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If you have 440 overheating problems,CAT ,long
#442064
08/18/09 03:21 PM
08/18/09 03:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
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You may want to read this post from http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/ member,it may apply. As some of you know my Project Car aka the Black Pig was recently completed and i am in the tuning de-bugging stage. I was having some serious heat issues and tried a bunch of things to help cool it down. It has plenty of cooling capacity with a new dual pass aluminum rad so i was pretty sure that wasn't the issue. The one thing that struck me as odd was the amount of radiant heat coming off the top of the engine....there was a ton of it. I've been around and tuned enough 440's to know that this wasn't normal. I started by replacing the 2000cfm pusher fan with a 3000cfm puller and that seemed to help somewhat but there was still lots of heat on the top end. I suspected the thermostat so i swapped in another one with basicly no change. I verified that both stats were functioning by testing them in boiling water and verified the open temps with my infrared heat gun...both worked fine. Basicly, it would idle at 190* but out on the road the temps would spike and bounce between 180* and 210* almost instantaneously....like over a 5 second time frame. Normally when engine temps spike out on the road it's an airflow/obstruction issue with the radiator but this was different. I finally reasoned that there was an air/steam pocket in the cooling system and as that pocket moved around and the hot steam hit the water temp sensors it was creating the spiked temps. This made sense and explained why the guages were reading the way they were but didn't explain why the air pockets were forming despite repeated attempts to purge the cooling system. The fact that the top end of the engine was so hot was a clue and i figured that the coolant wasn't being circulated fast enough so it was boiling inside the engine creating the air pockets....but why was this happening ? So, i'm on the phone discussing this problem with Dwayne @ Porter Racing heads and he's asking the usual questions : (1) enough rad....yep, dual pass aluminum (2) thermostat defective...nope, tried 2 of them and both open fully as they should (3) tuning issues...nope, timing is perfect and jetting is good, if anything it's slightly rich...not lean (4) vacuum leak....nope, checked that and vacuum is low but rock steady So as the conversation progresses Dwayne asks me what water pump and housing is on the engine....same one we dynoed the engine with ? Nope....I upgrade to a fancy aluminum CAT housing and pump. Dwayne proceeds to groan and suggests that i inspect the housing very closely. Why...the housing looks great and it's new and what the heck could be the problem ? Apparently he had one of those housings in the shop for a customer's FAST 511 build and didn't like what he saw. Externally the housing looks fine but the engine supply ports (lower openings) are very restrictive. You're kidding right....how can this be ? Nope...they are poorly designed and you'll see it yourself once you pull the pump housing and stick your fingers down the hole. So, over the w/e i pulled the rad and all the front acessories off the engine to have a peek...sure enough the lower (supply) ports were very small. I compared this to the stock housing and it was like night and day ! On the stock housing i could easily get 2 or more fingers all the way into the hole but on the Source housing i could only get one finger in maybe an inch and it was jammed....WTH !!! Looking at the two housings and comparing them it was apparant that the factory housing is a much better design ; the water passage makes a gentle radiused curve into the block and has lots of volume. The Source housing has a sharp 90* bend and the water passage is pinched off to maybe 20-30% of the inlet opening. Geez...what a PISS POOR design this POS is. That can't be good for coolant circulation and explains why the coolant was boiling inside the block....it was staying in there too long and forming steam pockets. So, i re-installed the factory housing with my favorite Milodon water pump and fired it up. The engine ran for 20 minutes and hit 180* sitting there idleing in 108*F ambiant air temps....today was the hottest day of the summer by far....a real scorcher. I immediately noticed that the high radiant heat off the top end of the engine was gone...despite this being the hottest day i had ran the engine so far this year....the last time i ran it the air temp was 80*F. Looking at the coolant flow across the top of the rad i noticed immediately that there was a huge difference in flow....the coolant was circualting like it should be instead of just casually coasting by...which it had been with the 440 Source pump & housing. Encouraged by this i decided to take the car out for a drive to see how it would run....if it could run ok in 108* temps and not overheat...what more could you ask....that's about as bad as it can get ! So off i go for a cruise and it's running great....at speed the temp drops to 175* and holds that temp no problem. I try it in some slow moving traffic and the temp creeps up to 195*....not bad ! As soon as the car begins moving again.....the guage drops back to 175-180 and holds....Right On !!!!! So, based on these results and close inspection of the 440 Source waterpump housing it's safe to assume that there is a major design flaw. If anybody is running this piece and has noticed increased temps and overheating you now know where to look. I have to give Kudo's to Dwayne for pointing me in the right direction. I hadn't considered that there was a problem with the design of this part because it visually looks good and i just assumed that the internal dimensions would be identical if not superior to the stock housing.....this is absolutely not the case. Hopefully this helps those members who may be experiencing overheat issues and if you are running one of these Chinese knockoffs my advice is to replace it asap....or at least compare it to the stock housing to see what you've got. Sorry for the long winded post but i wanted to give an accurate description of the troubleshooting process and how the problem was isolated and ultimately resolved.
