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426 HEMI and Fuel Injection #366562
07/04/09 03:26 PM
07/04/09 03:26 PM
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Dalton, MA
Slipknot440 Offline OP
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Slipknot440  Offline OP
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looking at an EFI unit for my hemi and would like some opinions or experiences with EFI on an old school engine.

Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: Slipknot440] #366563
07/04/09 03:38 PM
07/04/09 03:38 PM
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Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
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What configuration intake are you looking at using?


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #366564
07/04/09 03:44 PM
07/04/09 03:44 PM
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Dalton, MA
Slipknot440 Offline OP
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it's an INDY set-up with the fuel rails going directly into the manifold. I don't know much about them on old cars, but seems like it would be better than my edelbrock 800 and m1 intake

Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: Slipknot440] #366565
07/04/09 04:11 PM
07/04/09 04:11 PM
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Canada
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If you have the intake I'm thinking the biggest decision is going to be which ECU.....?
When my intake was done it had injectors too small for the application installed, and the lines weren't done in a way in which I could leave on the car, the throttle bracket was made twice, once by the EFI guy and once by the engine builder, neither bracket would even work. There was no return provision for the fuel system whatsoever and somehow it was claimed it ran on a dyno. Who knows...

What I am saying is.... if I did it again I would do the intake conversion myself. No doubt about it! Nothing worse than paying to have something made, then not liking some things, some things don't work etc so you HAVE to remake things you've already (over)paid for....


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: Slipknot440] #366566
07/04/09 04:16 PM
07/04/09 04:16 PM
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MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY
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hemigod426 Offline
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Quote:

it's an INDY set-up with the fuel rails going directly into the manifold. I don't know much about them on old cars, but seems like it would be better than my edelbrock 800 and m1 intake


i think it would look crazy hacked on stock looking muscle car, plus you would have to run all new feul system like race car all braided lines/an fittings, custum cell with efi pump, and return lines, then figure out were the mile of wires/computer are going to go? would be cool on old street rod. you can buy dual four intake/carbs/cleaner pretty cheap now id go that route,nothing sounds better than hemi with both carbs wide open


MOPAR OR NO CAR
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #366567
07/04/09 04:16 PM
07/04/09 04:16 PM
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Canada
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This is what I paid money for and got..

5333041-oldlines.jpg (217 downloads)

CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #366568
07/04/09 04:16 PM
07/04/09 04:16 PM
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Dalton, MA
Slipknot440 Offline OP
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it's moparts member that has one for sale with the ecu, rails, manifold, throttle body etc. says its complete. hhow has the performance been with it as opposed to the carb?

Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #366569
07/04/09 04:17 PM
07/04/09 04:17 PM
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Canada
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This is what I did myself, WITH a proper return system.... and correct injectors.....

5333047-railsdone.jpg (221 downloads)

CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: Slipknot440] #366570
07/04/09 04:21 PM
07/04/09 04:21 PM
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Canada
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Quote:

it's moparts member that has one for sale with the ecu, rails, manifold, throttle body etc. says its complete. hhow has the performance been with it as opposed to the carb?





Mine isn't running yet. I'm sure tomatoes will be thrown at me soon if it doesn't get running.
Mine is an individual runner intake, which is different than most intakes as far as characteristics go. I think the absolute ultimate hp numbers can usually be gotten with a carb if I'm not mistaken, but when the horsepower and torque are measured from idle to top rpm there wouldn't be much of a comparison in most cases, the EFI provides a well tuned engine for A/F ratios compared to carbs. Depends on the system and who tunes it I guess...


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: hemigod426] #366571
07/04/09 04:23 PM
07/04/09 04:23 PM
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85086
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Quote:

Quote:

it's an INDY set-up with the fuel rails going directly into the manifold. I don't know much about them on old cars, but seems like it would be better than my edelbrock 800 and m1 intake


i think it would look crazy hacked on stock looking muscle car, plus you would have to run all new feul system like race car all braided lines/an fittings, custum cell with efi pump, and return lines, then figure out were the mile of wires/computer are going to go? would be cool on old street rod. you can buy dual four intake/carbs/cleaner pretty cheap now id go that route,nothing sounds better than hemi with both carbs wide open




Looks pretty hacked up to me.


56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: moparpollack] #366572
07/04/09 06:10 PM
07/04/09 06:10 PM
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Duloc
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The Shadow Offline
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My hemi is fuel injected.
If you don't like quick starting and smooth idling than stick with a carb.
Tim at FHO has a 2-4 fi setup that once the air cleaner is on you would never know it was injected.
The biggest thing is the system that you run.
I have a Fast xfi but if you get into buying a older antiquated system the tuning headaches wont be worth it.
Fuel injection is awesome.

Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: The Shadow] #366573
07/04/09 10:42 PM
07/04/09 10:42 PM
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Dalton, MA
Slipknot440 Offline OP
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would it add any more power or just make the power available more readily available/efficient. fuel mileage?

Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: Slipknot440] #366574
07/04/09 11:09 PM
07/04/09 11:09 PM
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Quote:

would it add any more power or just make the power available more readily available/efficient. fuel mileage?




More power depends on how good you are at tuning a carb. I will tinker with a carb to get everything I can out of it, but most systems, efi vs carb, are within a few ponies. The advantages of the efi are super easy starting and idling, along with far better milage. There are systems out there that are not a lot of hassle. The new EZ-EFI from FAST is one that is self learning, and does not require a laptop.

I have been running EFI on Hemis for some time now, and like anything else, a well designed system will keep you away from many of the issues that can plague an engine converted to EFI with the wrong componants.

I run the older classic FAST system on my hemi, and would not trade it for two carbs. The system you saw for sale is an Accel DFI system, and they can be difficult to work with. Its a good deal price wise, but not easy to set-up or tune.

My car right out of winter storage for a Febuary in Buffalo car show....
[image][/image]


Race Tune with full mufflers
[image][/image]

Mopar Nats, street tune-up
[image][/image]


EZ-EFI by FAST
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IX1F4V1Yi0


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: hemigod426] #366575
07/05/09 04:32 AM
07/05/09 04:32 AM
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Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Quote:

i think it would look crazy hacked on stock looking muscle car, plus you would have to run all new feul system like race car all braided lines/an fittings, custum cell with efi pump, and return lines, then figure out were the mile of wires/computer are going to go? would be cool on old street rod. you can buy dual four intake/carbs/cleaner pretty cheap now id go that route,nothing sounds better than hemi with both carbs wide open




OEM efi cars didn't run braided lines or an fittings, so I don't see why you bring that up. For EFI pumps there are several options that use a stock gas tank, fuel cell is not needed. If adding one return line is like pulling teeth to you, you probably don't know how to tune a carb anyway. Yes you will have to see the injectors and fuel rails, but if you run your wiring carefully and run an oval 6-pack style air cleaner you can hide most of the EFI hardware/fuel system, even with a multiport setup. And if laid out with care and combined with your stock wiring harness, the extra wiring for the efi system need not be clearly visible. Likely won't make it 100% invisible but you can hide a lot of it.

Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: Slipknot440] #366576
07/05/09 12:12 PM
07/05/09 12:12 PM
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Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
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Quote:

looking at an EFI unit for my hemi and would like some opinions or experiences with EFI on an old school engine.




You should checkout the photos page on my web site.
www.fastmanefi.com

I've done a "ton" of EFI Hemis. Probably more than anyone else. Personally I like the new dual TB manifold from Stage-V. Let me know if I can assist in any way.

Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: Slipknot440] #366577
07/05/09 12:30 PM
07/05/09 12:30 PM
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So Cal
HealthServices Offline
Why would you even post that?
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Be aware that some systems don't work well with too radical of a cam. So If you are going in this direction, ask to see if it will run well with your cam.


Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #366578
07/05/09 01:02 PM
07/05/09 01:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,315
MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY
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hemigod426 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

i think it would look crazy hacked on stock looking muscle car, plus you would have to run all new feul system like race car all braided lines/an fittings, custum cell with efi pump, and return lines, then figure out were the mile of wires/computer are going to go? would be cool on old street rod. you can buy dual four intake/carbs/cleaner pretty cheap now id go that route,nothing sounds better than hemi with both carbs wide open




OEM efi cars didn't run braided lines or an fittings, so I don't see why you bring that up. For EFI pumps there are several options that use a stock gas tank, fuel cell is not needed. If adding one return line is like pulling teeth to you, you probably don't know how to tune a carb anyway. Yes you will have to see the injectors and fuel rails, but if you run your wiring carefully and run an oval 6-pack style air cleaner you can hide most of the EFI hardware/fuel system, even with a multiport setup. And if laid out with care and combined with your stock wiring harness, the extra wiring for the efi system need not be clearly visible. Likely won't make it 100% invisible but you can hide a lot of it.


