Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: can someone explain kickdown? [Re: Dougsmopars] #356986
06/25/09 05:23 PM
06/25/09 05:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
Go ahead and continue to call it "kickdown" linkage, the trans builders (myself included) have made a lot of money rebuilding trashed Torqueflites when the owners omitted the linkage because they were told "It's only for passing gear, you don't need it if you downshift manually".


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: can someone explain kickdown? [Re: 383man] #356987
06/25/09 07:21 PM
06/25/09 07:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,756
London, England
Gavin Offline
top fuel
Gavin  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,756
London, England
Quote:

Some people call it kickdown rod and some call it throttle pressure rod. Dont matter what you call it as it actually controlls what they call "throttle pressure" in the trans and since the throttle pressure is also sent to the pressure regulator it has some control over line pressure also.
To put is in simple terms the rod moves as you step on the gas and the more it moves the more throttle pressure is built up inside the trans. As you give it more throttle pressure it will raise the shift points and vice versa. It works like this.....the trans has shift valves in it that will move from side to side to control upshifts by sending fluid to the right clutch pack or band to make it shift. Now it is an automatic trans as it shifts automaticly. It does that by having the trans pump create line pressure that is sent to a valve that regulates pressure by the output shaft speed called govenor pressure and it also has another pressure called throttle pressure that is controlled by the throttle valve in the trans that is connected to the trans throttle linkage (kickdown). The trans basically shifts by having govenor and throttle pressures work on both sides of the shift valves. Govenor pressure is on one side of the shift valve trying to push the valve over to one side as speed increases to make the trans shift. The other side of the shift valve has throttle pressure that raises as the gas pedal is pushed. When you go fast enough that the gov press overcomes the throttle press it moves the shift valve over shifting the trans. Now if you step on the gas a very small amount the throttle press is low and it wont take much speed to shift the trans. But when you push the gas pedal down far the throttle press is higher and you need more road speed to get the gov press high enough to overcome the throttle press to shift. Thats why if you hit the gas hard the trans shifts at a much faster speed. Now when driving along at say 30 mph in third gear (727 trans) if you floor it the throttle pressure goes very high and it will overcome gov press and push the shift valve the other direction and cause the trans to downshift. Hence the term kickdown came about as it will cause the trans to kickdown to the next lower gear. Make sense ? Ron



good explanation, I learnt something new from that thanks

Re: can someone explain kickdown? [Re: John_Kunkel] #356988
06/25/09 07:28 PM
06/25/09 07:28 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,295
dark side of the moon
D
Dougsmopars Offline
top fuel
Dougsmopars  Offline
top fuel
D

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,295
dark side of the moon
Get a life. The poor guy just wants a little help adjusting the linkage. Who gives a f--- what you want to call it.????? The longer you make the rod the more pressure it will build and the higher the shift points will be. If it is adjusted to short it will shift too soon. You don't want to be in third gear by 5 MPH

Re: can someone explain kickdown? [Re: Dougsmopars] #356989
06/25/09 08:14 PM
06/25/09 08:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,037
hi
sharpie Offline OP
Moparts Linguist
sharpie  Offline OP
Moparts Linguist

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,037
hi
Ron, BigD, others, thanks! I kind of understand. I don't have a three-piece kickdown because I have a 5.9L Magnum (which doesn't use the same throttle/kickdown bracket as the LA engine), so I am using the Lokar cable. Basically, I had adjusted it before so that the throttle pressure lever is almost all the way back at WOT.

So with that starting point, can anyone suggest where to adjust it from there? I am fine on the road, as it's shifting from 1-2 at 2000RPM and 2/3 at 2400RPM (give or take a few. My problem comes on the highway when I throttle it, I don't get it to kick down to first, and when I let off the throttle after passing (in second), I can't get it to upshift back to 3rd.

Re: can someone explain kickdown? [Re: sharpie] #356990
06/26/09 02:21 PM
06/26/09 02:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,601
Hatfield,Pa.
bigD Offline
top fuel
bigD  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,601
Hatfield,Pa.
Shapie,PM Kunkle . He sould be able to get you headed in the right direction,very knowledgeable about TFs and their quirks,D.


2015 Chrysler200s,2008 Charger R/T R&T,1999 Dakota R/T,1999 Viper ACR,1968 Charger R/T.
Re: can someone explain kickdown? [Re: sharpie] #356991
06/26/09 04:07 PM
06/26/09 04:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
Quote:

so I am using the Lokar cable. Basically, I had adjusted it before so that the throttle pressure lever is almost all the way back at WOT.




That's the reason for the late shifts, you need to measure the full travel of the carb lever where the cable attaches and then measure the full travel of the transmission lever where the cable attaches; it usually won't be the same so you need to drill a new hole in the transmission lever so that the full travel of both levers is the same.

There should also be a spring pulling the transmission lever forward.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: can someone explain kickdown? [Re: John_Kunkel] #356992
06/26/09 04:11 PM
06/26/09 04:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,037
hi
sharpie Offline OP
Moparts Linguist
sharpie  Offline OP
Moparts Linguist

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,037
hi
Ah, sounds good. I kind of understand. Right now, a major problem with mine is that the trans cooler lines might (or might not, I'm not positive) be preventing the throttle pressure lever from going all the way back.

