. I moved the mixture screws out an additional 1/2 turn (now 3 turns out), and switched the vacuum advance to the full vacuum fitting, instead of the ported fitting, and the car seemed to run slightly better, but not much. I've been reading the Edelbrock manual and looking for direction there as well, lots of info and combo's for tuning, but no mention (That I found) on off-idle changes.
I would put it back to the ported position or you'll have to much timing when it's not needed .
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: MY340]
#443807
08/24/09 11:41 AM
08/24/09 11:41 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
You guys are so funny!
Maybe my Edelbrock 750 thinks it's a Holley?
You know like a wolf in sheeps clothing.
Plus my mild combo runs high 12's with slicks and as the previous owner included several times slips with the receipts.
don't take offense , sounds like you PURCHASED it setup , or have you confirmed that the carb is BOX STOCK ?? I'm curious , I played with one for a bit , it never ran right , finally switched to a rebuilt original number correct AVS and the car ran so much better .
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: JohnRR]
#443808
08/24/09 11:56 AM
08/24/09 11:56 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
|
I'ev never had one I couldn't tune. Some people give up. Some people don't like not throwing more fuel on it. I've had bad carbs from Demon/BG, Holley, Edelbrock, and Carter. They could all be tuned into good performers when the time and knowledge were applied. It sounds to me like you need to first examine the timing curve and setup on that engine. If it's totally stock... Does it have points? If so, you start with setting point dwell. Then set initial timing, then seet total timing, then tune the carb for idle quality and speed, then get the strip kit and tune for drivability. If you don't go in that order, you've got a good chance of getting PO'd and giving up because you WILL have to go back and fix what was overlooked. Holleys run well because they throw fuel at everything until it runs good. Or feels like it to the driver. "Well Tuned" doesn't care who made the carb.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: JohnRR]
#443809
08/24/09 12:05 PM
08/24/09 12:05 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
|
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
|
Quote:
Quote:
Wow lots of activity here over the weekend!
I ran the car on Sunday, intake vacuum was 8-9 inches of vacuum at 700 rpm low idle. I moved the mixture screws out an additional 1/2 turn (now 3 turns out), and switched the vacuum advance to the full vacuum fitting, instead of the ported fitting, and the car seemed to run slightly better, but not much. I've been reading the Edelbrock manual and looking for direction there as well, lots of info and combo's for tuning, but no mention (That I found) on off-idle changes.
I would put it back to the ported position or you'll have to much timing when it's not needed .
I disco the vac advance completely and lock it in full at 36-38* at 2400 and be done with it. If you want a "stockish" look use the 800 thunder.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#443812
08/24/09 11:55 PM
08/24/09 11:55 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Wow lots of activity here over the weekend!
I ran the car on Sunday, intake vacuum was 8-9 inches of vacuum at 700 rpm low idle. I moved the mixture screws out an additional 1/2 turn (now 3 turns out), and switched the vacuum advance to the full vacuum fitting, instead of the ported fitting, and the car seemed to run slightly better, but not much. I've been reading the Edelbrock manual and looking for direction there as well, lots of info and combo's for tuning, but no mention (That I found) on off-idle changes.
I would put it back to the ported position or you'll have to much timing when it's not needed .
I disco the vac advance completely and lock it in full at 36-38* at 2400 and be done with it. If you want a "stockish" look use the 800 thunder.
Why throw away MPG? 
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Mike H]
#443813
08/24/09 11:57 PM
08/24/09 11:57 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
|
Quote:
Would the 1406 have the same problems as the 1407?
I had one on a low po 383 and it was great. Ran very well all the way around. That was in the 69 RR vert that got such good mileage. If you have a hopped up engine I don't know, but others have said they have done ok for them.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#443814
08/25/09 06:02 AM
08/25/09 06:02 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
|
All of the Edelbrocks are typically lean once you get to the point of tuning the main fuel circuit. Regardless of cam, compression, gearing, convertor, or any differences in engine builds, I've never had to change squirtors on a Edelbrock or Carter. If you have one, get the timing curve set properly (and unless it's a full on race car you need a curve rather than a locked out set timing amount and should run a vacuum advance off the ported vacuum port) and get it idling right witht he right step up springs, jet/rod it right, and they will outperform almost any Holley or holley based product on a street car.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#443815
08/25/09 07:16 AM
08/25/09 07:16 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
|
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Wow lots of activity here over the weekend!
I ran the car on Sunday, intake vacuum was 8-9 inches of vacuum at 700 rpm low idle. I moved the mixture screws out an additional 1/2 turn (now 3 turns out), and switched the vacuum advance to the full vacuum fitting, instead of the ported fitting, and the car seemed to run slightly better, but not much. I've been reading the Edelbrock manual and looking for direction there as well, lots of info and combo's for tuning, but no mention (That I found) on off-idle changes.
I would put it back to the ported position or you'll have to much timing when it's not needed .