Last edited by moparts; 08/19/09 03:06 PM.
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems.Long
[Re: dynamite]
#442067
08/18/09 04:06 PM
08/18/09 04:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,319
St. Louis, Mo
318 Stroker
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,319
St. Louis, Mo
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Quote:
Well thanks for the info,but,I have that same radient heat coming off the top of the motor..However I am using the stock cast water pump housing that ran that motor for over 150k miles..I have sat in bumper to bumper traffic for over 2 hours and it ran right at 185 dg..great right? It was in the 90's that day..problem is over 3000 rpm the temp just keeps climing..if I go back to slow traffic the temp drops down again..I can drive around town all day with no problem,,,get out on the Interstate I can watch the gauge go up until I gotta stop.Did the same stuff with the t-stats and different water pumps,,lower hoses.Heads off 4 times ....even a different block...std bore....yes it is hot .ck with temp gun..and it's really hot
If you don't have a spring in your lower rad. hose, I'd be willing to bet that's the problem.
My small block had the same issue. I installed a lower rad. hose, and it solved the problem... 
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems.Long
[Re: Stanton]
#442070
08/18/09 06:15 PM
08/18/09 06:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,478
the boonies
aarcuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,478
the boonies
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Quote:
HO LEE CRAP !! I just checked mine and can't believe how small the port is on the lower right side !!! Like ya said - can't fit one finger in there.
theres a joke in there somewhere but wow, whattaya know
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems.Long
[Re: challenger70]
#442074
08/19/09 11:16 AM
08/19/09 11:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,838
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,838
S.E. Michigan
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Quote:
anyone know if the MP aluminum ones are like this as well?
That would be "no".
The MP ones are made properly.
And to boot, they're cast and machined in California.
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems.Long
[Re: ZIPPY]
#442078
08/19/09 12:22 PM
08/19/09 12:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,646
Ontario,Canada
firefighter3931
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,646
Ontario,Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
anyone know if the MP aluminum ones are like this as well?
That would be "no".
The MP ones are made properly.
And to boot, they're cast and machined in California.
That would be correct....at least the older housings are fine. I spoke with Dwayne yesterday and he has a circa 1985 MP alum housing and looked it over while we were on the phone. Hopefully the QC on the newer housings is just as good....if Rich says they are i'll take his word for it.
The original post was mine made on another board...i was going to copy it here but 62 Max did it for me....thanks.
Hopefully others fighting this overheating issue using chinese knockoff housings will know where to look. There are a few members who will be swapping back to stock housings and Milodon pumps very shortly so we should have some backup reports very soon.
I'll be sure to report the findings here. 
Ron
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems.Long
[Re: firefighter3931]
#442079
08/19/09 12:30 PM
08/19/09 12:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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I used one. Once. Didn't like it for fitment issues. I won't use it again... The MP ones are consistently very good... the holes are where they need to be.. they aren't porous...lol.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,
[Re: 62maxwgn]
#442080
08/19/09 01:58 PM
08/19/09 01:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,548
Norwich CT USA
moparts
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,548
Norwich CT USA
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I am going to check the housing that I have now. This housing is a year or two old. Need to pull it off of the motor, only dyno time on it so far, which it did not over heat. If I remember correctly, when I got the housing and pump, It said CAT on the pump box, not sure on the housing 
Tom ,
2011 Ram 3500 C&C Diesel
2009 Challenger R/T
1971 Challenger Conv. 511/4 speed
1970 Challenger R/T 503/727
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,
[Re: 440sourcedotcom]
#442084
08/19/09 03:03 PM
08/19/09 03:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,548
Norwich CT USA
moparts
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,548
Norwich CT USA
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Quote:
Now people are saying their engine is running perfectly cool, but they are going to remove their water pump housing anyway because of this thread. Am I missing something? Is there really that much of a sheep mentality going on here?
