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need some schooling on external oiling on big blocks #340939
06/07/09 09:43 PM
06/07/09 09:43 PM

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Well I am in the planning stages of my 413 build and I need to learn a thing or two on external oiling systems. I was reading a big block book and it made mention of the system. It basically says it's for higher hp motors and it gives you options on where to draw oil from in the pan. I read here on Moparts that depending on the stroke, the interal oil pickup can interfer with the crank especially if you go with a 1/2" tube. I am going to run a stroker crank and a custom oil pan since the cars I've narrowed it down to never had a big block in them. External oiling seems to make the most sense. So my questions are How does it work verse an internal system? How do you set one up? Who makes a system? What happens to the internal pickup, I guess you plug it?

Re: need some schooling on external oiling on big blocks #340940
06/07/09 09:58 PM
06/07/09 09:58 PM
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Florida STAYcation
dOc ! Offline
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Stop ....and take a deep breath.

WHY do you feel you might need ext oiling? ... WHY do you feel you need a PU tube bigger than 3/8" ?

What kind of RPMs are you planning on running? ... what size stroker crank?

Re: need some schooling on external oiling on big blocks #340941
06/07/09 11:37 PM
06/07/09 11:37 PM
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AndyF Offline
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Here is what an external oiling system looks like. This one uses a Milodon pump with dual external lines.

5278825-shortblock.jpg (195 downloads)
Re: need some schooling on external oiling on big blocks [Re: AndyF] #340942
06/07/09 11:48 PM
06/07/09 11:48 PM
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Winnipeg ,Mb. CA.
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Here`s my Barton pump and Charlies pan with single pickup , I changed over to the dual line because I had the extra line around . Ray said it wasn`t necessary to go to the dual .
Chryco

5278857-HEMI20003.jpg (153 downloads)

Gas is fer washin' parts ....Alky`s fer drinkin' ...Nitro`s fer Racin'!
Re: need some schooling on external oiling on big blocks [Re: chryco] #340943
06/08/09 12:31 AM
06/08/09 12:31 AM
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aotearoa
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as chryco says, a single is probably all you'll need if you go external. beware of some of the swinging pickups. i have found that some have a cross sectional area that is smaller than a single static pickup, which is basicly no better than the 3/8 internal.

Re: need some schooling on external oiling on big blocks [Re: rebel] #340944
06/08/09 06:20 AM
06/08/09 06:20 AM
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Long Island, NY
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I'm running a dual line Milodon.
Here is a picture of the pickup in my Charlies pan.


Re: need some schooling on external oiling on big blocks #340945
06/08/09 07:06 AM
06/08/09 07:06 AM
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WA 98043
thecarfarmer Offline
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I bought a pump cover from eclectic innovations; don't know if they're still selling them. I called Muscle motors when I was buying parts, they didn't have them in production at that time, or couldn't answer some question I had (can't remember what the deal was... I need to start smoking pot so I have an EXCUSE for this lousy memory). So I ended up going with what I did. The part looked pretty good overall, but the o-rings on the plugs were too fat and were replaced with correct size ones. I sanded the steel wear plate that the rotors ride against because it was pretty rough. I also took a dremel to a couple of spots where the oil inlet I'm using was in the pump cover and radused the sharp edge where the oil goes around a corner.

No camera, so I couldn't take pics...

Milodon also has several options (dual or single line, and OE type filter or holes to run lines to remote filter). There is/was some gasket (the 'green' gasket) issue on some of 'em. I'm sure someone who's up on the Milodon stuff will post up about it.

I saw the 440 Sourcerers are offering similar stuff now, too.

And you're right, you plug the hole in the block where the original internal pickup went.

Also, if you're doing all this stuff, drilling out the feed holes to the main bearings (9/32" IIRC) is recommended.

A number of guys also recommend grooving the #4 journal on the cam to give full-time oil to the heads, instead of just a squirt every rotation of the cam when the holes line up. I think there's a thread in the tech archives here about big block oiling. There's also a thread on BBD that showed how to do the main web drilling I mentioned. Unfortnately, the pics are gone, but the text is still there.