I disco the vac advance completely and lock it in full at 36-38* at 2400 and be done with it. If you want a "stockish" look use the 800 thunder.
Why throw away MPG?
hahaha MPG and a BB Mopar, I mean really...is it that important? if the car is tuned the vac advance isn't going to net you much better MPG if at all.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: moper]
#443816
08/25/09 07:59 AM
08/25/09 07:59 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
|
Quote:
All of the Edelbrocks are typically lean once you get to the point of tuning the main fuel circuit. Regardless of cam, compression, gearing, convertor, or any differences in engine builds, I've never had to change squirtors on a Edelbrock or Carter. If you have one, get the timing curve set properly (and unless it's a full on race car you need a curve rather than a locked out set timing amount and should run a vacuum advance off the ported vacuum port) and get it idling right witht he right step up springs, jet/rod it right, and they will outperform almost any Holley or holley based product on a street car.
the 1406 I put on my 360, stock long block with a comp XE262, headers, and RPM air gap was way rich with stock jetting. I actually had to drop the secondaries down to .089 jets, put the original secondary jets in the primaries (IIRC they're .092") and go one step richer on the cruise needle (OOTB is .075x.047, I used the .073x.047), and I needed to drill the primary plates with 1/8" holes to lean the idle out to reasonable (~14:1). all tuning was done with a friend's LM1 wideband 02 sensor. I used the stiffest step up springs, and I used the middle hole on the acc pump for summer, usually had to go to the closest hole in the winter.
put the same carb on my rebuilt 318 a couple weeks ago--stock long block, mag heads, 259/259 adv, 208/208 roller cam, headers, same intake, that setup was way lean, took it back to stock jetting, is running much better, should get my friend's LM1 tomorrow to fine tune it. I do have a slight bog nailing it, even with the acc pump on the nearest hole.
personally, IMHO you really need a WB O2 sensor to fine tune a street carb, otherwise you're doing a lot of stabs in the dark, especially when tuning the transitions between different circuits, and may be going in the wrong direction.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: patrick]
#443817
08/25/09 08:32 AM
08/25/09 08:32 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
|
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
|
"personally, IMHO you really need a WB O2 sensor to fine tune a street carb, otherwise you're doing a lot of stabs in the dark, especially when tuning the transitions between different circuits, and may be going in the wrong direction".
puuuuufst, no need to spend hundreds of dollars on something like that for a mild street car. get a vacuum gauge and a good timing light. That's all you need. If you choose to stay w/ the Eddy carb buy the tuning kit. The Eddy 750 will never be as good as the 850DP. Personally I'd use the 850 and get a drop base so you can use your air cleaner assembly. I'd also turn the fuel line backwards towards the fire wall, or get the split fuel line. It's not rocket science.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#443818
08/25/09 10:28 AM
08/25/09 10:28 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 697
Central IL
70Sbird
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 697
Central IL
|
I had a little time last night after the kids were in bed and decided to check out the rods and springs in my carb to see what there. Imagine my surprise when I found .070/.047 rods and plain springs! those rods only show up on my 1411 tuning chart with a jet change going in the lean direction. There should have been .075/.047 and orange springs as the "factory" calibration. Apparently this carb has been "tweaked" previously. I suppose now I'll tear it apart tonight and see what jets I have as well, then get a baseline to begin tuning. Note to self - even if you know the person that sells you a carb and have added a rebuild kit "just in case" verify the setup! 
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: 70Sbird]
#443819
08/25/09 11:26 AM
08/25/09 11:26 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
|
It may not be the person selling it. I have seen factory out of the box ones with the wrong parts in them. This is why you look and tune, rather than throw parts at it until you get lucky, borke, or angry enough to say "it's fine!" 
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#443820
08/25/09 12:00 PM
08/25/09 12:00 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
|
Quote:
"personally, IMHO you really need a WB O2 sensor to fine tune a street carb, otherwise you're doing a lot of stabs in the dark, especially when tuning the transitions between different circuits, and may be going in the wrong direction".
puuuuufst, no need to spend hundreds of dollars on something like that for a mild street car. get a vacuum gauge and a good timing light. That's all you need. If you choose to stay w/ the Eddy carb buy the tuning kit. The Eddy 750 will never be as good as the 850DP. Personally I'd use the 850 and get a drop base so you can use your air cleaner assembly. I'd also turn the fuel line backwards towards the fire wall, or get the split fuel line. It's not rocket science.
to tune a car to run good, no. to FINE TUNE (get it running good and optimize mileage) yes. if you tune for max vaccuum, 9 times out of 10, I bet it's tuned slightly fat, and you're sacraficing some fuel mileage. for someone who drives his car every day, a 2-3mpg difference can add up relatively quick.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#443823
08/25/09 08:19 PM
08/25/09 08:19 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Wow lots of activity here over the weekend!
