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cast crank on to 451 stroker #363001
06/30/09 06:21 PM
06/30/09 06:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
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Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline OP
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NachoRT74  Offline OP
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give me one REASONABLE REASON to not use a cast crank on to 451 stroker engine IF IS A TOTALLY STREET CAR and maybe just an ocasional WOT on a traffic light with some stupid guy challenging.

NOTICE I'M TALKING ABOUT A TOTALLY STREET CAR... I mean that because 80% of members on all boards thinks only on race/strip cars


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: NachoRT74] #363002
06/30/09 07:50 PM
06/30/09 07:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 660
Oklahoma City, OK
Dave64 Offline
mopar
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Oklahoma City, OK
Use it. It will work fine.

Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: NachoRT74] #363003
06/30/09 10:00 PM
06/30/09 10:00 PM
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Upper Midwest
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MoparforLife Offline
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Upper Midwest
Mopar cranks are over kill. Not noted for breakage.

Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: MoparforLife] #363004
06/30/09 10:06 PM
06/30/09 10:06 PM
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Arlington, Texas
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bobby66 Offline
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Get the right balancer and flex plate.

Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: bobby66] #363005
06/30/09 10:26 PM
06/30/09 10:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
If everything is going to be (re)balanced can the std dampener be used rather than the oddball one? Nacho what pistons are you going with


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: RapidRobert] #363006
06/30/09 10:43 PM
06/30/09 10:43 PM
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Upper Midwest
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MoparforLife Offline
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Quote:

If everything is going to be (re)balanced can the std dampener be used rather than the oddball one? Nacho what pistons are you going with


Sure if you have the assembly neutrally balanced. It will take some slugs of mallry metal to do it.

Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: MoparforLife] #363007
07/01/09 12:14 AM
07/01/09 12:14 AM
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Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline OP
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is a VERY future plan, since I'm working now on KB240s piston setup. I want to go step by step, beside the fact I got everything BEFORE get this crank ( FOR FREE BTW )

I would use the same pieces I have now... my actual 400 damper, already counterweights on TC, and rods... well just if I get some 440s dirty cheap will use them, but being will be hard LOCALLY, use my existant 400 rods is actually on plans... yes I know, rod ratio and everything about rods weight, but as stated is STREET and on the other side, pistons will be with longer skirts.

I have been adviced about use just forged crank to make this, but REALLY I'm not thinking on race ( ever ). I get scared at high speeds, but likes to feel the WOT sensation quite often, that's why I KNOW FOR SURE I won't race. I don't consider myself a pilot, and I'm very respectfull with speeds, specially on an American Car.


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: NachoRT74] #363008
07/01/09 12:31 AM
07/01/09 12:31 AM
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Posts: 1,202
California
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polkat Offline
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Did I read this right? You plan to use everything you already have, and are using KB240's? Unless I'm mistaken, KB240's were designed for a standard stroke 400 to increase compression. Even with short rods they would stick up way too far with an RB crank...or am I wrong?

Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: polkat] #363009
07/01/09 12:42 AM
07/01/09 12:42 AM
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The Dalles, OR.
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Dusted_Ya Offline
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not to mention a 400 dampener and a 440 dampener are counterweighted differently.

Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: polkat] #363010
07/01/09 01:21 AM
07/01/09 01:21 AM
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Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline OP
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Quote:

Did I read this right? You plan to use everything you already have, and are using KB240's? Unless I'm mistaken, KB240's were designed for a standard stroke 400 to increase compression. Even with short rods they would stick up way too far with an RB crank...or am I wrong?




nooo way... I'm telling I'm soon to work on KB240s pistons upgrade with my 400 block and crank because I already have everything of that in hands. So my actual project is still running. The 451 stroker is a very future plan and depending on budget for that moment will go with the rest of parts. I just got the 440 cast crank in hands for free but I will keep my plan on the piston upgrade to my actual 400 setup, will have fun with that and then will go for the next step with the stroker.


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: Dusted_Ya] #363011
07/01/09 01:24 AM
07/01/09 01:24 AM
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Posts: 6,089
Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline OP
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Quote:

not to mention a 400 dampener and a 440 dampener are counterweighted differently.




really? didn't know that I thought where the same.

what about TC counterweights ? are they different ? or are they simply the same but positioned different ?

diff flywheel/flexplate ?


