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Re: Let's talk Fuel Injection. Which is best?
[Re: 68Bullit]
#342929
06/10/09 08:34 PM
06/10/09 08:34 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,522
Ste-Sophie, Quebec, Canada
Wedgeman
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,522
Ste-Sophie, Quebec, Canada
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I just got a good running 5.9l from a '94 truck at the scrap yard....600$ computer included,50 $ alternator, the fuel pump 75$, put it in my '67 Barracuda, few buck more for feul injection lines....and a serpentine strap 45$ ..and turn great !! No watery eyes !
Runs strong too..
Daniel
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Re: Let's talk Fuel Injection. Which is best?
[Re: Wedgeman]
#342930
06/10/09 08:45 PM
06/10/09 08:45 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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I fought with a carb I had for a couple of months, and finally gave up and sent it in to Quick Fuel. What I got back was so close right out of the box its not funny. I dropped 1 jet size on the front, and went up on the front squirter a couple of sizes, and that was it. No dyno needed, no specialty stuff, just one phone call and some shipping costs, and bingo!
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Re: Let's talk Fuel Injection. Which is best?
[Re: Jerry]
#342932
06/11/09 12:45 AM
06/11/09 12:45 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
Western NC
68Bullit
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
Western NC
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Jerry, Thanks for trying to help me out but I don't see any more improvement out of my Holley. Here are the things that I've checked so far. Idle transition slots are good and not over-exposed. Outer air bleeds are .075 No pulling or any tension against the throttle arm whenever the linkage is disconnected. Float levels have been checked and adjusted, then double checked again. I've checked over quite a bit at the advice of AED Specialties, and from the help of the kind folks here on Moparts. My condition with the carb is probably no different than others are having with their carbs, and again, this 750DP runs really good and seems to be tuned very nicely, and is quite streetable for such a performance carb, but I don't wanna smell it anymore. It might be an odor described by others as normal or tolerable, as Holley's are always said to be traditionally rich to begin with, and I've smelled other carbureted cars that smell very similar to mine. That and I just can't get over the nice black smudges of unburnt fuel that it throws down behind the exhaust tips with each cold start up. Carbs are so inefficient, and now that summer is here, I can look forward to all the fuel percolation and hot start issues as last year only now WITH a wooden spacer in place, AND an insulated fuel line. I'm gonna have to see some big improvements to make me want to keep the carb over experimenting with some EFI 
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Re: Let's talk Fuel Injection. Which is best?
[Re: Jerry]
#342934
06/11/09 08:26 AM
06/11/09 08:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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"Carbs are so inefficient, and now that summer is here, I can look forward to all the fuel percolation and hot start issues as last year only now WITH a wooden spacer in place, AND an insulated fuel line".
I live in Md, we have 90+ days all summer. I have never had any of these problems. If you carb is rich it means it isn't adjusted right. I ran a 750DP on a mild 340 and had no problems or the raw gas smell. It's all in how you set it up. And like mentioned above, timing has a lot to do with as does cam specs. I found the 340 ran best w/ 28 squirters, 6.5 PV, 74-80 jets and I can't remember how many turns in or out. I just adjusted until I had the best vacuum reading, then set the timing and re-adjusted for best vacuum. Make sure your secondary flaps are shut...alll the way.
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Re: Let's talk Fuel Injection. Which is best?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#342935
06/11/09 08:40 AM
06/11/09 08:40 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
"Carbs are so inefficient,
As compared to MPFI ? .. ain't that the truth !! ... but until some company comes out with a system that is straight-forward and reasonably priced - not a whole lot people will be going in that direction.
LOTS of people have talked about this topic on the 'net and the HORROR stories about probs that never can be solved and customer-service from some companies that is an equal horror-show after spending many thousands of dollars.....
I say NO THANKS.
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Re: Let's talk Fuel Injection. Which is best?
[Re: dOc !]
#342936
06/11/09 09:17 AM
06/11/09 09:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
"Carbs are so inefficient,
As compared to MPFI ? .. ain't that the truth !! ... but until some company comes out with a system that is straight-forward and reasonably priced - not a whole lot people will be going in that direction.
LOTS of people have talked about this topic on the 'net and the HORROR stories about probs that never can be solved and customer-service from some companies that is an equal horror-show after spending many thousands of dollars.....