Re: can someone explain kickdown? [Re: John_Kunkel] #356993
06/26/09 06:38 PM
06/26/09 06:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 973
South Texas
badchallenger Offline
Fluff Flipper
badchallenger  Offline
Fluff Flipper

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 973
South Texas
Dont want to hijack the post just one question. If you have the stock linkage how do you set it correctly ? Do you set it from the idle position full throttle position or what and how.
Thanks!
Dave

Last edited by badchallenger; 06/26/09 06:42 PM.

U.S. Navy Sea Bees (Retired now) U.S. Army Civil Service NDT
Re: can someone explain kickdown? [Re: badchallenger] #356994
06/26/09 07:05 PM
06/26/09 07:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,883
Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
I Win
stumpy  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,883
Grand Prairie,Texas
Easiest place to start is with the lever on the trans full back at wide open throttle and slack it off from there until you're happy witht the shifts.

Re: can someone explain kickdown? [Re: sharpie] #356995
06/26/09 08:47 PM
06/26/09 08:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 807
Toronto, Canada
D
dirtybee Offline
super stock
dirtybee  Offline
super stock
D

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 807
Toronto, Canada
Quote:

Ah, sounds good. I kind of understand. Right now, a major problem with mine is that the trans cooler lines might (or might not, I'm not positive) be preventing the throttle pressure lever from going all the way back.




thats not good, the most important thing is that the lever on the trans is all the way back at full throttle. the added line pressure holds the clutch packs harder keeping them from slipping and wearing prematurely. you can play around with the ratios to taylor your shift points as long as the trans lever is full back at wot

Re: can someone explain kickdown? [Re: badchallenger] #356996
06/27/09 07:44 AM
06/27/09 07:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 531
Charlotte, NC
Kowal Offline
mopar
Kowal  Offline
mopar

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 531
Charlotte, NC
Quote:

Dont want to hijack the post just one question. If you have the stock linkage how do you set it correctly ? Do you set it from the idle position full throttle position or what and how.
Thanks!
Dave




See attached. First you adjust the from the lever on the trans to the pivot point at the rear, top, of the engine, then you do the threaded rod. Finally, after you have it done, check for interference at WOT. Fine adjustment is as mentioned above...lengthen the rod to delay the shifts.
(be careful of WOT interference)

5317803-kickdownadj.jpg (234 downloads)

'69 Hemi Charger 500, ‘70 U code Challenger R/T
(These and a bunch others at www.dkowal426.com)

P.J. O'Rouke: "The old car ran perfectly, right up until it didn't."
Re: can someone explain kickdown? [Re: John_Kunkel] #356997
06/27/09 12:26 PM
06/27/09 12:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,857
Oregon
hooziewhatsit Offline
master
hooziewhatsit  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,857
Oregon
Quote:


That's the reason for the late shifts, you need to measure the full travel of the carb lever where the cable attaches and then measure the full travel of the transmission lever where the cable attaches; it usually won't be the same so you need to drill a new hole in the transmission lever so that the full travel of both levers is the same.




That I can do. Going from a 2bbl to 4bbl probably changed that ratio.

FYI, to see a bigger version of the two pages above, click here
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/5317803-kickdownadj.jpg

(or, right-click the picture, click on Properties, then copy the URL field into a new internet window)

-Dave


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: can someone explain kickdown? [Re: dirtybee] #356998
06/27/09 02:32 PM
06/27/09 02:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
Quote:


thats not good, the most important thing is that the lever on the trans is all the way back at full throttle.




There is no requirement that the lever be full back at WOT, adjusting it that way usually results in late part throttle upshifts or, possibly, no WOT upshifts.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: can someone explain kickdown? [Re: 69L78Nova] #356999
06/27/09 02:37 PM
06/27/09 02:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,249
Las Vegas
JeffC Offline
pro stock
JeffC  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,249
Las Vegas
Quote:

Its not a kickdown. Thats Chevy nonsense talk. It controls line pressure, shift points, shift firmness, and downshifting





Hey no need to bring chevy into this mess, the equivalent part on a chevy would be a "throttle valve cable".

Re: can someone explain kickdown? [Re: JeffC] #357000
06/27/09 09:07 PM
06/27/09 09:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,270
Missouri
M
MY340 Offline
master
MY340  Offline
master
M

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,270
Missouri
I found out first hand how erratic the tranny shifts will be with out the proper setup. Before I put my custom turnbuckle equipped rod on my Duster it would either shift too early or too late depending on where I had the pivot piece wired back. The car came without a kickdown rod but luckily the fresh tranny wasn't driven much before I got the car.

With the turnbuckle made into the rod I can make fine adjustments very easily and the car shifts great now.

5318936-IMAG0001.jpg (125 downloads)

1970 FE5 Duster 360/904/3.91's SOLD 1973 TB3 SpaceDuster 340/4spd/4.10's SOLD Moparless for now but when the opportunity is right I'll have another one.
Page 2 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1