I ran the car on Sunday, intake vacuum was 8-9 inches of vacuum at 700 rpm low idle. I moved the mixture screws out an additional 1/2 turn (now 3 turns out), and switched the vacuum advance to the full vacuum fitting, instead of the ported fitting, and the car seemed to run slightly better, but not much. I've been reading the Edelbrock manual and looking for direction there as well, lots of info and combo's for tuning, but no mention (That I found) on off-idle changes.
I would put it back to the ported position or you'll have to much timing when it's not needed .
I disco the vac advance completely and lock it in full at 36-38* at 2400 and be done with it. If you want a "stockish" look use the 800 thunder.
Why throw away MPG?
hahaha MPG and a BB Mopar, I mean really...is it that important? if the car is tuned the vac advance isn't going to net you much better MPG if at all.
You must be really rich. If I took the vac advance off I would have easily went from 15 MPG to 12 or less real quick. In other words, 20% less, if not more.
I drove over 6000 miles in the RR this summer.
I'll let you do the math. Remember to take off the dollar or so that the hose cost to run the advance.
I'm really not sure why ANYBODY would say it isn't worth it to run on a street car. It is easy to adjust so ????You wouldn't tell somebody to leave the wrong jets in a carb, why is vac advance any different?
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#443824
08/25/09 08:53 PM
08/25/09 08:53 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
|
Quote:
I'm really not sure why ANYBODY would say it isn't worth it to run on a street car. It is easy to adjust so ????You wouldn't tell somebody to leave the wrong jets in a carb, why is vac advance any different?
Just different people, different opinions of "tuned", and different levels of knowledge.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#443825
08/25/09 09:16 PM
08/25/09 09:16 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,760
Port Alberni, British Columbia
MoparDonny
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,760
Port Alberni, British Columbia
|
Quote:
If I took the vac advance off I would have easily went from 15 MPG to 12 or less real quick. In other words, 20% less, if not more.
I drove over 6000 miles in the RR this summer.
I'll let you do the math. Remember to take off the dollar or so that the hose cost to run the advance.
I'm really not sure why ANYBODY would say it isn't worth it to run on a street car. It is easy to adjust so ????You wouldn't tell somebody to leave the wrong jets in a carb, why is vac advance any different?
Exactly !!! 
I actually modified ( drilled ) my primary metering block on my 800 Double Pumper so I have a vacuum advance. Works Great. Last Highway drive I did got me 15 mpg with my 3.91's and 235/60/14's.
You don't get any kind of mileage when you're turning 3000 RPM at 55mph so I'd say I'm doing OK.
Don.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: MoparDonny]
#443826
08/26/09 01:53 PM
08/26/09 01:53 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 697
Central IL
70Sbird
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 697
Central IL
|
OK, I got the carb off last night and pulled the jets out to verify the base combo I'm working with. As I was surprised with the rods being changed, so were the jets. I had .104 main jets, combining this with the rods, I found this combination on the Edelbrock calibration chart and this combo represente two steps lean on the cruise mode and three steps lean on the power mode!  Now, would that cause a lean off idle condition? I'm probably going to start from scratch at this point and begin as recommended above, new spark plugs and reset base timing (MP electronic ignition so no points)and set the carb at baseline, or possibly a step or two rich. or is there a better place to start other than the baseline factory settings? I'm still thinking I probably need to move up to the .043 acc pump nozzles from the .035s on there now
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#443827
08/26/09 05:45 PM
08/26/09 05:45 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,150
lewiston, ID
cornucopia
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,150
lewiston, ID
|
Quote:
Not that it can't work, but you are in a long list of guys that have faught with the Eddy 750 off-idle stumble. Do a search on it, you'll be amazed. I tried every setting and rod / jet combo immaginable. Tried two different carbs, same issue with both. Went to a Holley 750, Sooooo much better.
I agree %100! my 750 eddy was stumble city. I tried everything. fixed it by buying a 3310 holley...
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: 70Sbird]
#443828
08/26/09 05:50 PM
08/26/09 05:50 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
|
Some basic numbers...
Initial timing should be 12-16°. You will have to limit the mechnical advance in the distributor which is adjustable. You want a mechanical advance of 20°. So your total, checked with either a tming light that has the advancing function, or a timing tape installed on the balancer will be 32-36. This is with the vacuum advance disconnected and the port on the carb plugged.
