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Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? #331164
05/27/09 11:47 PM
05/27/09 11:47 PM
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NW Pa.
KD800X Offline OP
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We has a misshap with a broken Pinion Yoke in Columbus. We took the Transmission apart and the Sprag looked ok but I think we should change it never the less. I was looking in the A&A Book but it looks like all of there Sprags are bolt in. Does anyone make a good non bolt in sprag?

Thanks

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: KD800X] #331165
05/28/09 12:09 AM
05/28/09 12:09 AM
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if you remove the original sprag you want to use a bolt in as nothing fits as good as the first time it was installed at the factory . get the A+A ultimate sprag , anything else is wasting your money .

But if the race is tight inthe case and not all galled up I would just replace the rollers and springs .

is this a street car , race car , autio VB or manual ?

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: JohnRR] #331166
05/28/09 12:14 AM
05/28/09 12:14 AM
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what makes an ultimate sprag better?

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: Quicksilver440] #331167
05/28/09 12:24 AM
05/28/09 12:24 AM
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Quote:

what makes an ultimate sprag better?




It has more rollers and springs and makes it virtually impossible for the rollers to roll over , the rollers are a little smaller in size but there are more of them .

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: JohnRR] #331168
05/28/09 12:35 AM
05/28/09 12:35 AM
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KD800X Offline OP
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Quote:

if you remove the original sprag you want to use a bolt in as nothing fits as good as the first time it was installed at the factory . get the A+A ultimate sprag , anything else is wasting your money .

But if the race is tight inthe case and not all galled up I would just replace the rollers and springs .

is this a street car , race car , autio VB or manual ?





It's a Race Car 9.80's Hemi Coronet. We really don't want to get into drilling the case for the bolt in. The guy doing our Transmission said the Sprag looked good, I just felt that while we have it apart we might as well put a new one in. If changing the Springs and Rollers will help than thats is an idea.

Thanks

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: KD800X] #331169
05/28/09 01:26 AM
05/28/09 01:26 AM
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press in an Ultimate sprag, just don't drill & bolt it. but since you're changing it you should go the full monte & do it right. as said earlier, nothing fits as good as the original. drilling 6 holes is great insurance.

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: KD800X] #331170
05/28/09 02:00 AM
05/28/09 02:00 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

if you remove the original sprag you want to use a bolt in as nothing fits as good as the first time it was installed at the factory . get the A+A ultimate sprag , anything else is wasting your money .

But if the race is tight inthe case and not all galled up I would just replace the rollers and springs .

is this a street car , race car , autio VB or manual ?





It's a Race Car 9.80's Hemi Coronet. We really don't want to get into drilling the case for the bolt in. The guy doing our Transmission said the Sprag looked good, I just felt that while we have it apart we might as well put a new one in. If changing the Springs and Rollers will help than thats is an idea.

Thanks




the regular bolt in doesnt require any drilling at all the ultimate needs 2 holes drilled. if you dont have any kinda bolt in sprag at all you are racing a time bomb! sprag failure is the reason 727 grenade


67 Coronet 383 hogged out 906's 727 430 dana best 10.48 @126.80 1.47 60 on fogger same car pump gas 605 wedge 9.98 @ 138.42 1.50 60 on wore out 9 inch radial slick ss springs and frame connectors its got more in it!!! 72 Newport 2 door 400 727 85 Ram 440 4 speed O/D 3.54 dana
Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: KD800X] #331171
05/28/09 02:31 AM
05/28/09 02:31 AM
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You realy should go with the bolt in. Do a srarch in mopar action I belive and see what happens when a 727 lets go it's like a bomb going off under the car when the sprag takes a dump and it will sooner or later.
You see it's not a question of will it go away it will, it's when, and for that thing it's always the wrong time.
Always take the side of safty bolt in is the only way to go.

JoWeTu_6

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: JoWeTu_6] #331172
05/28/09 04:56 AM
05/28/09 04:56 AM
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DJVCuda Offline
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Mopar Enthusiast Article Torqueflite Built Right

This might answer alot of your questions - I think it's about 6-8 pages long

Are you running a stock drum too?

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: DJVCuda] #331173
05/28/09 07:12 AM
05/28/09 07:12 AM

A
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A



KEVIN,i just took my 727 apart,my aluminum drum was worn alittle, i am replacing my drum with a billet steel one and while my drum is apart i am changing to a BOLT IN SPRAG, for $175.00 its a no brainer.
without a bolt in sprag, its a matter of time before that tranny lets loose and goes through your floor cutting off dads leg.
with the power you making now, you have to really upgrade your parts correctly to avoid an accident that can be prevented, build it right the 1st time, it will save you money and aggravation later on.

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? #331174
05/28/09 08:32 AM
05/28/09 08:32 AM
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B G Racing Offline
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We usually only replace the springs and rollers,about $25.We do use the bolt in overrunning clutch if there is damage to the the inner or outer support rings.The bolts that hold the clutch(sprag) in place do nothing to stop the it from "exploding" If it is going to happen(usually from abuse or incorrect use or other drive line breakage)The new A&A and other "Super Sprages" with more springs and rollers may increase the life of the unit.If your set on replacing it,I would recommend A&A,Rick is a great guy and supports the site and Mopar racers.