I removed my housing because it was easy to pull and look at, no coolant, motor not hooked up and running but dyno time.
And yes I thought it was a cat housing, which everyone sells.
Now for the question if the housing has a small opening,
IT DOES, will it cause a cooling problem, seems to have for one. Not sure for anyone else
The narrow passage is only the feed ( back to the block ) lower passage on the passage side. All other passage look fine and closely match a factory housing.
Picture included
Tom ,
2011 Ram 3500 C&C Diesel
2009 Challenger R/T
1971 Challenger Conv. 511/4 speed
1970 Challenger R/T 503/727
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,
[Re: moparts]
#442085
08/19/09 03:04 PM
08/19/09 03:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,548
Norwich CT USA
moparts
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,548
Norwich CT USA
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And the drivers side , which looks fine
Tom ,
2011 Ram 3500 C&C Diesel
2009 Challenger R/T
1971 Challenger Conv. 511/4 speed
1970 Challenger R/T 503/727
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,440 Source,lon
[Re: 440sourcedotcom]
#442086
08/19/09 03:05 PM
08/19/09 03:05 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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Quote:
Now people are saying their engine is running perfectly cool, but they are going to remove their water pump housing anyway because of this thread. Am I missing something? Is there really that much of a sheep mentality going on here?
fwiw, (and i admit, probably nothing), i agree. if it ain't broke, don't fix it. if the pump is working, why replace it? if you ever do run into cooling issues, then you will at least have a place to start looking.
Quote:
Here goes another Moparts bash fest about our company and our products when in reality the entire mopar marketplace sells the exact same part from the exact same manufacturer, and has been for many years [list] . If anyone wonders why we are no longer active in the Moparts.com community, this is exactly why.
once again, i agree. 440 source is probably the most bashed vendor on this site, from what i have seen. although i have yet to see anyone bash them because a motor grenaded, which was then specifically traced to faulty parts. i think in the end i have only seen them bashed because the parts are manufactured overseas.
if their stuff works for you, buy it. if it doesn't, don't. but what is the point in bashing them or anyone else, beyond a one time report of bad parts or bad service?
kind of a drag when someone who has provided parts for so many members cars for such a long time doesn't even want to be a part of this community anymore. 
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,440 Source,lon
[Re: mickm]
#442087
08/19/09 03:20 PM
08/19/09 03:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 190
Wilmington,NC
I go fast
member
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member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 190
Wilmington,NC
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Quote:
Quote:
Now people are saying their engine is running perfectly cool, but they are going to remove their water pump housing anyway because of this thread. Am I missing something? Is there really that much of a sheep mentality going on here?
fwiw, (and i admit, probably nothing), i agree. if it ain't broke, don't fix it. if the pump is working, why replace it? if you ever do run into cooling issues, then you will at least have a place to start looking.
Quote:
Here goes another Moparts bash fest about our company and our products when in reality the entire mopar marketplace sells the exact same part from the exact same manufacturer, and has been for many years [list] . If anyone wonders why we are no longer active in the Moparts.com community, this is exactly why.
once again, i agree. 440 source is probably the most bashed vendor on this site, from what i have seen. although i have yet to see anyone bash them because a motor grenaded, which was then specifically traced to faulty parts. i think in the end i have only seen them bashed because the parts are manufactured overseas.
if their stuff works for you, buy it. if it doesn't, don't. but what is the point in bashing them or anyone else, beyond a one time report of bad parts or bad service?
kind of a drag when someone who has provided parts for so many members cars for such a long time doesn't even want to be a part of this community anymore.
You say 440 Source is one of the most bashed vendors on this site!Question for you,how does one achieve that status. 
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,440 Source,lon
[Re: I go fast]
#442088
08/19/09 03:25 PM
08/19/09 03:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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Quote:
You say 440 Source is one of the most bashed vendors on this site!Question for you,how does one achieve that status.
i have no empirical data for this. it just seems to me that i have seen more posts bashing them than any other vendor. doesn't mean that is the case, just what i have noticed. which at least means the bash rate is reasonably high!
