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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems, [Re: 440sourcedotcom] #442084
08/19/09 03:03 PM
08/19/09 03:03 PM
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Norwich CT USA
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Quote:


Now people are saying their engine is running perfectly cool, but they are going to remove their water pump housing anyway because of this thread. Am I missing something? Is there really that much of a sheep mentality going on here?






I removed my housing because it was easy to pull and look at, no coolant, motor not hooked up and running but dyno time.

And yes I thought it was a cat housing, which everyone sells.

Now for the question if the housing has a small opening,

IT DOES, will it cause a cooling problem, seems to have for one. Not sure for anyone else

The narrow passage is only the feed ( back to the block ) lower passage on the passage side. All other passage look fine and closely match a factory housing.

Picture included

5427581-PassSide.jpg (100 downloads)

Tom ,

2011 Ram 3500 C&C Diesel
2009 Challenger R/T
1971 Challenger Conv. 511/4 speed
1970 Challenger R/T 503/727


Re: If you have 440 overheating problems, [Re: moparts] #442085
08/19/09 03:04 PM
08/19/09 03:04 PM
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Norwich CT USA
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And the drivers side , which looks fine

5427582-Driverside.jpg (127 downloads)

Tom ,

2011 Ram 3500 C&C Diesel
2009 Challenger R/T
1971 Challenger Conv. 511/4 speed
1970 Challenger R/T 503/727


Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,440 Source,lon [Re: 440sourcedotcom] #442086
08/19/09 03:05 PM
08/19/09 03:05 PM
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California
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Quote:


Now people are saying their engine is running perfectly cool, but they are going to remove their water pump housing anyway because of this thread. Am I missing something? Is there really that much of a sheep mentality going on here?




fwiw, (and i admit, probably nothing), i agree. if it ain't broke, don't fix it. if the pump is working, why replace it? if you ever do run into cooling issues, then you will at least have a place to start looking.

Quote:



Here goes another Moparts bash fest about our company and our products when in reality the entire mopar marketplace sells the exact same part from the exact same manufacturer, and has been for many years [list] . If anyone wonders why we are no longer active in the Moparts.com community, this is exactly why.




once again, i agree. 440 source is probably the most bashed vendor on this site, from what i have seen. although i have yet to see anyone bash them because a motor grenaded, which was then specifically traced to faulty parts. i think in the end i have only seen them bashed because the parts are manufactured overseas.

if their stuff works for you, buy it. if it doesn't, don't. but what is the point in bashing them or anyone else, beyond a one time report of bad parts or bad service?

kind of a drag when someone who has provided parts for so many members cars for such a long time doesn't even want to be a part of this community anymore.

Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,440 Source,lon [Re: mickm] #442087
08/19/09 03:20 PM
08/19/09 03:20 PM
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Posts: 190
Wilmington,NC
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Quote:

Quote:


Now people are saying their engine is running perfectly cool, but they are going to remove their water pump housing anyway because of this thread. Am I missing something? Is there really that much of a sheep mentality going on here?




fwiw, (and i admit, probably nothing), i agree. if it ain't broke, don't fix it. if the pump is working, why replace it? if you ever do run into cooling issues, then you will at least have a place to start looking.

Quote:



Here goes another Moparts bash fest about our company and our products when in reality the entire mopar marketplace sells the exact same part from the exact same manufacturer, and has been for many years [list] . If anyone wonders why we are no longer active in the Moparts.com community, this is exactly why.




once again, i agree. 440 source is probably the most bashed vendor on this site, from what i have seen. although i have yet to see anyone bash them because a motor grenaded, which was then specifically traced to faulty parts. i think in the end i have only seen them bashed because the parts are manufactured overseas.

if their stuff works for you, buy it. if it doesn't, don't. but what is the point in bashing them or anyone else, beyond a one time report of bad parts or bad service?

kind of a drag when someone who has provided parts for so many members cars for such a long time doesn't even want to be a part of this community anymore.





You say 440 Source is one of the most bashed vendors on this site!Question for you,how does one achieve that status.

Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,440 Source,lon [Re: I go fast] #442088
08/19/09 03:25 PM
08/19/09 03:25 PM
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Posts: 4,177
California
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Quote:


You say 440 Source is one of the most bashed vendors on this site!Question for you,how does one achieve that status.




i have no empirical data for this. it just seems to me that i have seen more posts bashing them than any other vendor. doesn't mean that is the case, just what i have noticed. which at least means the bash rate is reasonably high!

Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,440 Source,long [Re: GTXKen] #442089
08/19/09 03:34 PM
08/19/09 03:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,599
San Jose,CA
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That's the first I have head of in the water pump problem. I think a combination of diffrent factors could be here. On the origian post where his motor is over heating, it could be a combination of factors that would add heat. No spring in hoses so they collapse with heat, low waterpump housing volume, compression ratio, bore diamiter, compression height,rearend ratio in traffic driving (ever seen what 4;10's and 3:23's diffrence in heat for cruising). I knew a guy who had a brand new engine, literatly fresh from the shop and had everything perfect and it would overheat, no matter what they did. After several trips they disassembled the block and still found nothing. Later on, the boil job done to the block was sub-par and found huge rust and debris in the water passages blocking a good deal of flow! After a correct boil and dipping, they reassembled the engine and it lost 30 degrees of over heating temp!

Now I'm not saying who is at fault or what is the cause, but assuming that a 3/4 inch in diffrence after all the hundreds of pumps/housings sold and there have been no known problems of that reported before, might be pushing the parinoid button a little to soon here. If it's such a big deal about that little volume, just take a little dremel and open it up. Come on, these car part upgrades save alot of people some cash in the long run, so why not just go that little extra step and do something that will make your self feel good that you did the work yourself.

And just so people don't say I am defending Brandon, the only thing I ever bought off him was a set of mopar performance main caps he had for sale. I have been around about 20 other of his customers motors in cars, trucks and one motorhome that used his parts, and never have heard a problem with any of those parts he sold (except an very early roller rocker set when the company first started, and that was fixed early on) and everyone pretty muc drives/races their rides frequently.

Now nobody is dog piling you B-man, just people just comparing info and tech, nothing more.

Now, where did I put that dremel at......

Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,440 Source,lon [Re: mickm] #442090
08/19/09 03:40 PM
08/19/09 03:40 PM
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San Jose,CA
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Quote:

Quote:


You say 440 Source is one of the most bashed vendors on this site!Question for you,how does one achieve that status.




i have no empirical data for this. it just seems to me that i have seen more posts bashing them than any other vendor. doesn't mean that is the case, just what i have noticed. which at least means the bash rate is reasonably high!




I do.....


MOPARTS, where all the 'HATERS' come to play!

Re: If you have 440 overheating problems, [Re: moparts] #442091
08/19/09 03:40 PM
08/19/09 03:40 PM
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Posts: 8,828
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:

You say 440 Source is one of the most bashed vendors on this site!Question for you,how does one achieve that status.




If you have to ask then you haven't spent much time on here.

Simply put, their lower prices translate into larger volumes of sales. Even if their parts have the same or lower failure rate as others, the larger sales volume equals more failures and this gives the wrong perception that their parts are substandard.

Couple this with the "made in america" mentality and you end up with a company who gets bashed far more than they deserve.

If all the whiners that are against buying offshore products just didn't buy them and kept their unjustified opinions to themselves then everything would be just fine. I don't doubt for a moment that most of these individuals are hypocrites anyway, doing the bulk of their everyday shopping at Walmart!

Re: If you have 440 overheating problems, [Re: Stanton] #442092
08/19/09 03:58 PM
08/19/09 03:58 PM
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Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems, [Re: Stanton] #442093
08/19/09 04:08 PM
08/19/09 04:08 PM
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Made in America parts are better, if you need that explained, then you haven't worked on enough stuff. Cars or otherwise. I can't even begin to count the times that China crap has been bad out of the box or needed extra work to use. USA stuff is pretty good right off the jump.

Thanks to the "Buying China products is a fine thing to do" mentality, I can no longer pay extra for USA products in most cases. I can't thank you all enough for the BS that has caused.

If a vendor claims to be so good, and the members claim they are so good, why run from the so called unfounded criticisms? Should be easy to dispell. But no, run away and hide is the tactic. Strange way of going about things.

For the record, I have only went to Wal Mart twice this summer. Once to buy motor oil that is cheaper there and the same stuff I could get anywhere. The other time was for some Advil.

Yes, there are a million factors into overheating. This is one that can and has caused the problem per the member with that car. How many overheating threads have there been in the past couple of months? Did anybody think of this before? irst I have seen it, maybe those cars from the other threads have this housing.


I want my fair share
Re: If you have 440 overheating problems, [Re: moparts] #442094
08/19/09 04:44 PM
08/19/09 04:44 PM
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Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
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Quote:

Now for the question if the housing has a small opening,

IT DOES, will it cause a cooling problem, seems to have for one. Not sure for anyone else

The narrow passage is only the feed ( back to the block ) lower passage on the passage side. All other passage look fine and closely match a factory housing.