On the carb, I would use the tuning book and go two steps richer on power and cruise from the correct factory installed jet and rod combo. Use the colored springs that match the vacuum level on a gage when idling in gear after the timing is set. You will be readjusting the idle speed, mixture, and probably the step up springs will be changed again when everything else is close. If once you have the rest dialed in, it still has a hesitation, then you can add the squirtor. The deal is tho... squirtor have NO effect on fuel volume being sprayed. Only the time it takes to shoot it all out. Going larger may cover the bog but it will be lean at part throttle acceleration because the accelerator pump will be empty before the air has picked up enough speed thru the boosters to draw fuel properly. This is why I use them as a last resort, and why I almost never have to change them. Even on Holleys. Just stay focussed and you will not believe how much nicer an old "non-rocket science" car can run.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: 70Sbird]
#443829
08/26/09 07:56 PM
08/26/09 07:56 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,270
Missouri
MY340
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,270
Missouri
|
Quote:
OK, I got the carb off last night and pulled the jets out to verify the base combo I'm working with. As I was surprised with the rods being changed, so were the jets. I had .104 main jets, combining this with the rods, I found this combination on the Edelbrock calibration chart and this combo represente two steps lean on the cruise mode and three steps lean on the power mode!
Now, would that cause a lean off idle condition? I'm probably going to start from scratch at this point and begin as recommended above, new spark plugs and reset base timing (MP electronic ignition so no points)and set the carb at baseline, or possibly a step or two rich.
or is there a better place to start other than the baseline factory settings?
I'm still thinking I probably need to move up to the .043 acc pump nozzles from the .035s on there now
That's way too lean for a BB Mopar!!! Somebody might have been running that carb on a stock Chevy SB!!! Like I said before any carb needs to be properly setup for the motor/combo.
The stock 113/107 jets, 71/47 rods and .035 squirters on the 1407 Eddy 750 cfm carb is just about perfect for my mildly built 360. Probably alittle too rich as my MPG isn't great but I'll coorect that as time permits. I had too much pump shot and went to the middle hole plus bumped intial timing up 4 degrees. NO HESITATION on my carb. Sorry all you Holley guys!
1970 FE5 Duster 360/904/3.91's SOLD
1973 TB3 SpaceDuster 340/4spd/4.10's SOLD
Moparless for now but when the opportunity is right I'll have another one.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: MY340]
#443830
08/26/09 09:20 PM
08/26/09 09:20 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,760
Port Alberni, British Columbia
MoparDonny
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,760
Port Alberni, British Columbia
|
I thought he said it was a 1411 carb not a 1407. 1411's are leaner to start with. From Edelbrock: EDELBROCK PERFORMER SERIES 750 CFM, ELECTRIC CHOKE CARBURETORS CALIBRATED FOR ECONOMY WITH PERFORMANCE Designed for 402 c.i.d. and larger engines with Edelbrock Performer manifolds and other brands of similar design, these carbs are recommended only for stock to Performer level applications. They are not recommended for use on RPM or Torker II intake manifolds. Calibrated 2% leaner than #1407. Provides excellent fuel economy when used on 454 c.i.d. Chevy and 460 c.i.d. Ford with Performer manifold. Includes both timed and full vacuum ports for ignition advance. Comes with: Metering Jets - Primary .110, Secondary .107; Metering Rods - .075 x .047; Step-Up Spring - orange (5" Hg). With that, I had borrowed a 1407 from a friend a few years ago and out of the box I hated it. Maybe it needed some tuning, maybe not. It bogged, had poopy throttle response, I don't think the full throttle power was very good either. He runs that carb on a warmed 340 and says he loves it . It runs 13.20 in a 69 dart. Just a story i thought I'd share, I don't mind the Eddy's at all but I don't run one on my stuff.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Ray440]
#443831
08/27/09 11:12 PM
08/27/09 11:12 PM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,558
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
|
Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,558
Downtown Roebuck Ont
|
Quote:
Has anyone tried this before? Below the accelerator discharge squirter there is a small weight and a check ball. Buddy of mine had removed the weight and his stumble is gone. Leave the check ball in.
I think that is the same cure Herb McCandless talked about at his Carlisle seminar.
Kevin
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Twostick]
#443832
08/28/09 08:15 AM
08/28/09 08:15 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,810
Sobieski Wi
bee1971
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,810
Sobieski Wi
|
I remember talking to Edelbrock a few years back , there tech line , on that very same subject Thats when they sent me the larger squirter for free - Still didnt solve the problem But interesting to say the least - I gave up many moons ago - Bottom line in the end , like i stated earlier , even if you got the stumble fixed , and threw every spring ,metering rod , jet , squirter blah blah blah at it , you still have a carb that doesnt perform across the board Did anyone read my last post about the dyno #s ??? And you dont realize it until you switch over to a Holley or a Edelbrock 800 series Man there is so may threads on the subject - Enjoy https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1
1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: bee1971]
#443833
08/28/09 09:43 AM
08/28/09 09:43 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,810
Sobieski Wi
bee1971
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,810
Sobieski Wi
|
Some more info that i ran into in the past
The edelbrock carbs have a lean off idle problem, i only recommend using a 650 or lower cfm edelbrock on any application because of this but:
the idle channel restriction (ICR) is too small for the idle system so the idle system runs out of fuel flow before you get into the main circuit. look in the carb owners manual and you can see where it is. we remove the brass restriction over the ICR and then enlarge the ICR a few thousands of a inch at a time to make the idle and off idle system more active. this workd very well on the 600 performer and 650 cfm thunder but on the 750 it only helps since the rest of the idle system passages are too small. these changes have been done to the 800 cfm edelbrocks but it is not enough to solve the problem (in my opinion)if you want to see pictures of this the july 2006 issue of Corvette Fever has a article called tuning to perfection with more detail in it.
