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Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection
[Re: hemigod426]
#366583
07/05/09 01:56 PM
07/05/09 01:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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i think it would look crazy hacked on stock looking muscle car, plus you would have to run all new feul system like race car all braided lines/an fittings, custum cell with efi pump, and return lines, then figure out were the mile of wires/computer are going to go? would be cool on old street rod. you can buy dual four intake/carbs/cleaner pretty cheap now id go that route,nothing sounds better than hemi with both carbs wide open 
OEM efi cars didn't run braided lines or an fittings, so I don't see why you bring that up. For EFI pumps there are several options that use a stock gas tank, fuel cell is not needed. If adding one return line is like pulling teeth to you, you probably don't know how to tune a carb anyway. Yes you will have to see the injectors and fuel rails, but if you run your wiring carefully and run an oval 6-pack style air cleaner you can hide most of the EFI hardware/fuel system, even with a multiport setup. And if laid out with care and combined with your stock wiring harness, the extra wiring for the efi system need not be clearly visible. Likely won't make it 100% invisible but you can hide a lot of it.
was just trying to prepare the guy for the radical changes he will have to do,he dosent know thanks why he was asking.so you have the capability to make your own stainless or plastic quick disconnect efi lines? how can you ass-ume i dont know carbs when all my cars are dual quad hemi or 440 six pack all rebuilt by me. lets see pics of your super clean efi install on anything.....nice winter car in sig 
You know I was going to say something, but judging by your attitude on your last two posts, I can see there is no use.
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Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection
[Re: hemigod426]
#366584
07/05/09 02:03 PM
07/05/09 02:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477
Canada
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I've never ran aftermarket EFI before, never done work on aftermarket EFI systems, and when I started my Coupe project I had no EFI experience whatsoever, but I wanted what I wanted so I paid to have somebody build me an intake and EFI setup. This is the first time I did anything like it so I had to research, ask dumb questions, and do a lot of trial and error.... I don't think you can see my fuel rails much, it's not extremely evident the car is EFI to many "old school" guys (like my friends LOL) but I think I took what I bought and changed it into something that had better form AND will have better function.. Lots of guys are more or less afraid of EFI or they won't try it because of cost.. but a good system should could and most times would give better all around performance.... just not more peak HP. Is that right Rich? Here's what I did to hide my fuel rails... 
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection
[Re: Dragula]
#366585
07/05/09 02:08 PM
07/05/09 02:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477
Canada
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Quote:
The system you saw for sale is an Accel DFI system, and they can be difficult to work with. Its a good deal price wise, but not easy to set-up or tune.
OK Dragula....  I still don't get this!
As I said, I'm no EFI expert, but the Accel gen7 stuff is just as straightforward to set up as the FAST systems you like is it not?
What's the difference?
Tuning the Accel is different software, but to me, from what I have now seen over the years, it's just different programs but the same basic approach. Both seem easy from what I have been able to see....
What is the big difference?
Rich, have you ever used an Accel gen7?? I know you are a FAST guy and sell FAST, but do you have any Accel experience? What would be hard about the gen7?
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection
[Re: Slipknot440]
#366586
07/05/09 03:24 PM
07/05/09 03:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,315
MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY
hemigod426
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,315
MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY
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slipnot440 if you want efi talk to this guy, he sells/tunes/builds the lastest and greatest fast and fast ez-efi systems for hemis. he sell/builds the stage-v converted 2x4 intake for ez-efi 4150 throttle bodies, this system is simple to control tiny onboard monitor, no laptop or interface. cheapest prices i have found and will give free info and tuning if needed go to www.fastmanefi.com by the way slipnot rocks hardcore 
MOPAR OR NO CAR
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Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection
[Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
#366588
07/05/09 04:13 PM
07/05/09 04:13 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Quote:
Quote:
The system you saw for sale is an Accel DFI system, and they can be difficult to work with. Its a good deal price wise, but not easy to set-up or tune.
OK Dragula.... I still don't get this!
As I said, I'm no EFI expert, but the Accel gen7 stuff is just as straightforward to set up as the FAST systems you like is it not?
What's the difference?
Tuning the Accel is different software, but to me, from what I have now seen over the years, it's just different programs but the same basic approach. Both seem easy from what I have been able to see....
What is the big difference?
The XFI is a lot easier to set-up and is not the same as my classic FAST or your system. It can learn the fuel map based on some run time which reduces the need for logging hours on the computer or dyno to sort out the base VE.
I started out with a based map from another engine, non-hemi, and went from there. I had no prior efi experience, and did a lot of research on it before buying a system. Then I had to get the intake ready and I went from there. Like you, I also tried to hide some of the wiring and sensors and make it nice and neat.
