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Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? [Re: 68Cbarge] #427748
08/04/09 08:58 PM
08/04/09 08:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 894
Connecticut, USA
sixty7gtx Offline OP
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sixty7gtx  Offline OP
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Connecticut, USA
Quote:

Rebuilt my 440 in 2004.
After intial break in with cheap oil,I have been using 20W50 Mobil 1 synthetic ever since.
Nooo problems after 5 years of beating the snot out if it.






OK< THANKS...............


1967 Plymouth GTX,
1968 HEMI, 4 Spd. Super Bee,
2010 Chrysler 300 Touring,

MOPAR = Machines Of Performance And Racing!!
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? [Re: sixty7gtx] #427749
08/04/09 08:59 PM
08/04/09 08:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Kirkland, Washington
Generally speaking, people look for a minimum of 1200-1300ppm, but keep in mind a high lift, high spring pressure flat tappet may well have requirements that exceed a .450 lift stocker.

Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #427750
08/04/09 09:23 PM
08/04/09 09:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 74
Stevensville, ON
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Frank Raso Offline
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Stevensville, ON
ZDDP is a compound made from zinc and phosphorus but it is the phosphorus in ZDDP that provides the anti-wear protection. Zinc is just along for the ride. You should NOT exceed 1400 ppm of phosphorus because excessive levels lead to long term wear and engine deposits. A good CI-4/SL HDEO contains 1000-1200 ppm of phosphorus and is sufficient to protect flat tappet engines.

See also BITOG Just what exactly is a "flat-tappet cam" re:zinc

There is no need to use a viscosity heavier than 15W-40 in a street engine because excessively thick oil just wastes power and fuel economy.

Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #427751
08/04/09 09:28 PM
08/04/09 09:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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Ontario, Canada
I like 5-50 Castrol Syntec

Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? [Re: Frank Raso] #427752
08/04/09 09:33 PM
08/04/09 09:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610
Not2farfromNashville, TN
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Rug_Trucker Offline
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Not2farfromNashville, TN
If it sits a lot synthetic will drain off important places.

10-30 Rotella, Delo, etc.....

People are getting silly about oil anymore, additives etc..


"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? [Re: Rug_Trucker] #427753
08/04/09 10:02 PM
08/04/09 10:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn Offline
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Pacific NW USA
Quote:

People are getting silly about oil anymore, additives etc..




You may have a point there...

Quote:

Zinc Concentration (ppm, ICP) : Though viscosity is critical in terms of wear protection, it does have limitations. Component loading can exceed the load carrying ability of the oil. When that occurs, partial or full contact results between components and wear will occur. Chemical additives are added to the oil as the last line of defense to control wear in these conditions. These additives have an attraction to metal surfaces and create a sacrificial coating on engine parts. If contact occurs the additive coating takes the abuse to minimize component wear. The most common additive used in internal combustion engine oils is zinc dithiophosphate (ZDP). A simple way of reviewing ZDP levels within an oil is to measure the zinc content. It should be noted that ZDP defines a group of zinc-containing compounds that vary in composition, quality and performance. Quantity of zinc content alone does not indicate its performance. Therefore, it cannot be assumed that oils with higher concentrations of zinc provide better wear protection. Additional testing must be reviewed to determine an oil’s actual ability to prevent wear.


Work Cited

Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? [Re: Rug_Trucker] #427754
08/04/09 10:03 PM
08/04/09 10:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 74
Stevensville, ON
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Frank Raso Offline
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Frank Raso  Offline
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Posts: 74
Stevensville, ON
A Group III synthetic should drain off less than a Group I/II dino or a Group IV (PAO) synthetic. Most commonly available OTC synthetics are Group III oils.

See BITOG Reducing wear at startup on a low service engine

The Corvair Flat Tappet Oil article suggests that high quality base oils can provide excellent anti-wear protection with lower levels of ZDDP addition. There is more to the quality of an engine oil that the amount of zinc/phosphorus it contains.

Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? [Re: Frank Raso] #427755
08/04/09 10:35 PM
08/04/09 10:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn Offline
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Pacific NW USA
Quote:

A Group III synthetic should drain off less than a Group I/II dino or a Group IV (PAO) synthetic. Most commonly available OTC synthetics are Group III oils.

See BITOG Reducing wear at startup on a low service engine




That’s a pretty broad generalization.

A good starting point in any motor oil is the quality/type/amounts of base oils and complementary additives used in the oil as well as the know how in formulating a balanced lubricant.

Not all Group II, Group III, and Group IV motor oils are created equal. Some perform better than others and in some cases its application specific as well.

In the end, the trump card to determining a motor oils performance is with a Used Oil Analysis (UOA) report.

There are many Group II, Group III, and Group IV motor oils that return outstanding wear numbers in UOAs.

As mentioned, supporting data can be found at BITOG

Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? [Re: CompSyn] #427756
08/10/09 02:27 PM
08/10/09 02:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 894
Connecticut, USA
sixty7gtx Offline OP
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Posts: 894
Connecticut, USA
bock

5408447-charger.jpg (161 downloads)

1967 Plymouth GTX,
1968 HEMI, 4 Spd. Super Bee,
2010 Chrysler 300 Touring,

MOPAR = Machines Of Performance And Racing!!
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? [Re: sixty7gtx] #427757
08/11/09 04:46 PM
08/11/09 04:46 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,295
dark side of the moon
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Dougsmopars Offline
top fuel
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dark side of the moon
I'm old fashion. I'll stick to Castrol 20 50. Been using it inall my toys for 35 years never had an oil related problem. I ain't fixin what ain't broke.

Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? [Re: Dougsmopars] #427758
08/11/09 05:15 PM
08/11/09 05:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 74
Stevensville, ON
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Frank Raso Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 74
Stevensville, ON
Unnecessarily using too high a viscosity wastes power and fuel. Many people like using Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 and Shell ROTELLA T Synthetic 5W-40, which are readily available in the USA. I'll be using in a PC Duron-E 0W-40 in a Dodge 3500 6.7L and Esso XD-3 Extra 0W-30 in pretty much everything else. 15W-40 (dino) will generally be the cheapest oil to use.

ACCCC Engine Oil Article

Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? [Re: Frank Raso] #427759
08/11/09 07:55 PM
08/11/09 07:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,139
West Tennessee
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rbstroker Offline
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i ran synthetic in my 440 powered race car (MP .590 solid cam) until I had to replace the cam for wiped lobes the second time. By then, I figured that it was best to go back to regular diesel oil.


This is the land of the free because of the brave
Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? [Re: rbstroker] #427760
08/11/09 08:19 PM
08/11/09 08:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 74
Stevensville, ON
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Frank Raso Offline
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Stevensville, ON
rbstroker: Do you remember which synthetic oil you were using and when?

Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 44 [Re: sixty7gtx] #427761
08/12/09 03:26 AM
08/12/09 03:26 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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Aurora, Colorado
I had ran Mobile 1 10w-30 for years without problems, but a few years back they changed it, removing most of the ZDDP additives (same issues with the standard oil), and I wiped out a cam lobe! If you use a synthetic (or any "energy efficent" oil) with a flat tappet cam, make sure it is one that still contains a good amount of additives, or add additives to your oil.

Re: Anybody,your option on synthetic motor oil for a 440? [Re: sixty7gtx] #427762
08/12/09 07:09 AM
08/12/09 07:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,060
Pendleton NY
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terzmo Offline
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Pendleton NY
I don't believe there is a difference..only...with synthetic..changing the filter and adding a quart is cheaper in the long run than 8 qts of regular oil and a filter when doing an oil change...I drive My cars alot and change the oil once a month religiously

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