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: KD800X] #331175
05/28/09 08:41 AM
05/28/09 08:41 AM
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It's a Race Car 9.80's Hemi Coronet. We really don't want to get into drilling the case for the bolt in. The guy doing our Transmission said the Sprag looked good, I just felt that while we have it apart we might as well put a new one in. If changing the Springs and Rollers will help than thats is an idea.

Thanks



You just use the 4 existing holes for the rear support (changing the bolts long enough for the sprag and not bother drilling the holes for the extra twp bolts.

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: B G Racing] #331176
05/28/09 08:58 AM
05/28/09 08:58 AM
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Quote:

We usually only replace the springs and rollers,about $25.We do use the bolt in overrunning clutch if there is damage to the the inner or outer support rings.The bolts that hold the clutch(sprag) in place do nothing to stop the it from "exploding" If it is going to happen(usually from abuse or incorrect use or other drive line breakage)




FINALLY!!! A voice of reason!

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: J_BODY] #331177
05/28/09 09:09 AM
05/28/09 09:09 AM
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Kissimmee Fl.
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Quote:

Quote:

We usually only replace the springs and rollers,about $25.We do use the bolt in overrunning clutch if there is damage to the the inner or outer support rings.The bolts that hold the clutch(sprag) in place do nothing to stop the it from "exploding" If it is going to happen(usually from abuse or incorrect use or other drive line breakage)




FINALLY!!! A voice of reason!




this is absolutly correct and for info the ultimate sprag from Coan uses the 4 holes in the case with nice shoulder bolts.


70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake

best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: dusturbd340W5] #331178
05/28/09 09:57 AM
05/28/09 09:57 AM
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B G Racing Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

We usually only replace the springs and rollers,about $25.We do use the bolt in overrunning clutch if there is damage to the the inner or outer support rings.The bolts that hold the clutch(sprag) in place do nothing to stop the it from "exploding" If it is going to happen(usually from abuse or incorrect use or other drive line breakage)




FINALLY!!! A voice of reason!




this is absolutly correct and for info the ultimate sprag from Coan uses the 4 holes in the case with nice shoulder bolts.


The only problem with the one that Coan uses is the shouldered bolt is necked down to a 1/4 thread and fastener and the srings and rollers are so small that I always find broken springs and flat rollers.I still preferr the stock style large springs and rollers.

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: B G Racing] #331179
05/28/09 10:17 AM
05/28/09 10:17 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

We usually only replace the springs and rollers,about $25.We do use the bolt in overrunning clutch if there is damage to the the inner or outer support rings.The bolts that hold the clutch(sprag) in place do nothing to stop the it from "exploding" If it is going to happen(usually from abuse or incorrect use or other drive line breakage)




FINALLY!!! A voice of reason!




this is absolutly correct and for info the ultimate sprag from Coan uses the 4 holes in the case with nice shoulder bolts.


The only problem with the one that Coan uses is the shouldered bolt is necked down to a 1/4 thread and fastener and the srings and rollers are so small that I always find broken springs and flat rollers.I still preferr the stock style large springs and rollers.




Thats interesting because the sprag they use is a low/rev sprag from a ford C-6/E40d trans and we dont see them fail very offten


70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake

best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: KD800X] #331180
05/28/09 10:33 AM
05/28/09 10:33 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

if you remove the original sprag you want to use a bolt in as nothing fits as good as the first time it was installed at the factory . get the A+A ultimate sprag , anything else is wasting your money .

But if the race is tight inthe case and not all galled up I would just replace the rollers and springs .

is this a street car , race car , autio VB or manual ?





It's a Race Car 9.80's Hemi Coronet. We really don't want to get into drilling the case for the bolt in. The guy doing our Transmission said the Sprag looked good, I just felt that while we have it apart we might as well put a new one in. If changing the Springs and Rollers will help than thats is an idea.

Thanks




Since it's a drag car I wouldn't change out the orignal unless it's damaged , if you want to change it anyway use the A+A. You don't really need to drill for the 2 extra bolts, later 727's have a 6 bolt rear support in that case you don't have to do much drilling if that's the case you have. BUT if you just change the springs and rollers buy the A+A billet drum, or go with an Alum drum, either way if the srag fails you won't end up with the trans coming thru the floor .

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: dusturbd340W5] #331181
05/28/09 10:39 AM
05/28/09 10:39 AM
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dIc dOc Deity ! Offline
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I cast my vote for the OEM stuff. Those parts have worked for nearly 50 years ...and even under the abuse of a Clutch-flite.

Now when a company comes out with a sprag and will GUARANTEE it .....

THEN ...I might change-my-mind.

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #331182
05/28/09 10:45 AM
05/28/09 10:45 AM
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I found this link in a post by John_Kunkel
You all should take a look at it, it's self explanatory.