was just trying to prepare the guy for the radical changes he will have to do,he dosent know thanks why he was asking.so you have the capability to make your own stainless or plastic quick disconnect efi lines? how can you ass-ume i dont know carbs when all my cars are dual quad hemi or 440 six pack all rebuilt by me. lets see pics of your super clean efi install on anything.....nice winter car in sig


MOPAR OR NO CAR
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: hemigod426] #366579
07/05/09 01:25 PM
07/05/09 01:25 PM
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Posts: 2,175
Duloc
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The Shadow Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

i think it would look crazy hacked on stock looking muscle car, plus you would have to run all new feul system like race car all braided lines/an fittings, custum cell with efi pump, and return lines, then figure out were the mile of wires/computer are going to go? would be cool on old street rod. you can buy dual four intake/carbs/cleaner pretty cheap now id go that route,nothing sounds better than hemi with both carbs wide open




OEM efi cars didn't run braided lines or an fittings, so I don't see why you bring that up. For EFI pumps there are several options that use a stock gas tank, fuel cell is not needed. If adding one return line is like pulling teeth to you, you probably don't know how to tune a carb anyway. Yes you will have to see the injectors and fuel rails, but if you run your wiring carefully and run an oval 6-pack style air cleaner you can hide most of the EFI hardware/fuel system, even with a multiport setup. And if laid out with care and combined with your stock wiring harness, the extra wiring for the efi system need not be clearly visible. Likely won't make it 100% invisible but you can hide a lot of it.


was just trying to prepare the guy for the radical changes he will have to do,he dosent know thanks why he was asking.so you have the capability to make your own stainless or plastic quick disconnect efi lines? how can you ass-ume i dont know carbs when all my cars are dual quad hemi or 440 six pack all rebuilt by me. lets see pics of your super clean efi install on anything.....nice winter car in sig



You appear to have absolutely have no idea what your talking about
Why would you need quick disconnect efi lines? The only major changes to the fuel system is a return line,high pressure pump, and regulator
Just look at some of Rich's installs if you want any idea of how neat efi systems can be.
Don't keep your head in the sand when it comes to F.I. The technology is incredible.

Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: hemigod426] #366580
07/05/09 01:33 PM
07/05/09 01:33 PM
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buffalo, new york
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00snake530 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

i think it would look crazy hacked on stock looking muscle car, plus you would have to run all new feul system like race car all braided lines/an fittings, custum cell with efi pump, and return lines, then figure out were the mile of wires/computer are going to go? would be cool on old street rod. you can buy dual four intake/carbs/cleaner pretty cheap now id go that route,nothing sounds better than hemi with both carbs wide open




OEM efi cars didn't run braided lines or an fittings, so I don't see why you bring that up. For EFI pumps there are several options that use a stock gas tank, fuel cell is not needed. If adding one return line is like pulling teeth to you, you probably don't know how to tune a carb anyway. Yes you will have to see the injectors and fuel rails, but if you run your wiring carefully and run an oval 6-pack style air cleaner you can hide most of the EFI hardware/fuel system, even with a multiport setup. And if laid out with care and combined with your stock wiring harness, the extra wiring for the efi system need not be clearly visible. Likely won't make it 100% invisible but you can hide a lot of it.


was just trying to prepare the guy for the radical changes he will have to do,he dosent know thanks why he was asking.so you have the capability to make your own stainless or plastic quick disconnect efi lines? how can you ass-ume i dont know carbs when all my cars are dual quad hemi or 440 six pack all rebuilt by me. lets see pics of your super clean efi install on anything.....nice winter car in sig





70 Challenger r/t 4 speed
00 Viper gts
67 satellite pro street
03 Ferrari 360 spider
50 chevy fleetline deluxe
15 Escalade (daily)
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: The Shadow] #366581
07/05/09 01:36 PM
07/05/09 01:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,315
MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY
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hemigod426 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

i think it would look crazy hacked on stock looking muscle car, plus you would have to run all new feul system like race car all braided lines/an fittings, custum cell with efi pump, and return lines, then figure out were the mile of wires/computer are going to go? would be cool on old street rod. you can buy dual four intake/carbs/cleaner pretty cheap now id go that route,nothing sounds better than hemi with both carbs wide open




OEM efi cars didn't run braided lines or an fittings, so I don't see why you bring that up. For EFI pumps there are several options that use a stock gas tank, fuel cell is not needed. If adding one return line is like pulling teeth to you, you probably don't know how to tune a carb anyway. Yes you will have to see the injectors and fuel rails, but if you run your wiring carefully and run an oval 6-pack style air cleaner you can hide most of the EFI hardware/fuel system, even with a multiport setup. And if laid out with care and combined with your stock wiring harness, the extra wiring for the efi system need not be clearly visible. Likely won't make it 100% invisible but you can hide a lot of it.


