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Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: 70Cuda383] #358346
06/26/09 09:07 PM
06/26/09 09:07 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

The coil is a. Coil. Power on pos goes thru coil and show on the neg terminal. That creates a field when neg is grounded. Remove the gnd and field collapses and jumps to secondary out to plugs ( spark)




ok. I always wondered how the volage going in circles around the middle would create a charge...that makes sense though.

so if the coil is grounded, and then the ground is removed, it SHOULD fire, right? and if it doesn't then it's most likely someting broken in the coil?

I'll try that before hooking the ignition box back up to it and cranking away again to see if ti was the tach or not.


yes. but disconnect the tach cause ive seen tachs cause no start conditions before.

since the coil + to coil - is a coil of wire, there should be a resistance between them. you said it shows open (infinity) right? or was it really low like 0? if its open (infinity) then the coil is bad

Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: 70Cuda383] #358347
06/26/09 09:10 PM
06/26/09 09:10 PM
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look at this and it might help you out. http://www.instructables.com/community/Ignition-Coil/

Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: aarcuda] #358348
06/26/09 09:14 PM
06/26/09 09:14 PM
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Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: aarcuda] #358349
06/26/09 09:15 PM
06/26/09 09:15 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The coil is a. Coil. Power on pos goes thru coil and show on the neg terminal. That creates a field when neg is grounded. Remove the gnd and field collapses and jumps to secondary out to plugs ( spark)




ok. I always wondered how the volage going in circles around the middle would create a charge...that makes sense though.

so if the coil is grounded, and then the ground is removed, it SHOULD fire, right? and if it doesn't then it's most likely someting broken in the coil?

I'll try that before hooking the ignition box back up to it and cranking away again to see if ti was the tach or not.


yes. but disconnect the tach cause ive seen tachs cause no start conditions before.

since the coil + to coil - is a coil of wire, there should be a resistance between them. you said it shows open (infinity) right? or was it really low like 0? if its open (infinity) then the coil is bad




it's closed, zero resistance. I didn't know if there was supposed tobe a few ohms of resistance or not.


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Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: 70Cuda383] #358350
06/26/09 09:20 PM
06/26/09 09:20 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The coil is a. Coil. Power on pos goes thru coil and show on the neg terminal. That creates a field when neg is grounded. Remove the gnd and field collapses and jumps to secondary out to plugs ( spark)




ok. I always wondered how the volage going in circles around the middle would create a charge...that makes sense though.

so if the coil is grounded, and then the ground is removed, it SHOULD fire, right? and if it doesn't then it's most likely someting broken in the coil?

I'll try that before hooking the ignition box back up to it and cranking away again to see if ti was the tach or not.


yes. but disconnect the tach cause ive seen tachs cause no start conditions before.

since the coil + to coil - is a coil of wire, there should be a resistance between them. you said it shows open (infinity) right? or was it really low like 0? if its open (infinity) then the coil is bad




it's closed, zero resistance. I didn't know if there was supposed tobe a few ohms of resistance or not.


ahhhh, ya, zero sounds wrong. id expect some resistance. to know what the resistance should be, you'll have to go to the msd site and see if they list it. else you could call them on monday or swap in a different coil.

shouldnt you be running a ballast resister with that coil?

Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: aarcuda] #358351
06/26/09 09:23 PM
06/26/09 09:23 PM
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yup, a ballast resister is needed. you probably smoked the coil.

http://www.msdpower.com/download/8202.pdf

but you did just install a master kill switch. how is it wired? the timing seems very suspicious.

EDIT
I found this: http://www.blowbyracing.com/msdblastercoil.html

says the primary resistance is 0.440 ohms which is pretty darn low.

lets look closer at the kill switch.

Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: aarcuda] #358352
06/26/09 09:43 PM
06/26/09 09:43 PM
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Quote:

yup, a ballast resister is needed. you probably smoked the coil.

http://www.msdpower.com/download/8202.pdf

but you did just install aa master kill switch. how is it wired. the timing seems very suspicious




I don't think so, they even say that their MSD6 or 7 system delivers 12V to the coil, and that a seperate 12V signal is not needed when using and MSD box, and they said it needs a .8ohm resistor if used on a stock POINTS style ignition...mine is a stock ELECTRONIC style ignition...didn't think a resitor was needed, and like I said, 3 years, 3500 miles...

if it did need a resistor, then yea, I guess I cooked it, but kind of funny that it happened just now!