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,440 Source,long
[Re: GTXKen]
#442089
08/19/09 03:34 PM
08/19/09 03:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,637
San Jose,CA
migsBIG
YouTube is my go-to news source
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YouTube is my go-to news source
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,637
San Jose,CA
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That's the first I have head of in the water pump problem. I think a combination of diffrent factors could be here. On the origian post where his motor is over heating, it could be a combination of factors that would add heat. No spring in hoses so they collapse with heat, low waterpump housing volume, compression ratio, bore diamiter, compression height,rearend ratio in traffic driving (ever seen what 4;10's and 3:23's diffrence in heat for cruising). I knew a guy who had a brand new engine, literatly fresh from the shop and had everything perfect and it would overheat, no matter what they did. After several trips they disassembled the block and still found nothing. Later on, the boil job done to the block was sub-par and found huge rust and debris in the water passages blocking a good deal of flow! After a correct boil and dipping, they reassembled the engine and it lost 30 degrees of over heating temp!
Now I'm not saying who is at fault or what is the cause, but assuming that a 3/4 inch in diffrence after all the hundreds of pumps/housings sold and there have been no known problems of that reported before, might be pushing the parinoid button a little to soon here. If it's such a big deal about that little volume, just take a little dremel and open it up. Come on, these car part upgrades save alot of people some cash in the long run, so why not just go that little extra step and do something that will make your self feel good that you did the work yourself.
And just so people don't say I am defending Brandon, the only thing I ever bought off him was a set of mopar performance main caps he had for sale. I have been around about 20 other of his customers motors in cars, trucks and one motorhome that used his parts, and never have heard a problem with any of those parts he sold (except an very early roller rocker set when the company first started, and that was fixed early on) and everyone pretty muc drives/races their rides frequently.
Now nobody is dog piling you B-man, just people just comparing info and tech, nothing more.
Now, where did I put that dremel at......
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,440 Source,lon
[Re: mickm]
#442090
08/19/09 03:40 PM
08/19/09 03:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,637
San Jose,CA
migsBIG
YouTube is my go-to news source
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YouTube is my go-to news source
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,637
San Jose,CA
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Quote:
Quote:
You say 440 Source is one of the most bashed vendors on this site!Question for you,how does one achieve that status.
i have no empirical data for this. it just seems to me that i have seen more posts bashing them than any other vendor. doesn't mean that is the case, just what i have noticed. which at least means the bash rate is reasonably high!
I do.....
MOPARTS, where all the 'HATERS' come to play! 
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,
[Re: moparts]
#442091
08/19/09 03:40 PM
08/19/09 03:40 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,853
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,853
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
You say 440 Source is one of the most bashed vendors on this site!Question for you,how does one achieve that status.
If you have to ask then you haven't spent much time on here.
Simply put, their lower prices translate into larger volumes of sales. Even if their parts have the same or lower failure rate as others, the larger sales volume equals more failures and this gives the wrong perception that their parts are substandard.
Couple this with the "made in america" mentality and you end up with a company who gets bashed far more than they deserve.
If all the whiners that are against buying offshore products just didn't buy them and kept their unjustified opinions to themselves then everything would be just fine. I don't doubt for a moment that most of these individuals are hypocrites anyway, doing the bulk of their everyday shopping at Walmart!
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,
[Re: Stanton]
#442093
08/19/09 04:08 PM
08/19/09 04:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
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Made in America parts are better, if you need that explained, then you haven't worked on enough stuff. Cars or otherwise. I can't even begin to count the times that China crap has been bad out of the box or needed extra work to use. USA stuff is pretty good right off the jump. Thanks to the "Buying China products is a fine thing to do" mentality, I can no longer pay extra for USA products in most cases. I can't thank you all enough for the BS that has caused.  If a vendor claims to be so good, and the members claim they are so good, why run from the so called unfounded criticisms? Should be easy to dispell. But no, run away and hide is the tactic.  Strange way of going about things. For the record, I have only went to Wal Mart twice this summer. Once to buy motor oil that is cheaper there and the same stuff I could get anywhere. The other time was for some Advil. Yes, there are a million factors into overheating. This is one that can and has caused the problem per the member with that car. How many overheating threads have there been in the past couple of months? Did anybody think of this before? irst I have seen it, maybe those cars from the other threads have this housing.
I want my fair share
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,
[Re: moparts]
#442094
08/19/09 04:44 PM
08/19/09 04:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
DrCharles
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
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Quote:
Now for the question if the housing has a small opening,
IT DOES, will it cause a cooling problem, seems to have for one. Not sure for anyone else
The narrow passage is only the feed ( back to the block ) lower passage on the passage side. All other passage look fine and closely match a factory housing.
Bashing aside... is there enough "meat" in the narrowed area to open it up to factory dimensions, with a die grinder and burr?