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/563387085NzMVcm

JoWeTu_6

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: JohnRR] #331183
05/28/09 10:52 AM
05/28/09 10:52 AM
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If you don't have a billet drum in it now get one.

Don't let this happen to you.





Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: JoWeTu_6] #331184
05/28/09 10:52 AM
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Dont forget PLUM BAD's foot....


Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: JoWeTu_6] #331185
05/28/09 10:56 AM
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Those pics are scarey .... but are you suggesting that a bolt-in-sprag from company A, B or C will prevent this ?

If so ...I will buy THREE of those sprags for 200$ each.

But ...until these companies will GUARANTEE that their sprag will not fail ...the only thing that I know-of that will prevent such a fireball-explosion .....

..... is an aluminum front drum.

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: DJVCuda] #331186
05/28/09 10:58 AM
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those STOCK sprags worked well ...

DOC D no one is going to GUARANTEE ANYTHING against failure because once one happens to FAIL the drooling idiot buying based on MARKETING HYPE is going to SUE ...

NOTHING IS BULLETPROOF , the ONLY way to stop a front drum explosion is to REPLACE the STOCK FRONT DRUM ...

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #331187
05/28/09 11:00 AM
05/28/09 11:00 AM
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WILD BILL Offline
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No replacement sprag will prevent this.


Only a LBA VB or a billet (steel or alum) drum will.

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: JohnRR] #331188
05/28/09 11:04 AM
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NOTHING IS BULLETPROOF , the ONLY way to stop a front drum explosion is to REPLACE the STOCK FRONT DRUM ...

... just what I said .... a couple of minutes ago.

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #331189
05/28/09 11:10 AM
05/28/09 11:10 AM
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WILD BILL Offline
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Quote:



NOTHING IS BULLETPROOF , the ONLY way to stop a front drum explosion is to REPLACE the STOCK FRONT DRUM ...

... just what I said .... a couple of minutes ago.




WHAT THE HELL


You mean you two acctually agree on something










Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: WILD BILL] #331190
05/28/09 11:11 AM
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Yeah ...isn't that special ?

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #331191
05/28/09 11:13 AM
05/28/09 11:13 AM
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Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #331192
05/28/09 12:25 PM
05/28/09 12:25 PM
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Quote:



NOTHING IS BULLETPROOF , the ONLY way to stop a front drum explosion is to REPLACE the STOCK FRONT DRUM ...

... just what I said .... a couple of minutes ago.




No , you said that the ONLY way to prevent it is to use an ALUMINUM DRUM , a billet steel drum will NOT explode either .

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: JohnRR] #331193
05/28/09 01:55 PM
05/28/09 01:55 PM
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B G Racing Offline
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Fight nice,group hug

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: B G Racing] #331194
05/28/09 03:54 PM
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I new it had to be a fluke

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: WILD BILL] #331195
05/28/09 04:10 PM
05/28/09 04:10 PM
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B G Racing Offline
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If someone can logically explain how a bolt in clutch(spragg) will prevent a trans explosion,then i will install them in all transmissions. When the clutch fails it is because the chain of events that brought on the failure could not be stopped soon enough.It's the drum failure that opens up the case and creates all the carnage.If the clutch breaks and the engine rpm is shut down immediately there is no explosion.

Last edited by B G Racing; 05/28/09 04:38 PM.
Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: B G Racing] #331196
05/28/09 04:30 PM
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Quote:

If someone can logically explain how a bolt in clutch(spragg) will prevent a trans explosion,then i will install them in all transmissions.




Me tooooo ! .....

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #331197
05/28/09 05:42 PM
05/28/09 05:42 PM
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KD800X Offline OP
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Wow this topic is like the discussion about Pinion Angles

First off, thanks for all of your input, as usual you have been a big help.
It may sound funny but I agree with all of you.
A little bit of history, this transmission does have an aluminum A&A Drum so that is not an issue.
But before we had the transmission, it belonged to Rod Gartin who was running it in a 23T with a 1000hp wedge in front of it. The car was going 7.40s with 1.0 60'. This all with the Stock sprag and a stock drum that had been lighten by Christian and Starky (for you Columbus boys)
So I believe that the stock sprag can handle the horse power. Heck if it wasn't for the pinion breaking we wouldn't be thinking twice about it.

But since it is apart and we have doubt in the back of our minds that the sprag could be hurt we don't want to take any chances, So we are going to put a new A&A Ultimate Sprag in along with a 5 pinion front planetary since we we're still running the stock planetary and it showed signs of going away on us.

Thanks again for all of your help, I really appreciate your help with this delema.

On another note....WHO WANTS TO TALK ABOUT PINION ANGLES

Re: Who makes a Good Non Bolt in Sprag for 727? [Re: KD800X] #331198
05/28/09 05:48 PM
05/28/09 05:48 PM
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Quote:


On another note....WHO WANTS TO TALK ABOUT PINION ANGLES





Are they set different on an 8 3/4 then a Dana 60

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