I don't think the kill switch had anything to do with it...just bad timing. I did move the battery all the way to the back, which added about 10 feet to the main positive battery cable by the time I sent it through the switch...but I still had 11.9V at the coil with the key on and not running, I don't THINK my problem is a voltage drop issue...the volt meter in the dash drops to about 9 or 10 volts while cranking the engine...don't know what it dropped to before, never paid attetion, cause it always started!

the other change was to take the main charge from the alternator to the power distribution box on the driver side inner fender (which then sent it back to the battery, and/or powered everything else on the truck) and sent it back to the battery side of the kill switch. nothing else was changed, and it seems to be working just fine, like I said, it cranks at normal speed, shows 11.9V at the coil, ignition box, etc...


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Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: 70Cuda383] #358353
06/26/09 09:48 PM
06/26/09 09:48 PM
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i edited my response after finding the primary resistance of that coil IS so low.

Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: 70Cuda383] #358354
06/26/09 09:54 PM
06/26/09 09:54 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

yup, a ballast resister is needed. you probably smoked the coil.

http://www.msdpower.com/download/8202.pdf

but you did just install aa master kill switch. how is it wired. the timing seems very suspicious




I don't think so, they even say that their MSD6 or 7 system delivers 12V to the coil, and that a seperate 12V signal is not needed when using and MSD box, and they said it needs a .8ohm resistor if used on a stock POINTS style ignition...mine is a stock ELECTRONIC style ignition...didn't think a resitor was needed, and like I said, 3 years, 3500 miles...

if it did need a resistor, then yea, I guess I cooked it, but kind of funny that it happened just now!

I don't think the kill switch had anything to do with it...just bad timing. I did move the battery all the way to the back, which added about 10 feet to the main positive battery cable by the time I sent it through the switch...but I still had 11.9V at the coil with the key on and not running, I don't THINK my problem is a voltage drop issue...the volt meter in the dash drops to about 9 or 10 volts while cranking the engine...don't know what it dropped to before, never paid attetion, cause it always started!

the other change was to take the main charge from the alternator to the power distribution box on the driver side inner fender (which then sent it back to the battery, and/or powered everything else on the truck) and sent it back to the battery side of the kill switch. nothing else was changed, and it seems to be working just fine, like I said, it cranks at normal speed, shows 11.9V at the coil, ignition box, etc...


if the MSD is a capacitive discharge system (which I think it is), the coil gets fired BY THE BOX. both the + and - coil powers comes from the box and not from the ignition feed +12 v) and thats why a ballast resister isnt needed.

But when you use a stock box, the stock (or orange box) only sends the groun d signal to the coil so you need (i believe) a ballast resistor whe nusing the orange box or points

Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: aarcuda] #358355
06/26/09 09:55 PM
06/26/09 09:55 PM
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Yea I saw that. I'll have to see if Ican duplicate the .440 ohms, or if it truely is zero. zero would indicate an internal short in my opinion. I might have had the sensitivity set too high on the voltmeter when it registered a zero.


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Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: 70Cuda383] #358356
06/26/09 10:05 PM
06/26/09 10:05 PM
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Quote:

Yea I saw that. I'll have to see if Ican duplicate the .440 ohms, or if it truely is zero. zero would indicate an internal short in my opinion. I might have had the sensitivity set too high on the voltmeter when it registered a zero.



too high a setting would show 0. but after further checking, the MDS 6 and 7 are CD ignitions. thats why they dont need a ballast. im pretty sure you need ballast resistor with the orange box (look at figure 2 in the instructions- it says so)

Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: aarcuda] #358357
06/26/09 10:11 PM
06/26/09 10:11 PM
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all the more reason to finally get off my butt, solder the red and blue wires back together on the used MSD6AL I bought, and get it onto the truck.

...but, I think I'll fix this problem first, before I throw a questionable, used ignition box on there too!


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Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: 70Cuda383] #358358
06/27/09 01:19 AM
06/27/09 01:19 AM
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when set to the most sensitive setting, my volt meter reads .5 all by itself. Hmm...must be cheap wires or poor calibration

Accross the coil it read 1ohm, minus the .5 of the meter itself, it's coil resistance at .5 I'll say that's in spec with .44!