Oh, by the way, I've heard from a very respected board member here (who ports heads and is involved with a bunch of F.A.S.T. stuff) that all that external oiling stuff isn't really necessary for most applications like mine (6K RPM - 600-ish HP). I went w/ it because a) my engine is going in a '54 pickup with a weird-shaped pan and I didn't feel like fabbing an internal pickup (and I'd have had to do fabbing no matter which way I went), and b) there's an undeniable "bling" factor to having the external oiling line.

Hope this gets the ball rolling... and a
for someone to answer about that pesky milodon oil issue.

-Bill


Seduce the attractive, and charm the rest. ****** 489 C.I.D., roller cam, aftermarket heads, tunnel ram, stock '54 Dodge rear axle assembly: which of these doesn't belong?
Re: need some schooling on external oiling on big blocks [Re: dOc !] #340946
06/08/09 09:59 AM
06/08/09 09:59 AM

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Quote:

Stop ....and take a deep breath.

WHY do you feel you might need ext oiling? ... WHY do you feel you need a PU tube bigger than 3/8" ?

What kind of RPMs are you planning on running? ... what size stroker crank?




1. Chances are that there will not be a pan and pickup that will fit what I drop it in, which is going to most likey be a Packard. So I'll probably have to make a pan.

2. 4.500" Stroke

3. 6000 RPM

4. 560-580 Motor, 750+ on giggle gas. Will probably go with a better intake, heads, & cam down the road for 650+ on motor. So I want to do all the block work and oiling improvents now so it's easier work down the road when I decide to take it up a notch.

Last edited by RTRick; 06/08/09 10:00 AM.
Re: need some schooling on external oiling on big blocks [Re: thecarfarmer] #340947
06/08/09 10:19 AM
06/08/09 10:19 AM

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Anonymous OP
Unregistered
Anonymous OP
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Quote:

I bought a pump cover from eclectic innovations; don't know if they're still selling them. I called Muscle motors when I was buying parts, they didn't have them in production at that time, or couldn't answer some question I had (can't remember what the deal was... I need to start smoking pot so I have an EXCUSE for this lousy memory). So I ended up going with what I did. The part looked pretty good overall, but the o-rings on the plugs were too fat and were replaced with correct size ones. I sanded the steel wear plate that the rotors ride against because it was pretty rough. I also took a dremel to a couple of spots where the oil inlet I'm using was in the pump cover and radused the sharp edge where the oil goes around a corner.

No camera, so I couldn't take pics...

Milodon also has several options (dual or single line, and OE type filter or holes to run lines to remote filter). There is/was some gasket (the 'green' gasket) issue on some of 'em. I'm sure someone who's up on the Milodon stuff will post up about it.

I saw the 440 Sourcerers are offering similar stuff now, too.

And you're right, you plug the hole in the block where the original internal pickup went.

Also, if you're doing all this stuff, drilling out the feed holes to the main bearings (9/32" IIRC) is recommended.

A number of guys also recommend grooving the #4 journal on the cam to give full-time oil to the heads, instead of just a squirt every rotation of the cam when the holes line up. I think there's a thread in the tech archives here about big block oiling. There's also a thread on BBD that showed how to do the main web drilling I mentioned. Unfortnately, the pics are gone, but the text is still there.

Oh, by the way, I've heard from a very respected board member here (who ports heads and is involved with a bunch of F.A.S.T. stuff) that all that external oiling stuff isn't really necessary for most applications like mine (6K RPM - 600-ish HP). I went w/ it because a) my engine is going in a '54 pickup with a weird-shaped pan and I didn't feel like fabbing an internal pickup (and I'd have had to do fabbing no matter which way I went), and b) there's an undeniable "bling" factor to having the external oiling line.

Hope this gets the ball rolling... and a
for someone to answer about that pesky milodon oil issue.

-Bill




I read about the reaming in the book. I was planning on doing that this weekend along with removing all the casting flash.







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