I say NO THANKS.
I don't know I managed to get 17mpg in my 340 swinger w/ 3.55's driving around 70-75mph for 30 miles and got 11-12mpg in my S/C'd 440 doing 65-70 w/ 3.91 on a 50 mile trip. Not sure EFI can do much better, and as you state not many "afordable" systems out there, especially if you are over the 350hp mark.
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Re: Let's talk Fuel Injection. Which is best?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#342937
06/11/09 01:24 PM
06/11/09 01:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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You can do a megasquirt for a fair price but the cost adds up quick. Depending on which MS unit you want, you can spend 120-250 on one of the standard controllers, another 200 on a wideband o2(a necessity IMO), then you've got to scrounge up an intake w/ injector bungs or have one converted, fuel injectors, fuel rail, high-psi fuel pump, regulator, probably want to sump your fuel tank, throttle body(pricey unless you can figure something out cheaper), the list goes on. You hit the 1k mark before you even get started. Then it's a diy project so you have to sodder together your efi controller, wire it in, rig up the fuel system, etc, a lot of effort. If you were very thrifty you can put one together for $1000-1500 depending on what you can get and what you can do yourself.
EFI is good and efficient on stock and mild motors, but once cam specs start getting really wild, it has a harder and harder time adapting. Especially a speed density system like megasquirt, which uses manifold vacuum to calculate fuel delivery. For motors with too low/erratic vacuum to work well with this, it has a mode to use throttle position and rpm to calculate fueling. So if you have a cam that's large enough to make tuning a carb difficult, you can't expect it to be as easy as pie to tune in efi either.
If that's what you want, go for it. Just remember it'll never be as cost friendly as your carb and you will have to spend time tweaking with a laptop to get it right.
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Re: Let's talk Fuel Injection. Which is best?
[Re: furious70]
#342940
06/11/09 02:31 PM
06/11/09 02:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Carbs can do anything a injection system can do. Except make quick changes to the weather and elevation.
In fact I bet a carb tuner guy can show significantly better mileage with a carb. This is because most injection systems--from the factory---keep the A/F ratio at 14.4 while acarb guy can tune to 15.5 if he is good at it.
Not true, modern efi, esp. Japanese goes into hyperlean 17:1 conditions these days under certain parameters. You're not likely to get there with your DIY setup however.
wonder what those NASCAR guys are running? I mean they are running almost 200mph on a small small 4bbl. They'd have to be just as lean
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Re: Let's talk Fuel Injection. Which is best?
[Re: fox]
#342941
06/11/09 03:02 PM
06/11/09 03:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Carbs can do anything a injection system can do. Except make quick changes to the weather and elevation.
In fact I bet a carb tuner guy can show significantly better mileage with a carb. This is because most injection systems--from the factory---keep the A/F ratio at 14.4 while acarb guy can tune to 15.5 if he is good at it.
We're not talking factory efi here, and with an aftermarket efi, you can tune the a/f to wherever you want it. With a megasquirt system for example, you can set the desired a/f ratios for all vacuum/rpm combinations and the computer will recalibrate itself on the fly to achieve those results. Definitely much harder to do on a carb, with the big plus of the efi system being it automatically compensates for differences in ambient temp with closed loop wideband o2 feedback. But for your average weekend warrior that sees a few thousand miles per year, do you really benefit that much by that level of control? Only you can answer that one...
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Re: Let's talk Fuel Injection. Which is best?
[Re: Jerry]
#342942
06/15/09 11:52 AM
06/15/09 11:52 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
Western NC
68Bullit
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
Western NC
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Quote:
you didn't mention anything about your timing. i had a similar problem until i adjusted my timing. also how big is the engine and how big is the cam? these will play a big role as to what efi setup you want to go with. also is your holley a double pumper or vacuum secondary?
15 initial and 33 total. 360 non-stroker with stock Edelbrock heads, Comp-Camps XE-268 .224 @.050 and .477 lift. My Holley is a 750DP prepared for my setup by AED Specialties in Virginia.
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But where to find this 'competent' person? Not at a local garage these days - so it's specialty shops only. And they need to be within driving distance, because they really ought to have the car to tune it on... 
