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Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder #340045
06/06/09 09:57 PM
06/06/09 09:57 PM
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Western Colorado
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340Scamp Offline OP
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My brother bought a '06 hemi ram and I noticed it has 16 spark plugs in it was wondering why. THANKS!

Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: 340Scamp] #340046
06/06/09 10:07 PM
06/06/09 10:07 PM
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It's a dry heat
gtx6970 Offline
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helps it pass emission standards, newer 4.7's have them as well

Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: gtx6970] #340047
06/07/09 08:40 AM
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340Scamp Offline OP
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Thanks a lot. Appreciated

Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: 340Scamp] #340048
06/07/09 09:35 AM
06/07/09 09:35 AM
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moper Offline
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They've been doing it for years. Nissan 2.4L had it in the 80s. My impression is they need the burn time of the mixture to be as fast as possible while still being a controlled burn, so they make sure the mixture is squished and moved during hte last few degrees of the compression stroke, then they light it from opposite ends so it takes 1/2 the time with less loss of efficiency.


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: moper] #340049
06/07/09 11:42 AM
06/07/09 11:42 AM
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Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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The way I heard it was one plug was firing to light the mix and the other fires during the exhaust stroke to clean it up for emissions...?

Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: 340Scamp] #340050
06/07/09 01:58 PM
06/07/09 01:58 PM
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DuPont, Washington
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DZJim Offline
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Don't know the science behind it, but it makes a big difference. Light aircraft engines are mostly horzontal opposed "flat" fours and sixes, most designs dating back to the late 30's. They mostly use dual magnetos and dual sparkplugs. A pretakeoff check is to check the ignitions one at a time, looking for excessive RPM drop when going from single igntion to dual igniton, indicating a fouled plug or worse. Once was taking off one morning from a gravel bar alongside a river in Alaska. No good place to do a power runup, so just did a rough mag check while taxiing. Real slow takeoff and acceleration, had to turn upriver and not doing so good. Was running on one mag. Improved considerably when I switched the other mag in. Work swiftly; not hastily! My $0.02

Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: DZJim] #340051
06/07/09 02:58 PM
06/07/09 02:58 PM
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Airplanes require two independantly powered ignition systems for safety reasons, nothing more. If your plane ran better when you switched the other mag in then your first mag setup has problems. Not that mags are all that great an ignition system.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: Supercuda] #340052
06/07/09 08:25 PM
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Quote:

Airplanes require two independantly powered ignition systems for safety reasons, nothing more. If your plane ran better when you switched the other mag in then your first mag setup has problems. Not that mags are all that great an ignition system.




Hmmm...yeah; I screwed up my first post. I inadvertently took off running on one magneto. You use both magnetos; switching each off in turn for the pretakeoff check. When I selected both "on" was when I picked up that little bit extra power.

I suppose safety is the reason behind the independent self-powered ignitions for airplane recip engines, but its a fact that you get a 50-75 RPM drop when switching one mag off during a runup.

Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: DZJim] #340053
06/07/09 09:01 PM
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Cary, NC
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The second is a "wasted spark". It fires 1/2 degree after the primary.


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Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: gtx6970] #340054
06/07/09 09:35 PM
06/07/09 09:35 PM
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Quote:

helps it pass emission standards, newer 4.7's have them as well




IIRC, Race 426 Hemi's had dual plugs by the 70's... Must help with a better burn, which would help power and emissions.


Scott B. "I'm a self-made man... I started with nothing, and I still have most of it!" 68 360 rusty B'cuda 'vert (GO Fish)13.59@ 98.72 mph 69 340 GTS stock 14.18@ 95.60 mph 01 5.9L Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4x4 01 3.5L 300M 16.23@ 86.97 mph
Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: GO_Fish] #340055
06/07/09 11:08 PM
06/07/09 11:08 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

helps it pass emission standards, newer 4.7's have them as well




IIRC, Race 426 Hemi's had dual plugs by the 70's... Must help with a better burn, which would help power and emissions.





Back when they did emission testing in Prostock and top fuel classes.





























































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Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: GO_Fish] #340056
06/07/09 11:21 PM
06/07/09 11:21 PM
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Oregon
hooziewhatsit Online content
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I know in rotary engines, since the combustion chamber is fairly long and flat, it would take too long for the fire from one plug to fill/burn the entire chamber, so they have two plugs to speed up the burn.

Could be something similar with the Hemi's? Either way, there's probably a list of benefits of using two plugs


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Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: hooziewhatsit] #340057
06/07/09 11:44 PM
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The Nissan (Datsun back then) called their's the NapZ. It was a DOHC Hemi IIRC.


"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: Rug_Trucker] #340058
06/09/09 09:13 PM
06/09/09 09:13 PM
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340Scamp Offline OP
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Thanks everyone

Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: 340Scamp] #340059
06/11/09 10:19 AM
06/11/09 10:19 AM
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360view Offline
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technically,
the dual sparkplugs allow less ignition timing before top dead center,
which reduces the 'wrong direction' pressure on the piston (called 'negative work')
and leads to slightly better torque and less fuel consumption

in one of the Chrysler histories there was an account of how Chrysler and Daimler engineers got together after the merger and shared previously confidential twin sparkplug research... and both sides admitted that they learned some new effects they had not known before

the gains are real but not large, in the 1 to 3% range

by the way,
the Datsun NapZ was inspired by the original Chrysler Hemi,
then in a turn around,
the NapZ good emissions performance as published in a SAE paper was used to argue successfully for the modern 5.7 Hemi V8

Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: 360view] #340060
06/11/09 02:15 PM
06/11/09 02:15 PM
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Hiram, Georgia
474218 Offline
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My 1971 250cc single cylinder 2 stroke CZ motocross motor cycle had two plugs per cylinder and two coils.

Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: 474218] #340061
06/11/09 03:56 PM
06/11/09 03:56 PM
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S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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Wow, that's quite a mixed bag of responses.

Anyone want to take a guess what the power difference is between waste spark and firing both plugs in all 8 at the same time, on an otherwise stock 5.7?

Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: ZIPPY] #340062
06/11/09 09:02 PM
06/11/09 09:02 PM
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GA
roadrunninMark Offline
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6.7 jigawatts?

Hey DZ, you also have 2 plugs/mags a cylinder in ur prop so you dont foul a plug and lose the engine since you are usually taking off and landing with full rich (unless high elevation). I am sure when you've done your run ups before you ran into a semi fouled plug, then had to run up and lean the mixture, let run for a little till it cleaned up, then did your mag checks again. Now if only cars could have that leaning knob to coax a few more miles a gallon.

Mark

Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: ZIPPY] #340063
06/12/09 12:47 AM
06/12/09 12:47 AM
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Quote:

Wow, that's quite a mixed bag of responses.

Anyone want to take a guess what the power difference is between waste spark and firing both plugs in all 8 at the same time, on an otherwise stock 5.7?




Well? How to keep the Rug_Trucker in suspense!

Re: Why do HEMI Rams have two spark plugs per cylinder [Re: Rug_Trucker] #340064
06/16/09 01:07 PM
06/16/09 01:07 PM
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S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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3hp advantage for waste spark vs firing both at the same time. This is a real, measured number not theoretical.







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