I have run this system on a number of hemi configurations, and getting the base VE right where it needs to be takes time and effort. If you change a basic parameter, that effect the entire map, your back to tweeking it again. The newer systems are easier, and will 'learn' the base VE as far as I know. I think that is a really big advantage in my eyes, but since I have not run one of the newer systems, I can only go based on what I have heard.
Last edited by Dragula; 07/05/09 04:27 PM.
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Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection
[Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
#366590
07/05/09 05:27 PM
07/05/09 05:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
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Quote:
Lots of guys are more or less afraid of EFI or they won't try it because of cost.. but a good system should could and most times would give better all around performance.... just not more peak HP.
Is that right Rich?
There's no question that drivabily improves as well as MPG, but the peak HP gain is minimal if you compare it to a well tuned single plane or tunnel ram. I have said it many times - you don't go to EFI for more peak power, just better running overall.
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Rich, have you ever used an Accel gen7?? I know you are a FAST guy and sell FAST, but do you have any Accel experience? What would be hard about the gen7?
When I decided to get back into EFI (I used to design EFI systems in the 70s) I had a few basic requirements that BOTH Accel DFI and FAST met. I would call them equal in any street or street/strip application. Yes, I have tuned DFI systems and I found it veri similar to FAST. The only reason I went with FAST is I knew (being a Mopar guy) that I'd be getting into a lot of custom installations such as Coil-On-Plug and stack style manifolds which are very critical to injector timing. I wanted to have a relationship with the key engineers. That was hard to do with Accel. They just wanted me to be a dealer. But with FAST, and my previous background with Comp Cams when I owned Mopar Engines West, I was able to get in direct communications with the design engineers. That communications has made all the difference in the world for those one off trick engines.
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Anybody know how to run nitrous with the EZ-efi setup?
Rich?
I wouldn't try it. The EZ system is constantly trying to learn what the engine wants and is doing. Nitrous confuses the ECU such that the engine will run poorly for a while after nitrous use. Stay with PORT injection with nitrous!
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Help?
I have a few documents on my tech download page that walk you through the entire EFI process. These files all begin "All you wanted to know about EFI but were afraid to ask".
That, together with my training CD and my tuning help will always get you there! I answer the phone and return my calls which today is valuable in itself.
BTW: Here's a pic of the Stage-V manifold I mentioned.
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Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection
[Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
#366592
07/07/09 12:39 AM
07/07/09 12:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,243
Canada
Kam*Kuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,243
Canada
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I just took and EFI course and I found it interesting how you can tune the timing over every rpm range (in 100 rpm increments) adjusting for build power and efficiency.
There is great potential for building part throttle power through timing adjustments, that you just cannot do easily with a regular distributor
1970 Barracuda Convertible
1968 Satellite Street Strip car
1654.5 Mustang
1955 Land Rover
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Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection
[Re: Kam*Kuda]
#366593
07/07/09 12:41 AM
07/07/09 12:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,243
Canada
Kam*Kuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,243
Canada
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FYI I went with the FAST XFI unit as well
Modec is supposed to be very good but $$$$
1970 Barracuda Convertible
1968 Satellite Street Strip car
1654.5 Mustang
1955 Land Rover
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Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection
[Re: Kam*Kuda]
#366594
07/07/09 12:45 AM
07/07/09 12:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
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Quote:
I just took and EFI course and I found it interesting how you can tune the timing over every rpm range (in 100 rpm increments) adjusting for build power and efficiency.
There is great potential for building part throttle power through timing adjustments, that you just cannot do easily with a regular distributor
You got that right. I try to cover this in detail in my book because most people think of the timing "curve" as a 2D curve. But in reality it's a 3D "surface". You can really improve part throttle drivability and MPG once you know this.
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Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#366595
07/07/09 12:51 AM
07/07/09 12:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,243
Canada
Kam*Kuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,243
Canada
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Absolutely. I always thought the power was in the A/F They did a dyno pull with a 450 engine. To ikkustrate the point they ran the car at a given rpm range and adjusted the A/F ratio while we watch the HP and TQ numbers. The power remained relatively the same over a fairly large A/F ratio range and then dropped off. They then did the same and adjusted the timing The power dropped off significantly when the timing was off just a couple degrees at any rpm range. This is a HUGE advantage of EFI that I was obvious too but must be second nature to experienced EFI tuners. You can really tune for power (with likely even better gas mileage) on a street or street/strip car that sees varying rpms and loads. Very Cool
1970 Barracuda Convertible
1968 Satellite Street Strip car
1654.5 Mustang
1955 Land Rover
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