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Could coil be my 440 problem or is it carb? #426158
08/02/09 11:48 AM
08/02/09 11:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,660
Flint, MI
Gusteve Offline OP
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Gusteve  Offline OP
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Hey all,

Well, I know that my ECU was not the problem with my 440. I solved my mis-fire last night, but with my new ECU I still have the same problem where after I get on the throttle a couple times the car will not run at under 2000rpms. This makes for a lot of gravel throwing antics as I try and turn my car around at the end of the road to get home. If I don't keep the engine up to at least 2000rpms it'll stall out. And it runs way poopy even we I can keep it going. It feels like its being flooded with gas.

I was looking in the Summit catalog and noticed that the coil I have (Accel 8140) is listed for points and breakerless ignitions, while the next model up (8145) says specifically for breakerless and electronic systems. I'm running a MP electronic distributor.

Is the coil I bought just not right for an electronic setup? I installed this coil before I upgraded to electronic. Just thought I'd ask before I potentially throw away another $50 on guessing at what's wrong.

Thanks!

Last edited by Gusteve; 08/05/09 02:43 PM.
Re: Could this coil be my 440 ignition problem? [Re: Gusteve] #426159
08/02/09 12:11 PM
08/02/09 12:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
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Michigan
MNobody Offline
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Did you check the float level, sounds like the carbs flooding to me.

Re: Could this coil be my 440 ignition problem? [Re: MNobody] #426160
08/02/09 12:22 PM
08/02/09 12:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,478
the boonies
aarcuda Offline
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the boonies
Doesn't sound like a coil problem to me. Carb problem

Re: Could this coil be my 440 ignition problem? [Re: MNobody] #426161
08/02/09 12:24 PM
08/02/09 12:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,660
Flint, MI
Gusteve Offline OP
I Love the Unicorn Song!!
Gusteve  Offline OP
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Flint, MI
Quote:

Did you check the float level, sounds like the carbs flooding to me.




Yup. I'm pretty certain it is ignition related. FWIW: Sparks plugs all look fine when I take them out. No carbon at all. If it was flooding I assume they'd be carbon'd up. Also, the first 2 or three heavy throttle runs are great, and then the problem pops up.

I've noticed a couple times that after five or ten minutes: "poof" - everything is back to normal. Its like I flipped a switch. If it was fuel-related I assume it would slowly recover over time, not "instantly" fix itself.

Last edited by Gusteve; 08/02/09 12:29 PM.
Re: Could this coil be my 440 ignition problem? [Re: Gusteve] #426162
08/02/09 12:34 PM
08/02/09 12:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,478
the boonies
aarcuda Offline
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Who said it was rich? It could be lean. Could be timing chagingcause vacuum adance dropped. Coils fall apart at higher Rpms. never heard one that worked at 2000 and up but at idle

Re: Could this coil be my 440 ignition problem? [Re: Gusteve] #426163
08/02/09 01:05 PM
08/02/09 01:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,153
Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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Mass
Coils usually don't work, or break up at high RPM,.....although they can faulter in idle condition, but still usually run the engine



A couple of things you might want to check is fuel level, confirm the bowl fills to proper level, and that the accelarator pump is pushing a good stream at initial prime,



In your angst at trying to solve your woes, perhaps removeing the dist. rotor, wether you have or not, check the vacumm advance arm that is pinned to the distbutor plate, it may have been disloged?,.....I've had that happen to me, the car would idle, but any amount of throttle it would break up,....possibility

I'll assume you double checked the ballast, "thoughly"?....What carb are you running?, is there no effect in idle when you run a fuel/air mixture idle screw in or out?.....just for "giggles", I've seen a similuar problem, were the guy hooked up the carbs PCV port to the carbs bowl vent, was sucking the gas right out of the vent, car ran like crap, would die, or shutter after high RPM blast


Mike

Last edited by DAYCLONA; 08/02/09 01:14 PM.
Re: Could coil be my 440 ignition problem? [Re: aarcuda] #426164
08/05/09 02:42 PM
08/05/09 02:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,660
Flint, MI
Gusteve Offline OP
I Love the Unicorn Song!!
Gusteve  Offline OP
I Love the Unicorn Song!!