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: NachoRT74] #363012
07/01/09 07:17 AM
07/01/09 07:17 AM
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Arlington, Texas
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bobby66 Offline
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If you have to add mallory to balance it you might as well get a steel crank.

Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: NachoRT74] #363013
07/01/09 08:32 AM
07/01/09 08:32 AM
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lewiston, ID
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cornucopia Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

not to mention a 400 dampener and a 440 dampener are counterweighted differently.




really? didn't know that I thought where the same.

what about TC counterweights ? are they different ? or are they simply the same but positioned different ?

diff flywheel/flexplate ?


the 400 and 440 cast crank have the same balance factor. you can interchange the weighted converters and flywheels with no problem.

Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: cornucopia] #363014
07/01/09 09:47 AM
07/01/09 09:47 AM
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Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline OP
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but is true the dampener is diff between 440 and 400 cast cranks ?


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: NachoRT74] #363015
07/01/09 11:35 AM
07/01/09 11:35 AM
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Columbia, CT
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moper Offline
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You can. But, you will spend some cash to have the cast crank counterweights turned down to fit your block in addition to the normal turnign down of the mians, and you wil need to mock up the block because I'd bet they hit the main webbing a little too. Then you have the balancing issues. You need a 440 dampner for the cast crank, plus the torque convertor weight for the 440, plus you'll need mallory anyway because you turned off a couple hundred thou of counterweight metal on the outer edge of it... It sounds like a smart a answer, but just buy the 440Source B wedge 3.75 stroke crank and run that (after it's checked for size and taper). It's a lot less hassle. Then you can run any nuetral (forged crank) balancer and any nuetral convertor, and won't need any mallory.


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: NachoRT74] #363016
07/01/09 11:39 AM
07/01/09 11:39 AM
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Arlington, Texas
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bobby66 Offline
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Quote:

but is true the dampener is diff between 440 and 400 cast cranks ?




There are pictures of the dampeners in question in the tech archive section. Look pretty different to me.

Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: moper] #363017
07/01/09 11:50 AM
07/01/09 11:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089
Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline OP
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ok, if so, then is becoming HARDER with a cast crank to make it work.

where would meet to need to turned down the counterweights ? aren't the 400 and 440 block same room inside on area below cilinders ? the oil pan is the same, gaskets and everything. Block is diff being taller, but thats on top, not on bottom of cilinders. Timming chain is teh same so distance between crank and camshaft is the same, so block should it be basically the same above crank level... or not ?

( yes I know about the 440source stuff )

then, you are saying about the TC weight for the 440, but some of the rest of ppl is telling opposite, being the same than my 400 TC ( already MP unit with weights welded )

then also on diagrams to mount TC counterweights, sheet states 383/400 but doesn't say 440.

Ok I still can't believe we CAN'T get an agreement on some that should it be already stablished.


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: bobby66] #363018
07/01/09 11:51 AM
07/01/09 11:51 AM
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Posts: 6,089
Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline OP
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Valencia, España
Quote:

Quote:

but is true the dampener is diff between 440 and 400 cast cranks ?




There are pictures of the dampeners in question in the tech archive section. Look pretty different to me.




aren't those pics making comparision between forged and cast crank dampeners ?... I'm talking about being both cast cranks.


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: NachoRT74] #363019
07/01/09 11:59 AM
07/01/09 11:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089
Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline OP
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then... why I would need to turnd down a cast crank and not a forged crank IF both are same stroke, so same size ?


ok, guys maybe is my ignorance but lot of this stuff sounds simply without logic.


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: cast crank on to 451 stroker [Re: NachoRT74] #363020
07/01/09 03:24 PM
07/01/09 03:24 PM
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Posts: 754
Longview, Texas
marvo451 Offline
super stock
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You would theoretically have to turn the counterweights on any 440 crank to make a low deck 451 as the counterweight diameter is larger than on a 400. Also, a steel crank is heavier than a cast one and because of that will internally balance.

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