Bashing aside... is there enough "meat" in the narrowed area to open it up to factory dimensions, with a die grinder and burr?

-Charles

Re: If you have 440 overheating problems,440 Source,long [Re: 440sourcedotcom] #442095
08/19/09 04:53 PM
08/19/09 04:53 PM
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Berwyn, IL
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Quote:



Now people are saying their engine is running perfectly cool, but they are going to remove their water pump housing anyway because of this thread. Am I missing something? Is there really that much of a sheep mentality going on here?




I don't think anyone said that Just people wondering if their pumps were affected. Wouldn't make sense to take your pump off if you weren't having a problem.

Quote:


Here goes another Moparts bash fest about our company and our products when in reality the entire mopar marketplace sells the exact same part from the exact same manufacturer, and has been for many years [list] . If anyone wonders why we are no longer active in the Moparts.com community, this is exactly why.




I think it is a case of self fulfilling prophesy, no one bashed your company until started this rant

Re: If you have 440 overheating problems, [Re: SomeCarGuy] #442096
08/19/09 10:08 PM
08/19/09 10:08 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Quote:

Made in America parts are better, if you need that explained, then you haven't worked on enough stuff. Cars or otherwise. I can't even begin to count the times that China crap has been bad out of the box or needed extra work to use. USA stuff is pretty good right off the jump.




Let's get one thing straight here. It wasn't some little chinaman who was tired of pulling a rickshaw that suddenly said "hey, I think I'll make big block mopar parts and export them to amellica"! It is capitalistic americans who are having the stuff made by cheap labor because THEY can make a buck !!! And there's nothing wrong with that. However, when it comes to quality you have to spell it out. An american quality "guru" once said that "quality is conformance to requirements". So when you have a product made you have to specify each and every one of those requirements. That's real simple when you're dealing with local shops - they send you a prototype, you need a change, you call them up and tell them and they make adjustments. Its a little different when you're dealing with people who not only speak a different language but are also accustomed to cranking out cheap parts fast because that's what the customer has always wanted! However, make no mistake - if you spell out EXACTLY what you want to a Chinese manufacturer, you will get a product of unsurpassed quality at a price that can't be beat. The bottom line is if you have an issue with offshore quality, blame the guy that ordered it, not the guy that made it.

Re: If you have 440 overheating problems, [Re: Stanton] #442097
08/19/09 11:55 PM
08/19/09 11:55 PM
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Yep, I can't get made in the USA parts due to that thinking you just posted.

I understand people want to make more money- not a shocker

When you give people a choice of cheap versus quality, it is going to go on price as most people don't stop and think about the problems that might create. So that runs the guys making good stuff here in the US out of business.

An explains why when I get something like an angle stop for a toliet, I have to get three in order to have one that works right.

I blame both the guys selling i, at the same price as before no less, if not more AND the guys that think it is a great thing.

Re: If you have 440 overheating problems, [Re: SomeCarGuy] #442098
08/20/09 01:30 AM
08/20/09 01:30 AM
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Boise Idaho
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Wow.... I have this pump housing on my 512 yes I had alot of top end heat when the motor fired up and was seeing temps of 210 after driving it for an hour or so using an ebay ( made in china ) radiator and a Ford Taurus fan with a dakota digital fan controler. As I got the tuning right the temps came down. Fixing the NEW Stant ( Made in USA) gas cap with the pluged vent dropped my temps about 20 degrees once I stopped building tons of pressure in the tank causing massive flooding in the motor. Replacing my 6.5 powervalves with 2.5 (my motor only makes about 5.5-6" of vacuum) dropped me about 10 degrees. Getting the timing right dropped my temps a little more now I run 170-175 degrees in 90-95 degree air temps wth a 160 thermostat. by the way thank you guys here on the forum for getting me through these problems. I did not by my 440 source parts from 440source I bought them new from a guy in Phoenix that went broke after he bought them. I have had plenty of lenghthy conversations with Kim at 440source even though he knew I didn't buy the parts from him he helped me with all the questions I had so I have alot of respect for him. The only problem I had with the 440source parts was I had to have the push tube slots moved in the stealth heads so the tubes would line up properly everything else was perfect. my Pro form fabricated valve covers ( I think us made) I had to move the holes so they would fit then the bolts hit the side of the valve cover. I checked them on the stealth heads and a set of stockers same problem but hey they make great ash trays my M/T covers fit right on. XV motorsports frame rail connectors (US made)What a joke I paid $200 for $20 worth of metal WOW their laser cut I spent 2 days fitting them to my car they didn't have an edge on either one that I didn't have to cut grind or trim I could go on forever. What really pisses me off is when you get a China made tool and pay a US made price go on the Sears website and look up the Inersol Rand inline sander ( about $150 ) then go to the harbor freight site and look up inline sander ( $30) they are the exact same unit the sears IR sander has a red handle with IR stamped in it but side by side they are identicle. sorry for ranting.