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Flint, MI
Quote:

Who said it was rich? It could be lean. Could be timing chagingcause vacuum adance dropped. Coils fall apart at higher Rpms. never heard one that worked at 2000 and up but at idle




Hmm. Never thought about too lean. Took the car out last Sunday and drove down the road, this time without getting into the throttle at all. The same problem appeared. I had just assumed it had something to do with me getting heavy into the throttle, 'cuase that's all I had previously done. So it seems now that if I drive it at all, efter a few minutes it runs poorly and under 2k rpms it will stall. So now I'm thining more about not enough fuel, as opposed to ignition.

How can I tell if its running too lean?

Re: Could coil be my 440 ignition problem? [Re: Gusteve] #426165
08/05/09 06:02 PM
08/05/09 06:02 PM
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Arizona
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68CoronetRT Offline
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Arizona
Pull the top off the carb.
Check for dirt in the main jets/bottom of bowls.
Reset float levels being careful to measure from the proper surfaces and not just eye-balling it.
Sounds like you are running out of gas in the carb. and driving home on the accelerator pump. When at idle the level in the bowls begins to rise and the car smooths out again.

By the way, how is the fuel filter?

Last edited by 68CoronetRT; 08/05/09 06:02 PM.
Re: Could coil be my 440 ignition problem? [Re: 68CoronetRT] #426166
08/06/09 06:50 PM
08/06/09 06:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,660
Flint, MI
Gusteve Offline OP
I Love the Unicorn Song!!
Gusteve  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,660
Flint, MI
I checked the floats a few weeks ago. Set them to specs per the manual by measuring them. Fuel filter is new (and I put in a clear one so I can see that there is gas in it).

I haven't actually inspected for dirt, as the carb was new and the car was never driven with it before I brought it back to life. (Edelbrock Performer 1407, IIRC)

Interesting thought on "driving home on the accelerator pump", but I don't think so. Once it stalls out, I can restart it and keep it running as long as I give it enough gas to stay at least at 2000rpm. I've probably done this for at least 30 seconds at a time, the engine will keep running as long as I have my foot on the pedal. (Not pumping the gas, just keeping the revs steady). Although it is running really poorly at that point. Seems like its only firing on 6 cylinders. And, if the bowls were low or out of fuel, where would the gas for the accelerator pump shot come from? (I'm not a carb expert, just trying to apply logic). Also, if it can idle fine in the garage, how long would it take for the bowls to refill after driving it 1/4 mile when its idling in the road? Seems like it wouldn't take much time at all.

Once I get back to my garage and turn it off, I can wait 20 minutes and fire it up and its fine. I doubt the bowls are filling up back up with the car off. And, as I mentioned in a previous post (and maybe this one), at least once the problem magically disappeared while I was coaxing the car back into the garage. One second it was running like crap then everything was back to normal in an instant. Seems like if it was a fuel problem that it wouldn't fix itself instantly. (Again, I'm just guessing).

So I'm still perplexed. Carb or ignition? I hate to do it but I'll probably toast $40 on a new coil just to rule that out.

Re: Could coil be my 440 ignition problem? [Re: Gusteve] #426167
08/06/09 06:59 PM
08/06/09 06:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 992
Simi Valley, CA
MoparJ Offline
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Simi Valley, CA
Quote:

I checked the floats a few weeks ago. Set them to specs per the manual by measuring them. Fuel filter is new (and I put in a clear one so I can see that there is gas in it).

I haven't actually inspected for dirt, as the carb was new and the car was never driven with it before I brought it back to life. (Edelbrock Performer 1407, IIRC)

Interesting thought on "driving home on the accelerator pump", but I don't think so. Once it stalls out, I can restart it and keep it running as long as I give it enough gas to stay at least at 2000rpm. I've probably done this for at least 30 seconds at a time, the engine will keep running as long as I have my foot on the pedal. (Not pumping the gas, just keeping the revs steady). Although it is running really poorly at that point. Seems like its only firing on 6 cylinders. And, if the bowls were low or out of fuel, where would the gas for the accelerator pump shot come from? (I'm not a carb expert, just trying to apply logic). Also, if it can idle fine in the garage, how long would it take for the bowls to refill after driving it 1/4 mile when its idling in the road? Seems like it wouldn't take much time at all.

Once I get back to my garage and turn it off, I can wait 20 minutes and fire it up and its fine. I doubt the bowls are filling up back up with the car off. And, as I mentioned in a previous post (and maybe this one), at least once the problem magically disappeared while I was coaxing the car back into the garage. One second it was running like crap then everything was back to normal in an instant. Seems like if it was a fuel problem that it wouldn't fix itself instantly. (Again, I'm just guessing).