was just trying to prepare the guy for the radical changes he will have to do,he dosent know thanks why he was asking.so you have the capability to make your own stainless or plastic quick disconnect efi lines? how can you ass-ume i dont know carbs when all my cars are dual quad hemi or 440 six pack all rebuilt by me. lets see pics of your super clean efi install on anything.....nice winter car in sig



You appear to have absolutely have no idea what your talking about
Why would you need quick disconnect efi lines? The only major changes to the fuel system is a return line,high pressure pump, and regulator
Just look at some of Rich's installs if you want any idea of how neat efi systems can be.
Don't keep your head in the sand when it comes to F.I. The technology is incredible.


yes ive looked at them for years, now the tech, and manifolds i want are finally here have talked to tim-b about the 2x4 efi on stage-v street hemi intake allready, wont be long before i convert a carbed hemi over


MOPAR OR NO CAR
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: hemigod426] #366582
07/05/09 01:49 PM
07/05/09 01:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 117
buffalo, new york
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00snake530 Offline
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buffalo, new york
I like the F.I. on the pro-touring/pro-street cars, but i would keep the 2X4 oem look for the nice original/ original looking stuff


70 Challenger r/t 4 speed
00 Viper gts
67 satellite pro street
03 Ferrari 360 spider
50 chevy fleetline deluxe
15 Escalade (daily)
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: hemigod426] #366583
07/05/09 01:56 PM
07/05/09 01:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

i think it would look crazy hacked on stock looking muscle car, plus you would have to run all new feul system like race car all braided lines/an fittings, custum cell with efi pump, and return lines, then figure out were the mile of wires/computer are going to go? would be cool on old street rod. you can buy dual four intake/carbs/cleaner pretty cheap now id go that route,nothing sounds better than hemi with both carbs wide open




OEM efi cars didn't run braided lines or an fittings, so I don't see why you bring that up. For EFI pumps there are several options that use a stock gas tank, fuel cell is not needed. If adding one return line is like pulling teeth to you, you probably don't know how to tune a carb anyway. Yes you will have to see the injectors and fuel rails, but if you run your wiring carefully and run an oval 6-pack style air cleaner you can hide most of the EFI hardware/fuel system, even with a multiport setup. And if laid out with care and combined with your stock wiring harness, the extra wiring for the efi system need not be clearly visible. Likely won't make it 100% invisible but you can hide a lot of it.


was just trying to prepare the guy for the radical changes he will have to do,he dosent know thanks why he was asking.so you have the capability to make your own stainless or plastic quick disconnect efi lines? how can you ass-ume i dont know carbs when all my cars are dual quad hemi or 440 six pack all rebuilt by me. lets see pics of your super clean efi install on anything.....nice winter car in sig




You know I was going to say something, but judging by your attitude on your last two posts, I can see there is no use.

Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: hemigod426] #366584
07/05/09 02:03 PM
07/05/09 02:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
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I've never ran aftermarket EFI before, never done work on aftermarket EFI systems, and when I started my Coupe project I had no EFI experience whatsoever, but I wanted what I wanted so I paid to have somebody build me an intake and EFI setup.
This is the first time I did anything like it so I had to research, ask dumb questions, and do a lot of trial and error....

I don't think you can see my fuel rails much, it's not extremely evident the car is EFI to many "old school" guys (like my friends LOL) but I think I took what I bought and changed it into something that had better form AND will have better function..
Lots of guys are more or less afraid of EFI or they won't try it because of cost.. but a good system should could and most times would give better all around performance.... just not more peak HP.
Is that right Rich?

Here's what I did to hide my fuel rails...



CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: Dragula] #366585
07/05/09 02:08 PM
07/05/09 02:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
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Quote:

The system you saw for sale is an Accel DFI system, and they can be difficult to work with. Its a good deal price wise, but not easy to set-up or tune.






OK Dragula.... I still don't get this!
As I said, I'm no EFI expert, but the Accel gen7 stuff is just as straightforward to set up as the FAST systems you like is it not?
What's the difference?

Tuning the Accel is different software, but to me, from what I have now seen over the years, it's just different programs but the same basic approach. Both seem easy from what I have been able to see....

What is the big difference?

Rich, have you ever used an Accel gen7?? I know you are a FAST guy and sell FAST, but do you have any Accel experience? What would be hard about the gen7?