you can see this lean at off idle condition with tools such as a wide band oxygen sensor based air/fuel meter or a 5 gas exhaust gas analyzer.
i hope this helps henry @ oles carb
1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: bee1971]
#443834
08/28/09 09:49 AM
08/28/09 09:49 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 288
Birmingham, England
Mick70RR
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 288
Birmingham, England
|
That's one of the mods I tried on my 1407 before I god rid of it. Helped a little but it didn't get rid of the off-idle bog.
1970 Road Runner
505 cid
MCH CNC ported Stealth heads
MP 528 camshaft
4 speed
GV overdrive
11.98 @ 117 on street treads
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Dougsmopars]
#443838
08/28/09 09:45 PM
08/28/09 09:45 PM
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,031
South Jersey
kruger
Yours Too!
|
Yours Too!
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,031
South Jersey
|
Quote:
I only have 2 thoughts on "there's a reson why performence cars use Holley" 1 is there quicker to mess with at the track, second when i go to the drags i see more Demons and Barry Grants and other Holley Knock off's then Holley's. And i asume your a newbie to Mopar. For many years Mopar used Carters on 90% of there muscle cars. There are 2 camps here. Those that love Holleys and those who don't. I really wish you Holley guys would get off it. If you like them more power to you. There are just as many guys out there who have had plenty of trouble with Holleys. There is no such thing as a perfect carb. Every car needs to get the carb set up for that engine.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Dougsmopars]
#443839
08/29/09 09:14 AM
08/29/09 09:14 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
|
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
|
Quote:
I only have 2 thoughts on "there's a reson why performence cars use Holley" 1 is there quicker to mess with at the track, second when i go to the drags i see more Demons and Barry Grants and other Holley Knock off's then Holley's. And i asume your a newbie to Mopar. For many years Mopar used Carters on 90% of there muscle cars. There are 2 camps here. Those that love Holleys and those who don't. I really wish you Holley guys would get off it. If you like them more power to you. There are just as many guys out there who have had plenty of trouble with Holleys. There is no such thing as a perfect carb. Every car needs to get the carb set up for that engine.
no I'm not new, Just stating a fact. They work better. Mopar used carters because they were probaby cheaper. Decent carb, but I've used both and tuned a bunch. You just get much more out of a holley.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#443840
08/29/09 09:32 AM
08/29/09 09:32 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
There's a reason all performace cars use holleys.....
Care to expand on that statement, all muscle car era performance cars , performance cars before the fuel injection era or current day not new performance cars ?
One thing you'll get from moparts is people telling you what to do instead of answering your question .
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#443841
08/30/09 01:10 AM
08/30/09 01:10 AM
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,031
South Jersey
kruger
Yours Too!
|
Yours Too!
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,031
South Jersey
|
Quote:
Quote:
I only have 2 thoughts on "there's a reson why performence cars use Holley" 1 is there quicker to mess with at the track, second when i go to the drags i see more Demons and Barry Grants and other Holley Knock off's then Holley's. And i asume your a newbie to Mopar. For many years Mopar used Carters on 90% of there muscle cars. There are 2 camps here. Those that love Holleys and those who don't. I really wish you Holley guys would get off it. If you like them more power to you. There are just as many guys out there who have had plenty of trouble with Holleys. There is no such thing as a perfect carb. Every car needs to get the carb set up for that engine.
no I'm not new, Just stating a fact. They work better. Mopar used carters because they were probaby cheaper. Decent carb, but I've used both and tuned a bunch. You just get much more out of a holley.
oooops!Sorry Swingin72,I know your not new to Mopars.
I use both Holleys and Eddy's,though I dont use the Eddy's for street apps I do use the 750 Eddy's on a crossram with no problems(WOT).
Guess it just comes down to preference not fact?
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: kruger]
#443842
08/30/09 03:28 AM
08/30/09 03:28 AM
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,920
Joplin, MO USA
Robbins
master
|
master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,920
Joplin, MO USA
|
Well, I hoping that mine will work out good for my 446 in my 86 RC. It has a four hole 1 in spacer under it.
Moparlee
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#443843
08/30/09 10:46 AM
08/30/09 10:46 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
|
master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
|
Quote:
no I'm not new, Just stating a fact. They work better. Mopar used carters because they were probaby cheaper. Decent carb, but I've used both and tuned a bunch. You just get much more out of a holley.