So I'm still perplexed. Carb or ignition? I hate to do it but I'll probably toast $40 on a new coil just to rule that out.




Its the carb. I had a very similar issue with a 1406 a year or two back. It wasnt actually flooding, but it was running itself out of fuel and running extremely lean. As revs would come up, it would gradually run smoother and smoother, as it was running on the accelerator pump shot.
Something's not right with the carb.


2016 Ram 1500 Crew Cab: 5.7, 65RFE, 4.56 gears with locker, Hemifever tuned, AFE intake, 87mm throttle body, JBA headers, 3" Flowmaster exhaust, split to dual 2.5" exits. 13.57 best ET so far.

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Re: Could coil be my 440 ignition problem? [Re: MoparJ] #426168
08/06/09 07:18 PM
08/06/09 07:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,660
Flint, MI
Gusteve Offline OP
I Love the Unicorn Song!!
Gusteve  Offline OP
I Love the Unicorn Song!!

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,660
Flint, MI
Quote:

Its the carb. I had a very similar issue with a 1406 a year or two back. It wasnt actually flooding, but it was running itself out of fuel and running extremely lean. As revs would come up, it would gradually run smoother and smoother, as it was running on the accelerator pump shot.
Something's not right with the carb.




So what was wrong and how did you fix it?

Re: Could coil be my 440 ignition problem? [Re: Gusteve] #426169
08/06/09 07:21 PM
08/06/09 07:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 992
Simi Valley, CA
MoparJ Offline
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Simi Valley, CA
I adjusted the floats, but never got it to improve in any way. I shelved it and dropped another 1406 I had onto the motor and it ran fine after that.

I have the old one disassembled for rebuild, currently.


2016 Ram 1500 Crew Cab: 5.7, 65RFE, 4.56 gears with locker, Hemifever tuned, AFE intake, 87mm throttle body, JBA headers, 3" Flowmaster exhaust, split to dual 2.5" exits. 13.57 best ET so far.

Searching for new A or B Body Project!
Re: Could coil be my 440 ignition problem? [Re: MoparJ] #426170
08/06/09 07:28 PM
08/06/09 07:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,660
Flint, MI
Gusteve Offline OP
I Love the Unicorn Song!!
Gusteve  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,660
Flint, MI
Quote:

I shelved it and dropped another 1406 I had onto the motor and it ran fine after that.




Nice answer.

I have the factory carb, maybe I'll throw that on just to see what happens. It is probably junk, but if I have the same problem then at least I know its not the carb.

Re: Could coil be my 440 problem or is it carb? [Re: Gusteve] #426171
08/07/09 08:34 PM
08/07/09 08:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
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northwest USA
N
NANKET Offline
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northwest USA
Try a different coil, takes only a few minutes to change it.

Re: Could coil be my 440 ignition problem? [Re: Gusteve] #426172
08/08/09 09:12 AM
08/08/09 09:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,251
Slidell, LA
Ronnman Offline
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Slidell, LA
Gusteve,
Sounds like an electrical problem. Some where you have a bad or weak connection. When keeping the RPMs up you are making high voltage and over coming the problem although poorly. I would check the primary wiring from 12v source to the ballast, harness, ECU and coil. Also, check the coil and engine to firewall grounds. If you have a capacitor at the coil for radio suppression, disconnect it and run. Have you replaced the ballast resistor? Have you checked the voltage at the coil when having problems? You probably need a second hand to help check.
Ron

Re: Could coil be my 440 problem or is it carb? [Re: Gusteve] #426173
08/23/09 12:43 AM
08/23/09 12:43 AM
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northwest USA
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NANKET Offline
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Whatever became of the beast?

Re: Could coil be my 440 problem or is it carb? [Re: Gusteve] #426174
08/23/09 10:40 PM
08/23/09 10:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,107
Spring Valley ,Ca.
moparsquid Offline
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Spring Valley ,Ca.
Im having the same problem with my car(500ci,eddy heads,2-600 holleys, crossram, 528 flat tappet cam,apx 10 1/2 -1 cr, old dc elecrtonic tack-drive dist,accell yellow uni coil, and mp chrome box). checked floats good carbs rebuilt by highly rep person and all new fuel system , it just wont idle . Im planning to go to a MSD street fire cd and coil and see if this solves the problem. any thuoghts on this ?. thanks BOB







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