-Charles
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,440 Source,long
[Re: 440sourcedotcom]
#442095
08/19/09 04:53 PM
08/19/09 04:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
challenger70
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
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Quote:
Now people are saying their engine is running perfectly cool, but they are going to remove their water pump housing anyway because of this thread. Am I missing something? Is there really that much of a sheep mentality going on here?
I don't think anyone said that Just people wondering if their pumps were affected. Wouldn't make sense to take your pump off if you weren't having a problem.
Quote:
Here goes another Moparts bash fest about our company and our products when in reality the entire mopar marketplace sells the exact same part from the exact same manufacturer, and has been for many years [list] . If anyone wonders why we are no longer active in the Moparts.com community, this is exactly why.
I think it is a case of self fulfilling prophesy, no one bashed your company until started this rant 
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#442096
08/19/09 10:08 PM
08/19/09 10:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,853
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,853
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Made in America parts are better, if you need that explained, then you haven't worked on enough stuff. Cars or otherwise. I can't even begin to count the times that China crap has been bad out of the box or needed extra work to use. USA stuff is pretty good right off the jump.
Let's get one thing straight here. It wasn't some little chinaman who was tired of pulling a rickshaw that suddenly said "hey, I think I'll make big block mopar parts and export them to amellica"! It is capitalistic americans who are having the stuff made by cheap labor because THEY can make a buck !!! And there's nothing wrong with that. However, when it comes to quality you have to spell it out. An american quality "guru" once said that "quality is conformance to requirements". So when you have a product made you have to specify each and every one of those requirements. That's real simple when you're dealing with local shops - they send you a prototype, you need a change, you call them up and tell them and they make adjustments. Its a little different when you're dealing with people who not only speak a different language but are also accustomed to cranking out cheap parts fast because that's what the customer has always wanted! However, make no mistake - if you spell out EXACTLY what you want to a Chinese manufacturer, you will get a product of unsurpassed quality at a price that can't be beat. The bottom line is if you have an issue with offshore quality, blame the guy that ordered it, not the guy that made it.
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,
[Re: Stanton]
#442097
08/19/09 11:55 PM
08/19/09 11:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
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Yep, I can't get made in the USA parts due to that thinking you just posted. I understand people want to make more money- not a shocker  When you give people a choice of cheap versus quality, it is going to go on price as most people don't stop and think about the problems that might create. So that runs the guys making good stuff here in the US out of business. An explains why when I get something like an angle stop for a toliet, I have to get three in order to have one that works right. I blame both the guys selling i, at the same price as before no less, if not more AND the guys that think it is a great thing.
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,
[Re: Boise Chall]
#442099
08/20/09 08:41 AM
08/20/09 08:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,064
Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,064
Niles , Ohio
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Never had a bad USA part did you?LOL Ive been wrenching for over 40 years.Ever pull a factory part from your US made vehible.It made in Canada Australia Korea Mexico Pakistan etc.Wake up most not all but most US companies dont give a crap where its made.Just make it cheap so they can make more $$$$.Then lets see you have the EPA and their regs local state taxes fed taxes.Oh lets mot forget the unions.Yeah I was a union member.Not saying they are all bad but they do drive up prices.Like at the mill.We couldnt change a light bulb without calling an electrician that at that time made 16 bucks an hour or more in the 70s.Then we had to wait for 1 to 3 hours for them.They had to watch their TV in their air conditioned room.If you unscrewed the bulb they filed a grievance.Then lets see you have the fat cats knocking down insane salarys.Gee I wonder why you cant guy a US made product.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,
[Re: TonyS451]
#442101
08/20/09 09:55 AM
08/20/09 09:55 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 190
Wilmington,NC
I go fast
member
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member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 190
Wilmington,NC
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Now for the question if the housing has a small opening,
IT DOES, will it cause a cooling problem, seems to have for one. Not sure for anyone else
The narrow passage is only the feed ( back to the block ) lower passage on the passage side. All other passage look fine and closely match a factory housing.
Bashing aside... is there enough "meat" in the narrowed area to open it up to factory dimensions, with a die grinder and burr?
-Charles
I was wondering about that as well.
I would "ASSUME" there is,but if that be the case,once again,why was it not done from the beginning? Now I remember,short cuts save money! 