Lets clarify: we're not talking about Carters, we're not even talking about all Eddy performer series. This is an issue that is specific to the 1407 / 1411 Edelbrock 750cfm carbs. The 625's and the 800 AVS Thunders seem to get rave reviews. These 750 performers are the ones that seem to have issues. As far as Carters and others, that's purely preference, as I've never heard any evidence that there was real issues with any of the others, like we see in the 750's.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#443844
08/31/09 09:06 AM
08/31/09 09:06 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,270
Missouri
MY340
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,270
Missouri
|
Am I still the only guy that likes his 1407 Eddy? FWIW I also use a 4-hole 1" spacer under the carb. Hooked up the manual choke and now even cold starts are easy.  My last post on this thread. 
1970 FE5 Duster 360/904/3.91's SOLD
1973 TB3 SpaceDuster 340/4spd/4.10's SOLD
Moparless for now but when the opportunity is right I'll have another one.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#443846
08/31/09 01:29 PM
08/31/09 01:29 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
They are fine carbs, just not for racing
Don't tell that to the guys that race NSS with MAXWEDGE cars
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: JohnRR]
#443847
08/31/09 01:47 PM
08/31/09 01:47 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
|
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
|
Quote:
Quote:
They are fine carbs, just not for racing
Don't tell that to the guys that race NSS with MAXWEDGE cars
again they use TWO! and if they were allowed to run TWO DP's they'd be 4 tenths faster.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#443848
08/31/09 02:11 PM
08/31/09 02:11 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
They are fine carbs, just not for racing
Don't tell that to the guys that race NSS with MAXWEDGE cars
again they use TWO! and if they were allowed to run TWO DP's they'd be 4 tenths faster.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: JohnRR]
#443849
08/31/09 02:15 PM
08/31/09 02:15 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
|
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
They are fine carbs, just not for racing
Don't tell that to the guys that race NSS with MAXWEDGE cars
again they use TWO! and if they were allowed to run TWO DP's they'd be 4 tenths faster.
Hey John why not ask one of them. Kevin races that class and would love to run a pair of DP's.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: JohnRR]
#443850
08/31/09 05:13 PM
08/31/09 05:13 PM
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,031
South Jersey
kruger
Yours Too!
|
Yours Too!
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,031
South Jersey
|
Quote:
Quote:
They are fine carbs, just not for racing
Don't tell that to the guys that race NSS with MAXWEDGE cars
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#443851
09/01/09 08:34 AM
09/01/09 08:34 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
They are fine carbs, just not for racing
Don't tell that to the guys that race NSS with MAXWEDGE cars
again they use TWO! and if they were allowed to run TWO DP's they'd be 4 tenths faster.
Hey John why not ask one of them. Kevin races that class and would love to run a pair of DP's.
no reason to as it , like most if not all of your replies in this thread is NOT ANSWERING the persons question and instead telling the person what he/she should do instead of helping to answer the question ASKED , YES it's really that simple .
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#443853
09/01/09 09:32 AM
09/01/09 09:32 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,179
S.E. Conn
Hoof Hearted
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,179
S.E. Conn
|
Quote: "I did answer his question, want to get rid of the stumble get a holley...lol"
lol? really? Are you 12 years old?
And we all know holleys suck.
oh yeah, lol.
Moron.
2005 300C Hemi
2014 Ram ProMaster 2500
I Rekey, Repin old Chrysler locks and cut keys by code
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Hoof Hearted]
#443854
09/01/09 09:49 AM
09/01/09 09:49 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
|
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
|
Quote:
Quote: "I did answer his question, want to get rid of the stumble get a holley...lol"
lol? really? Are you 12 years old?
And we all know holleys suck.
oh yeah, lol.
get over yourself Hoof...It's called humor.
Moron.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: JohnRR]
#443855
09/01/09 11:15 AM
09/01/09 11:15 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
master
|
master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
|
Quote:
no reason to as it , like most if not all of your replies in this thread is NOT ANSWERING the persons question and instead telling the person what he/she should do instead of helping to answer the question ASKED , YES it's really that simple .
This thread is getting closer to the 'just get a stroker crank' mentality.
Parts I seek:
driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set
16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better.
69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields
Send a PM.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Fury Fan]
#443856
09/01/09 11:17 AM
09/01/09 11:17 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,942
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
Quote:
no reason to as it , like most if not all of your replies in this thread is NOT ANSWERING the persons question and instead telling the person what he/she should do instead of helping to answer the question ASKED , YES it's really that simple .