Re: If you have 440 overheating problems, [Re: Boise Chall] #442099
08/20/09 08:41 AM
08/20/09 08:41 AM
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Niles , Ohio
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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Never had a bad USA part did you?LOL Ive been wrenching for over 40 years.Ever pull a factory part from your US made vehible.It made in Canada Australia Korea Mexico Pakistan etc.Wake up most not all but most US companies dont give a crap where its made.Just make it cheap so they can make more $$$$.Then lets see you have the EPA and their regs local state taxes fed taxes.Oh lets mot forget the unions.Yeah I was a union member.Not saying they are all bad but they do drive up prices.Like at the mill.We couldnt change a light bulb without calling an electrician that at that time made 16 bucks an hour or more in the 70s.Then we had to wait for 1 to 3 hours for them.They had to watch their TV in their air conditioned room.If you unscrewed the bulb they filed a grievance.Then lets see you have the fat cats knocking down insane salarys.Gee I wonder why you cant guy a US made product.Rocky


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Re: If you have 440 overheating problems, [Re: DrCharles] #442100
08/20/09 09:01 AM
08/20/09 09:01 AM
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Chicago, IL
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Quote:

Quote:

Now for the question if the housing has a small opening,

IT DOES, will it cause a cooling problem, seems to have for one. Not sure for anyone else

The narrow passage is only the feed ( back to the block ) lower passage on the passage side. All other passage look fine and closely match a factory housing.




Bashing aside... is there enough "meat" in the narrowed area to open it up to factory dimensions, with a die grinder and burr?

-Charles




I was wondering about that as well.


2 kids and a dog
Re: If you have 440 overheating problems, [Re: TonyS451] #442101
08/20/09 09:55 AM
08/20/09 09:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 190
Wilmington,NC
I
I go fast Offline
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Wilmington,NC
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Now for the question if the housing has a small opening,

IT DOES, will it cause a cooling problem, seems to have for one. Not sure for anyone else

The narrow passage is only the feed ( back to the block ) lower passage on the passage side. All other passage look fine and closely match a factory housing.




Bashing aside... is there enough "meat" in the narrowed area to open it up to factory dimensions, with a die grinder and burr?

-Charles




I was wondering about that as well.




I would "ASSUME" there is,but if that be the case,once again,why was it not done from the beginning? Now I remember,short cuts save money!

Re: If you have 440 overheating problems, [Re: therocks] #442102
08/20/09 10:07 AM
08/20/09 10:07 AM
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Posts: 10,178
Someplace you aren't
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Quote:

Never had a bad USA part did you?LOL Ive been wrenching for over 40 years.Ever pull a factory part from your US made vehible.It made in Canada Australia Korea Mexico Pakistan etc.Wake up most not all but most US companies dont give a crap where its made.Just make it cheap so they can make more $$$$.Then lets see you have the EPA and their regs local state taxes fed taxes.Oh lets mot forget the unions.Yeah I was a union member.Not saying they are all bad but they do drive up prices.Like at the mill.We couldnt change a light bulb without calling an electrician that at that time made 16 bucks an hour or more in the 70s.Then we had to wait for 1 to 3 hours for them.They had to watch their TV in their air conditioned room.If you unscrewed the bulb they filed a grievance.Then lets see you have the fat cats knocking down insane salarys.Gee I wonder why you cant guy a US made product.Rocky




Nice straw man. You beat him up pretty well. I don't think you will find anybody that says that USA stuff doesn't fail. ANYTHING mass produced will have problems. Do you really need that concept explained to you?

Too bad that doesn't change the fact that Chinese parts are FAR more trouble prone. Enjoy your lead filled toys for your kids and so on. Enjoy repairing things again when a Chinese part fails quickly or doesn't work the first time.

Re: If you have 440 overheating problems, [Re: SomeCarGuy] #442103
08/20/09 11:48 AM
08/20/09 11:48 AM
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Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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Somebody needs to change the title of this thread, it's gotten a little sidetracked.

We got another China-bashin' thread going on right now (if it hasn't been deleted yet) so those of you wanting that destination should get on the other bus...


Parts I seek: driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set 16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better. 69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields Send a PM.
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