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With all that debate between the XV & RMS setups, nobody mentioned the MagnumForce version. Is anyone using it? Is it a viable contender with the other two or is it junk?

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Are any set up for handling?

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How much does a viper engine weigh compared to a 5.7 or 6.1 Hemi anyway? I know you want the viper drivetrain but I'm curious as to how much weight it puts over the nose compared to the other modern alternatives.

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A 3rd Gen Viper engine puts out 505 HP in stock form and being naturally aspirated...plus I can get a salvage one with a 6 speed for a reasonable amount. They weigh about 500 pounds.

A 5,7 or 6,1 Hemi weighs around 485 lbs.

I would prefer going with a much cooler and more exotic engine like the one on the viper. Plus the t56 6 speed comes attahced already!

I would definatly set the viper engine back though and I would cut the firewall in order to keep from mounting it with too much overhang over the front axle.

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Hi!

I have been looking and the Alterktion front end kit and also they new rear suspension kit with triangulated 4 bars and coil overs.

I want o build a modern day musclecar with a viper drivetrain.

I was wondering if the front and rear Alterktion suspension and steering will make an old musclecar like an an E body or 68-69 Charger handle real good like a newer car.

Or will handling be just marginally improved over stock?

I would plan on doing some majour unibody stffening, maybe even a full cage, and the front and rear alterktion kit plus some real good brakes and 17" o 18" wheels with some serious tires.

I dont want to spend a ton on suspoension mods, a 500 hp modern drivertain, a 6 speed....and end up having thrown a lot of money on a car that looks cool but handles like a bulldozer.

If that will be the case, Id rather just keep it old school, which is cool as well.....and just get a newer car like a 2010 Camaro, Newer Challenger, or a vette.

I wonder how an old E body with all the tricks would stand against a 2009 Challenger.

Opinions????

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As a fact I'm planning doing pretty much the same thing myself.
Have a rusty 70 318 cuda to start with. I will make it look like an AAR cuda with black 17" wheels but try to make it handle more like a modern AAR. Noisy and no comfort. Not much interior. Keep the dash and maybe some heat insulation. Some light and good adjustable seats from the junk yard, and probably a tilt/telescopic steering column.
Absolutely no trailer queen, just a hardcore oval track racer legal for the street. I will not pay a dollar extra for chrome!

I've been reading topics for hours but get more confused the more I read...

Plan was to do all the reinforcements XV came up with, not sure if I should put in a roll cage or not.
Build a 408 stroker to hold the budget down. Keisler 5-speed, 8 3/4" rear.
Then either XV front/rear suspension and brakes (around $10K) or save some $$$ with AlterKtion parts.
Right now people is trying to convince me that a 6.1 Hemi is the way to go. I really want fuel injection and they say it is better to buy a crate 6.1 than converting an old stroker...
Whish I liked the sound of a V10

But just like you Domingo, I need to know how good it really will handle before I start investing money and time...

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With all that debate between the XV & RMS setups, nobody mentioned the MagnumForce version. Is anyone using it? Is it a viable contender with the other two or is it junk?

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They have a reputation of poor fit and function....

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pure junk. alterktion is the only way to go.

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plethora

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Does "Three Amigos" pop into anyone else's mind?

Anyway, a few good, well thought out, and supported questions. I always wonder when an OP starts out like this how they walk away when their question instigates 10 more.

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plethora

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Does "Three Amigos" pop into anyone else's mind?

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Ole!

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I guess my question would be what do you consider to be good handling? What or how do you intend to use the car? What type of budget do you have to apply to the suspension? Is the perception of other important to you?

Lesee, typically when asked what good handling is, most will reply that they want their muscle car to handle at least as good as their late model sedan. Since most late model sedans are pulling mid .8 G and stock muscle cars are in the mid .7 range, a slight lowering of the car, larger sway bar, wider tires, and a radial friendly alignment can get you to the mid .8 range. Good enough yet?

So you want to drive it more aggressively than that, okay. The benefit I think people are seeing with these "modern" systems is having someone else spec out all the wheel rates neceessary to balance out the car, thus achieve the perception of excellent handling. With the proper application of formulas, the same results can be produced with the OEM suspensions, but most people do not how to get there, or if they have the books with the theories, have not bothered to do all the calculations (they can get extensive). Tires only care about the force acting on them, not the system appling the force, so whether it is a leaf, coil, or torsion spring is irrelevent to the tread face of the tire.

So lets say you spec out a tricked out stock system that can pull mid .9. Is this still enough? What are your abilities? Are you really pushing the car that hard? Do you need a large selection of spring rates and quick and easy adjustability? Coil overs are nice in that they are lightweight, quickly adjustable, and have a plethora of available springs rates. All great things in a competition environment that require quick, minut changes to adjust the car. For street applications, most drivers will never bother to change rates or perform the adjustments that make coil overs the prefered method of suspending a competition vehicle. Dollars to donuts that 90% of the drivers with an Alterk have never changed their springs rates from Bill's original recommendation. I will grant you, at the limits of capability where cars are pushed to their maximum, many new coil over systems will produce more linear and predictable performance than the original suspension. But, how many drivers on here are really in the realm of that capability where they can tell when a spring rate is off 50# and their track bar needs to go up 1/2"? Not that many I'm guessing.

Do perceptions matter to you? Not many people will stop and gawk at a stock system that has no bump steer, leaf springs, and corners like a fiend. Put coil overs under a car and suddenly peope are dropping to their knees to look under it. Compliments will flow and you'll be voted most popular at the local cruise in meet. Well, maybe not, but a lot of people will be impressed.

So, once again, what do you consider to be good handling? What or how do you intend to use the car? What type of budget do you have to apply to the suspension? Is the perception of other important to you? Answer those questions and you can usually decide on a course of action.

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I am not interested at all in making impressions on the crowd, I just want a good handling car for the least amount of money.

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Then buy a Miata, and it will hang with the Cobra in the corners

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I am not interested at all in making impressions on the crowd, I just want a good handling car for the least amount of money.

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Then buy a Miata, and it will hang with the Cobra in the corners

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Well, that would be an option for someone else. First, I don't think you can enter a race with AC Cobras and other vintage race cars
second, and more important: I want to be in my cuda!!

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I just want a good handling car for the least amount of money.
Sorry but I don't know about g numbers. I want to be able to compete against other classic racing cars such as AC Cobras.
Is it possible to do that with original k-frame and leaf springs?
Anyway, I want to stiffen the chassis with the parts from XV. Will torque boxes do any difference upon that?

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you wont be re-inventing the wheel here, but IMO, trying to make a 40 year old car handle like a new car is a loosing battle from a $:performance ratio.

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I want to be able to compete against other classic racing cars such as AC Cobras.

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Please be specific. Is this VARA SVRA competition? OR vintage track days with the Shelby club or other older cars come out. There are lots of AC Cobras that go to track days, most are kit Cobras??

Tim Werner has a 68 Valiant that can keep up with most any AC Cobra. He is a road race driving instuctor too, so his skills make up for a lot. He can hang a little while with GT3 Porsche's. He doesn't have the power, but that may soon change: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1

This car is something fun and wild on the street and to use at track rental day events.



Tim Herren has a VARA legal 70 Cuda. He races it a vintage VARA events. All of those cars are trailered race cars and have to run the same rules of the era of car like cubic inch (not stricly inforced, single carb, 15" rims...