This thread is getting closer to the 'just get a stroker crank' mentality.
ding ding ding .... WINNER
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: JohnRR]
#443857
09/01/09 01:11 PM
09/01/09 01:11 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,810
Sobieski Wi
bee1971
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,810
Sobieski Wi
|
Yep - We should keep it pinned
That way , when the subject comes up 1,000 more times in the next year , on how to get rid of my off idle stumble/hesitation/flat spot/carb doesnt perform on the street/dyno 1407/1411 issues , we dont have to hash it out again - I posted some good threads within this thread , along with the good info already posted
I dont know why people waste there time and money with the 1407/1411 750cfm Series when the Edelbrock 800cfm Performer Series is flat out a 100% improvement INTERNALLY , yes in the internal design of the carb itself !!! And then the newer Edelbrock AVS Series is just an added bonus - Or like mentioned buy a Holley
1407/1411 JUNK JUNK JUNK JUNK JUNK JUNK JUNK !!!!!
1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#443860
09/01/09 11:17 PM
09/01/09 11:17 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
MNobody
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
|
Quote:
How is the OP doing with his carb? 
He probably gave up because of the
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#443862
09/02/09 10:42 AM
09/02/09 10:42 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 697
Central IL
70Sbird
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 697
Central IL
|
Quote:
How is the OP doing with his carb?
Thanks for the concern!
The carb is still on the workbench. As I posted before, all of the jets and metering rods were WAY to the lean side. I ordered the tuning/calibration kit and it has already arrived at my house. I travel quite a bit during the week, so I won't have a chance to put it back together until Saturday. Last weekend I changed the plugs and am getting ready for a baseline test , then on to modifications!
Thanks again to all who have contributed with good tips and direction!
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: kruger]
#443864
09/03/09 04:10 PM
09/03/09 04:10 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 216
united kingdom
Simonic
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 216
united kingdom
|
Yeah,i'd also love to hear about your progress,i was running a 750 edelbrock on my car last year,i got some great advice from 'rapid robert' and some others,my thread is listed above from bee1971 i think. I got much improvement from the 750  but in the end went to a thunder 800 avs....
Keeping the Bee Buzzin'
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Dougsmopars]
#443866
09/05/09 01:21 PM
09/05/09 01:21 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,066
Eugene, Oregon
minivan
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,066
Eugene, Oregon
|
Quote:
I listened to the Edelbrock tech guy and installed the 43 squirters. Put back the stock jets and rods. Stumble is gone. Runs super. Went with yellow springs as i have just barely 10 inches of vac at idle in park. They were right, off idle stumble is a lean condition, needs more squirter. I guess thats why they have a tech line.
So are these larger "squirters" or larger pumps?? Do you get more volume with these over more pressure?
I upped my carter, on my 440, to the hole in the arm, closest to the piston and its better, but still seems to have some initial bog in it.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - UPDATE FIXED!
[Re: 70Sbird]
#443869
09/08/09 12:04 PM
09/08/09 12:04 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,810
Sobieski Wi
bee1971
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,810
Sobieski Wi
|
1 - Edelbrock 1407 750cfm New from Summit - $259
2 - Squirters/Nozzle Kit - $23.50
3 - Calibration Kit - $46.75
4 - On the phone with Edelbrock tech guy - I get my free 43 squirter in the mail a week later , but i already told them i tried that route/bought nozzles (Read all my earlier posts)
5 - Top Hole in plunger gives you the most volume , lower holes give you a faster/quicker shot of fuel
6 - Drill this Drill that blah blah blah
7 - Countless hours working on carb and money spent
8 - Try different 4 hole spacers / Open spacers blah blah blah - Hell i spent more money on tax and or shipping charges
1 - Edelbrock 1412 800cfm New at Summit $299
PRICELESS
Sold my 1407 on Ebay - Edelbrock and many others on this forum said try the 800 series , you will love the difference
Performance out of the box - PRICELESS
Plug color PERFECT - Stumble NO
And i still have all the springs/nozzles/calibration kit if i still need it
Funny thing is , you think you have it fixed , and running good (And yes i also had mine about 95% fixed , and most of that time was trying to get some decent plug color , carb was so damn lean out of the box brand new , i think i went 12% richer across the board to get some color on my plugs , but still wasnt good enough after countless hours and money spent) , until you bolt something else on that actually PERFORMS AND RUNS PERFECT - The Holley 3310 that i had/tried/laying around ran flawless also - I wanted to reach that performance level with the 1407 - HA HA HA
UNTIL I BOLTED ON THE EDELBROCK 1412 OUT OF THE BOX
You dont know what you got until its gone - Yep i miss it like my ex
1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - UPDATE FIXED!
[Re: 70Sbird]
#443871
09/16/09 04:49 PM
09/16/09 04:49 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
|
Quote:
Well, I finally got to spend some time on the car this weekend. I got the Edelbrock calibration kit out, and put the jets back to the stock size, drilled out the pump nozzles to .040, used metering rods to go one step rich, and bumped my timing 5 degrees, The stumble is 95% gone!
I think with some more experimentation with the springs and maybe go to the .043 nozzles it will be completely gone.