When I grounded the coil with the key on, and then "broke ground" I did get a very faint spark out of the coil...but it wasn't as big as the spark I got from the ground wire as I removed it from the ground



I'll try starting it tomorrow (when it's not 1am and ok to make noise again!) with the tach unhooked to see if the tach was the problem or not


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Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: 70Cuda383] #358359
06/27/09 01:51 AM
06/27/09 01:51 AM
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Where the coil for the Cuda?? FWIW I haven't seen a report on the test light results...

Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #358360
06/27/09 12:41 PM
06/27/09 12:41 PM
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Quote:

Where the coil for the Cuda?? FWIW I haven't seen a report on the test light results...




I tore the cuda apart 4 years ago, and have since moved 2 and a half times...it's in a box somewhere. My garage is a pile of boxes, car parts, garage equipment and the cuda...by the end of this summer, I should have my 30x40 shop built, and I can finally spread that stuff out and unpack it!

Both the coil and orange box have power in "run" and in "start". I thought maybe I had a bad ground since the battery is now 6 feet further from the engine, and the ground cable is in a new spot, do I used a jumper to ground the box straight to the neg battery post, still no start. Resistance accross the coil is .5 ohms, but shows an open from the positive terminal to the coil wire..,Is this normal? Or should it be .5 like the terminals?

After seeing how weak the spark was last night by grounding the coil and making it fire, I think it's a weak coil...finally burnt out from not running a ballast maybe? Just freak timing!

I think I'm ready to replace it and see what happens, unless I can check something else? (I guess I could get a helping hand and have someone crank the engine while checking the coil spark that way yet too)


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Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: 70Cuda383] #358361
06/27/09 12:59 PM
06/27/09 12:59 PM
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FWIW if you hook up a test light to the negative side of the coil (the side oppasite the 12v hookup) the light should pulse when you crank the engine, typically you can watch the light while cranking the engine with the key so you don't have to track down any help... If it doesn't pulse there won't be a spark... If it does pulse & theres no spark put a coil on it...

Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #358362
06/27/09 06:09 PM
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test light results!

no dice.

wired up the test light to the coil positive, and the coil negative, with the key on, it should light up, right? it doesn't

it doesn't flash while cranking either. tach wire is pulled way out of the way too, so no interferance from that.

I DID have the orange box from the cuda, it was still on the firewall...but hasn't run in 4 years. same results. no light.

so...2 bad boxes?

bad ground to box? I thought I tested that too, by putting a jumper from the case of the box straight to the negative battery terminal, I attached it at the screw that holds it to the inner fender, which touches bare unpainted metal on the box, and I attached it to the blue annodized thing on the front, and it wouldn't start when I tried that.

with a helper (the wife reluctantly gave me about 45 seconds of her time ), I had it all hooked up and pulled a plug, had her crank, and no sparks.

oh yea...I succumbed...brand new coil while she was doing this


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Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #358363
06/27/09 06:11 PM
06/27/09 06:11 PM
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Quote:

FWIW if you hook up a test light to the negative side of the coil (the side oppasite the 12v hookup) the light should pulse when you crank the engine, typically you can watch the light while cranking the engine with the key so you don't have to track down any help... If it doesn't pulse there won't be a spark... If it does pulse & theres no spark put a coil on it...




just re-read this...how do I hook up the test light?

coil installed as normal, put the positive of the light to the negative of the coil, and ground the light to the frame? or unhook the coil and put the light in place of the coil?


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Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: 70Cuda383] #358364
06/27/09 06:13 PM
06/27/09 06:13 PM
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Test light, ground the clamp, hook the probe up to coil negative post...Leave the coil hooked up.. Wish I was closer..

Re: It won't start. My turn! [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #358365
06/27/09 06:45 PM
06/27/09 06:45 PM
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Quote:

Test light, ground the clamp, hook the probe up to coil negative post...Leave the coil hooked up.. Wish I was closer..



ok...but the test light was the last thing I tried.

I was so sure it was the coil, so that was what I did first.

that didn't work, so I had my wife crank with a spark plug pulled, looking for spark. it's either so weak it can't be seen, or not there.

changed the orange box, with the old one from the cuda that worked when I pulled it apart 4 years ago, and still no spark at the spark plug. and I had a jumper from the strap of the plug straight to the battery to ensure good ground there as well...

I'll give the light a shot, but...at this point, I don't know what could be the problem.

the gap at reluctor? ...the magnet and star wheel inside the distributor...is very tight, I didn't measure it but it looks like it's less than the thickness of a sheet of notebook paper.

I don't get it!

if I get a few minutes after dinner, I'll re-try the test light with the coil hooked up properly.


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