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: Slipknot440] #366586
07/05/09 03:24 PM
07/05/09 03:24 PM
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Posts: 2,315
MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY
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hemigod426 Offline
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slipnot440 if you want efi talk to this guy, he sells/tunes/builds the lastest and greatest fast and fast ez-efi systems for hemis. he sell/builds the stage-v converted 2x4 intake for ez-efi 4150 throttle bodies, this system is simple to control tiny onboard monitor, no laptop or interface. cheapest prices i have found and will give free info and tuning if needed go to www.fastmanefi.com by the way slipnot rocks hardcore


MOPAR OR NO CAR
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: hemigod426] #366587
07/05/09 03:58 PM
07/05/09 03:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
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Canada
Quote:

slipnot440 if you want efi talk to this guy, he sells/tunes/builds the lastest and greatest fast and fast ez-efi systems for hemis. he sell/builds the stage-v converted 2x4 intake for ez-efi 4150 throttle bodies, this system is simple to control tiny onboard monitor, no laptop or interface. cheapest prices i have found and will give free info and tuning if needed go to www.fastmanefi.com by the way slipnot rocks hardcore




Anybody know how to run nitrous with the EZ-efi setup?

Rich?


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #366588
07/05/09 04:13 PM
07/05/09 04:13 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Quote:

Quote:

The system you saw for sale is an Accel DFI system, and they can be difficult to work with. Its a good deal price wise, but not easy to set-up or tune.






OK Dragula.... I still don't get this!
As I said, I'm no EFI expert, but the Accel gen7 stuff is just as straightforward to set up as the FAST systems you like is it not?
What's the difference?

Tuning the Accel is different software, but to me, from what I have now seen over the years, it's just different programs but the same basic approach. Both seem easy from what I have been able to see....

What is the big difference?




The XFI is a lot easier to set-up and is not the same as my classic FAST or your system. It can learn the fuel map based on some run time which reduces the need for logging hours on the computer or dyno to sort out the base VE.

I started out with a based map from another engine, non-hemi, and went from there. I had no prior efi experience, and did a lot of research on it before buying a system. Then I had to get the intake ready and I went from there. Like you, I also tried to hide some of the wiring and sensors and make it nice and neat.

I have run this system on a number of hemi configurations, and getting the base VE right where it needs to be takes time and effort. If you change a basic parameter, that effect the entire map, your back to tweeking it again. The newer systems are easier, and will 'learn' the base VE as far as I know. I think that is a really big advantage in my eyes, but since I have not run one of the newer systems, I can only go based on what I have heard.

Last edited by Dragula; 07/05/09 04:27 PM.

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: Dragula] #366589
07/05/09 04:42 PM
07/05/09 04:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,287
Dalton, MA
Slipknot440 Offline OP
master
Slipknot440  Offline OP
master

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,287
Dalton, MA
i'm not to worried about the look of the car. It's orignally an orange 383 car...and in 19 years it's been through 3 paint jobs, 1 more orange and 2 green (last one in 1996) the 383 was scapped for a 440, the 440 was sold to pay for hemi parts, the hemi has been trashed once and is currently sitting on a dyno waiting for some test runs. The fuel rails and some extra wiring under the hood is not really going to hurt the look or originality of the car. My only issue, if i buy, will be getting an extra hand for install and finding an air cleaner.

Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #366590
07/05/09 05:27 PM
07/05/09 05:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
top fuel
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Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Quote:

Lots of guys are more or less afraid of EFI or they won't try it because of cost.. but a good system should could and most times would give better all around performance.... just not more peak HP.
Is that right Rich?




There's no question that drivabily improves as well as MPG, but the peak HP gain is minimal if you compare it to a well tuned single plane or tunnel ram. I have said it many times - you don't go to EFI for more peak power, just better running overall.


Quote:

Rich, have you ever used an Accel gen7?? I know you are a FAST guy and sell FAST, but do you have any Accel experience? What would be hard about the gen7?




When I decided to get back into EFI (I used to design EFI systems in the 70s) I had a few basic requirements that BOTH Accel DFI and FAST met. I would call them equal in any street or street/strip application. Yes, I have tuned DFI systems and I found it veri similar to FAST. The only reason I went with FAST is I knew (being a Mopar guy) that I'd be getting into a lot of custom installations such as Coil-On-Plug and stack style manifolds which are very critical to injector timing. I wanted to have a relationship with the key engineers. That was hard to do with Accel. They just wanted me to be a dealer. But with FAST, and my previous background with Comp Cams when I owned Mopar Engines West, I was able to get in direct communications with the design engineers. That communications has made all the difference in the world for those one off trick engines.