I am now very happy with the way the car runs, and thanks again to all who posted.
did you keep or remove the little weight on top of the check ball that's under the nozzles? I'm fine tuning my 600 on my 318, and removing the weight took away about 80% of the stumble, so I think I'm going to open up the nozzles a bit...just wondering if I should put the weight back in.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - UPDATE FIXED!
[Re: patrick]
#443872
09/16/09 10:15 PM
09/16/09 10:15 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 350
CT USA
Nick Mineau
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 350
CT USA
|
I HAD THE SAME PROBLEM on my mild 440 after chasing it for 1 year and trying 3 diffrent carbs including demon and holley and edelbrock which did the best i found it to be a intake manfold problem. i had oringaly blocked the heat crossovers on my ch4b and it caused the fuel to not atomise. i took the crossover block out and havent had ANY problems sense. so if its blocked fix it. old man mopar wouldn't have a heat crossover if he dident need it. is the problem worse with a cold engine if so it means it gets better with heat. so heat the intake!!!!!
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - UPDATE FIXED!
[Re: Dougsmopars]
#443875
09/17/09 08:53 PM
09/17/09 08:53 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 69
Menomonie,wi
menomoniemopars
member
|
member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 69
Menomonie,wi
|
ok not really a flap ,but its weighted and usually it is too heavy and flips open to fast or not fast enough causing a stumble.. By Grinding off some weight of it u can control it better, but it takes some guess work pretty much, just easier to get a 800 avs as that is adjustable
Last edited by menomoniemopars; 09/17/09 09:00 PM.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: Dougsmopars]
#443876
09/18/09 10:12 PM
09/18/09 10:12 PM
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
@#$%&*!
New user name, Same old jerk!
|
New user name, Same old jerk!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
|
I'm glad to hear you've got it fixed. I agree on the lean condition but I'm not entirely convinced of the way of fixing it. What I do is ar a warm idle, shut the engine off, count to 5 (or 10, doesn't matter) and turn the key to crank it. If it doesn't start right up without touching the throttle, the idle isn't rich enough. You should be able to richen the idle via the screws until the idle suffers, if you can't do that you need to richen the primary jet/rod combo. Believe it or not, that affects the range of the idle mix adjustment. What happens is, if the idle is lean, all that lean mix in the intake is sucked into the cylinders immediately when you crack the throttle. The accel. pump circuit is there to richen the sudden rush of air through the carb, not fatten up the mixture already in tne intake. That said, a big squirt can help cover up the other problem. If your primary mix is lean it'll be weak after the pump shot has passed and power and mileage will suffer because you'll need more throttle to accelerate the way you want. Also, a big squirt will waste fuel if it isn't really needed once the rest of the fuel curve is dialed in. Quote:
I listened to the Edelbrock tech guy and installed the 43 squirters. Put back the stock jets and rods. Stumble is gone. Runs super. Went with yellow springs as i have just barely 10 inches of vac at idle in park. They were right, off idle stumble is a lean condition, needs more squirter. I guess thats why they have a tech line.
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - UPDATE FIXED!
[Re: patrick]
#443879
09/21/09 10:34 PM
09/21/09 10:34 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 697
Central IL
70Sbird
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 697
Central IL
|
did you keep or remove the little weight on top of the check ball that's under the nozzles? I'm fine tuning my 600 on my 318, and removing the weight took away about 80% of the stumble, so I think I'm going to open up the nozzles a bit...just wondering if I should put the weight back in.
Patrick,
I had no "weight" just a check ball and a spring holding the ball down, so when you opened the throttle the accel pump worked against the ball and spring (like a check valve) to shoot the fuel out of my drilled shooters.
I had the car out again his weekend.
I has never run as good as it does now
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - UPDATE FIXED!
[Re: 70Sbird]
#443880
09/22/09 08:01 AM
09/22/09 08:01 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
|
my 600 has a little .1"x.1"x.25" chunk of metal (the weight) sitting on top of the check valve. I put it back in when I drilled out the nozzles to .040, and I still have a little off idle stumble w/the acc pump set to the inside hole, so I'm going to pull it back out tonight and see if that takes care of it.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
|
|
|
Re: off idle stumble with Edelbrock 750 - suggestions?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1804587
04/16/15 12:08 AM
04/16/15 12:08 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,813
MI, usa
dvw
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,813
MI, usa
|
They are fine carbs, just not for racing Don't tell that to the guys that race NSS with MAXWEDGE cars <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh2.gif" alt="" /> again they use TWO! and if they were allowed to run TWO DP's they'd be 4 tenths faster. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif" alt="" /> Plenty of the N/SS cars run 2 850 Holleys. There are 4 of us in N/SS with similar combos as far as weight, cylinder head, cam , etc. They run 9.50 or 9.75 index with the Holleys. I'm the only one that still runs Eddy 750's. I run the 9.25 index. Car has been 1.29,9.12@147.7. Carbs are box stock with the chokes removed and rejeted. Squirters are stock. Doug
|
|
|
|
|