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,
[Re: therocks]
#442102
08/20/09 10:07 AM
08/20/09 10:07 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
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Quote:
Never had a bad USA part did you?LOL Ive been wrenching for over 40 years.Ever pull a factory part from your US made vehible.It made in Canada Australia Korea Mexico Pakistan etc.Wake up most not all but most US companies dont give a crap where its made.Just make it cheap so they can make more $$$$.Then lets see you have the EPA and their regs local state taxes fed taxes.Oh lets mot forget the unions.Yeah I was a union member.Not saying they are all bad but they do drive up prices.Like at the mill.We couldnt change a light bulb without calling an electrician that at that time made 16 bucks an hour or more in the 70s.Then we had to wait for 1 to 3 hours for them.They had to watch their TV in their air conditioned room.If you unscrewed the bulb they filed a grievance.Then lets see you have the fat cats knocking down insane salarys.Gee I wonder why you cant guy a US made product.Rocky
Nice straw man. You beat him up pretty well. I don't think you will find anybody that says that USA stuff doesn't fail. ANYTHING mass produced will have problems. Do you really need that concept explained to you?
Too bad that doesn't change the fact that Chinese parts are FAR more trouble prone. Enjoy your lead filled toys for your kids and so on. Enjoy repairing things again when a Chinese part fails quickly or doesn't work the first time.
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#442103
08/20/09 11:48 AM
08/20/09 11:48 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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Somebody needs to change the title of this thread, it's gotten a little sidetracked. We got another China-bashin' thread going on right now (if it hasn't been deleted yet) so those of you wanting that destination should get on the other bus...
Parts I seek:
driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set
16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better.
69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields
Send a PM.
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,
[Re: Fury Fan]
#442104
08/20/09 12:00 PM
08/20/09 12:00 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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I would prefer having all parts made in the USA. But that won't happen any more on any large scale. My issues are all from hands on measuring and usage. In this case, I had to modify a factory part to fit a Source part because the holes are off. A good friend returned one for seaping when it was being filled for the dyno session. Being conservative and providing a warranty for my work means I have the right to refuse what I consider substandard product. If I can't get the bolts thru it, its substandard. Period. Not all Source stuff is substandard. However a lot of it is simply not as good as billed. Functional? More than likely. Cheap? Yes. Ready to run? Depends on the user's eyes tools, and experience. I think many of those who are trying to convince the others to at minimum not accept the seller's slogans as gospel are the people who have to produce a good product that needs to perform beyond stock levels every single time. It's not a bash fest. Just different levels of acceptance among builders and enthusiasts. In the spirit of equal time... I don't use MP camshafts because they are so terribly made either. 
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,
[Re: moper]
#442105
08/20/09 12:43 PM
08/20/09 12:43 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 759
Southington Ct.
turbobitt
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 759
Southington Ct.
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Guy,s
I wrote a reply on DodgeCharger much like this one. Let me tell you my experience with the 440 Source WP housing and pump. I have a 572 Hemi with 11:1 compression, Ported Indy heads, Siamesed World block, solid roller cam, Dominator carb. I think my engine is capable of producing around 700 HP and mainly street driven so if there is an application that will tax the cooling system then this is it. I recently took my car to a local Mopars in Motion car show that was over a 1 hour drive one way. It was brutally hot with temps in the mid 90’s. I drove my car through the back roads, stop and go traffic with no issue. Now think about this, this is low road speed, that means low air flow though the radiator and also low RPM and therefore low water pump speed. The absolute hottest my car got was 195 degrees but spent most of the time around 185. I was at this show with other Moparts members including Tom “Moparts” and Tim “Defbob” who know my car and can vouch for my existence. I do have my doubts that by replacing the housing they found the miracle cure but would also admit that it is possible that there could be a potential issue only because I gasket matched my port openings before installing. I don’t think I would encourage people to rush out and replace there 440 Source housings before actually doing what I did and trying it. I would also like to add that there isn’t many parts that I bought that could be used “Out of the box”, made in USA or otherwise.
1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy.
1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno.
1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,
[Re: turbobitt]
#442106
08/21/09 02:10 PM
08/21/09 02:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,243
Canada
Kam*Kuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,243
Canada
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The original post is about as good as it gets for a side my side comparison. The results were fairly conclusive. Overheating issues,... tried several remedies. The one that worked was the change of the water pump. The water restriction makes sense. It is also good to know that this pump is sold by different vendors. I feel better informed on potential issues and appreciate the heads up prior to making a purchase. I am sure others will gain some value for diagnosing any problem they may have.
1970 Barracuda Convertible
1968 Satellite Street Strip car
1654.5 Mustang
1955 Land Rover
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