Quote:

Anybody know how to run nitrous with the EZ-efi setup?
Rich?




I wouldn't try it. The EZ system is constantly trying to learn what the engine wants and is doing. Nitrous confuses the ECU such that the engine will run poorly for a while after nitrous use. Stay with PORT injection with nitrous!


Quote:

Help?



I have a few documents on my tech download page that walk you through the entire EFI process. These files all begin "All you wanted to know about EFI but were afraid to ask".
That, together with my training CD and my tuning help will always get you there! I answer the phone and return my calls which today is valuable in itself.

BTW: Here's a pic of the Stage-V manifold I mentioned.

Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: Mopar_Rich] #366591
07/05/09 08:23 PM
07/05/09 08:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here
CrAzYMoPaRGuY  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
Quote:




Quote:

Anybody know how to run nitrous with the EZ-efi setup?
Rich?




I wouldn't try it. The EZ system is constantly trying to learn what the engine wants and is doing. Nitrous confuses the ECU such that the engine will run poorly for a while after nitrous use. Stay with PORT injection with nitrous!






Awesome. Thanks!
My buddy just got his car running with the EZ-efi setup and wanted to run nitrous, I'll relay your suggestion!



CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #366592
07/07/09 12:39 AM
07/07/09 12:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,243
Canada
Kam*Kuda Offline
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Kam*Kuda  Offline
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Canada
I just took and EFI course and I found it interesting how you can tune the timing over every rpm range (in 100 rpm increments) adjusting for build power and efficiency.

There is great potential for building part throttle power through timing adjustments, that you just cannot do easily with a regular distributor


1970 Barracuda Convertible
1968 Satellite Street Strip car
1654.5 Mustang
1955 Land Rover
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: Kam*Kuda] #366593
07/07/09 12:41 AM
07/07/09 12:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,243
Canada
Kam*Kuda Offline
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Kam*Kuda  Offline
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Canada
FYI I went with the FAST XFI unit as well
Modec is supposed to be very good but $$$$


1970 Barracuda Convertible
1968 Satellite Street Strip car
1654.5 Mustang
1955 Land Rover
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: Kam*Kuda] #366594
07/07/09 12:45 AM
07/07/09 12:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
top fuel
Mopar_Rich  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Quote:

I just took and EFI course and I found it interesting how you can tune the timing over every rpm range (in 100 rpm increments) adjusting for build power and efficiency.

There is great potential for building part throttle power through timing adjustments, that you just cannot do easily with a regular distributor




You got that right. I try to cover this in detail in my book because most people think of the timing "curve" as a 2D curve. But in reality it's a 3D "surface". You can really improve part throttle drivability and MPG once you know this.

Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: Mopar_Rich] #366595
07/07/09 12:51 AM
07/07/09 12:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,243
Canada
Kam*Kuda Offline
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Kam*Kuda  Offline
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Canada
Absolutely. I always thought the power was in the A/F They did a dyno pull with a 450 engine. To ikkustrate the point they ran the car at a given rpm range and adjusted the A/F ratio while we watch the HP and TQ numbers. The power remained relatively the same over a fairly large A/F ratio range and then dropped off. They then did the same and adjusted the timing The power dropped off significantly when the timing was off just a couple degrees at any rpm range.

This is a HUGE advantage of EFI that I was obvious too but must be second nature to experienced EFI tuners.

You can really tune for power (with likely even better gas mileage) on a street or street/strip car that sees varying rpms and loads.
Very Cool


1970 Barracuda Convertible
1968 Satellite Street Strip car
1654.5 Mustang
1955 Land Rover
Re: 426 HEMI and Fuel Injection [Re: Kam*Kuda] #366596
07/07/09 10:54 AM
07/07/09 10:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
top fuel
Mopar_Rich  Offline
top fuel

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Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Non-EFI timing curves use RPM and maybe some vacuum advance is added at low load conditions. That's about it. And the typical MSD curve is a simple spring determined ramp, from the initial value at idle, to the total timing at some RPM.

A well designed timing "curve" looks at RPM and engine LOAD and uses as much advance that the engine wants at any given point. The result is the best engine efficiency even at part load conditions where we spend most of our time. Torque goes up while fuel usage goes down.

Good luck with your project.


The problem is that it takes a while to do this under static conditions and the tuner must be up to the task. But once done, the results are quite impressive.

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